Full House Chain???

[Marky Mark]

As I have read all this there are a few things that we don't know. None of us except a few who live in the area where all these guys hang. Why is there such bad blood between Art, Dennis and Tom.Can anyone anwser that. Only they know what has hapened. But to ban them for there actions I can't see that.
I said this before did they come to the site with Guns a blazen yep but maybe that's the drive they have since we don't know the whole story. AND NEVER WILL. This is the internet and anything goes, take it all with a grain of salt and you'll be fine. But these guys have the know how, have they shared it yes I have spoken to them about chain, how to cut faster and Dennis has explained alot to me.
We all have read Art's posts and he grown on us all, but like all high achievers there comes compitition and they are all in a class of there own. I have taken note that there are alot of readers on the posts that Tom and Dennis are on. Everytime when I look who's one line there are always people reading those posts. I have also noticed people that were posting before thunder rolled in now there gone WHY? I see they are reading the posts but never adding any input. I made a post last week and it was pulled was I hard on some people. I know 6 months ago they knew it all.

Dennis G should he be moderating all this... He won't give them a fair shake. He's friends with Art.. Let em be in time they will mellow like a fine wine and who knows we all might get along. But the world has gotten smaller due to the internet and we must all take a back seat and enjoy it all. There's always the ingnore button.

 

[D]

Yeah, it would be good to know many of the points you make Marky.

 

[Dennis]

Mark, you make a very good point..noone but themselves know why there is bad blood...so why bring it to an open forum and disrupt it(the forum)? That is not what these forums are for....they are for sharing, learning, and having fun.

I had given Tom a second chance, against many members wishes, but the email I received closed the deal. I am a friend of Arts, and always will be....but that has nothing to do with the way that this situation was handled...I spoke with Darin, and the other moderators on many occasions in regards to the situation, and chose the (IMO) appropriate path.

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

Sharing, learning, and having fun!

Sharing a video for all to see.

Learning that Tom has a fast chain.

Having fun, you bet!

Dennis, when I put some more video on the site, let's hope you practice what you preach!

Marky, I got your points. Jokers and bwalker your points were well taken also.

Dennis

 

[sedanman]

Huh? What happened? I nod off for 2 minutes and the world goes to h@ll!
When is someone gonna buck a PIANO in half? I might just have a saw on the way to do it! If I can make it to Clearwater this year will there be a piano? We can do a full house/fullcomp/semi skip comparo using my powerhead if we want..............note, soundboard MUST be removed!

 

[D]

Well Dennis C, if all is what you say above is true, no body will have a problem. That is what the site is designed for.

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

A Race Chain Story

Here's an old picture of Jim Taylor, Tom Fales, and Art Martin at a show in Willits, CA. Tom just won the Hot Saw race beating Jim. Jim has been one of the best competitors and hot-sawyers on the west coast for years. He also builds some of the best handsaws in the world to this day. But on this day, Jim and Art both wanted a good look at Tom's chain and motor after Tom cut in the 6's and Jim cut in the 8's. Five or six years later, Art started building 3/8's chain. Jim also tried to help Art build a handsaw, but without much luck. The top chain builders in the country at that time were Jack Stewart, Hollis Baughman, and Roy Booth Sr. The chain race to win was always the World Championships at Albany, Oregon, and these men were the men to beat there. To my knowledge Art Martin never competed there, but I have, and came close, but never did win the stock saw championship. I think Hollis Baughman, over the years, has won the most chain races, both regional and World Championship by far, and still wins to this day. This sixty-plus year old man smoked everyone in the stocksaw chain race at the American Lumberjack Show in Orofino, Idaho in September, 2003 proving he still is an accomplished chain builder and saw racer. Hollis' stiffest competition these days comes from the file of Tom Fales, Jr of Fort Bragg, the young man in the attached picture. Tom also files for many of the TimberSports Series competitors with winning results! There are other good chain builders around today, like Adrian James, Melvin Lentz, and others from eastern Canada and the U.S. More pictures, videos and stories to come, for all to enjoy. Dennis

 

[Art Martin]

I haven’t disappeared completely but as Paul Harvey would say, “this is the rest of the story”. I finally decided that someone has fed Dennis Cahoon too much misinformation about me. Dennis does not know me or anything about my past competition years except what he has been told by that same person or persons. I have never had any dealings with Dennis Cahoon and only he can answer what his beef is with me. I don’t know. I do know why Tommy hates me and it is because I helped my friend, Gary Richards, a railroad man not a logger, who beat Tommy at the Paul Bunyan Day Logging Show in Fort Bragg. Gary went on to win the All Around Logger title more often than anyone else who competed in the Fort Bragg Logging Show.

The event that Dennis is referring to was a logging show that I attended as a guest of Rick Sagan, now a Fire Captain with the Department of Forestry in Willits, California. Rick asked to come over and give him some pointers on putting on the show since he had competed in Fort Bragg during the times I was in charge of that show. He also won the “All Around Champion” in Fort Bragg once or twice. I was not interested in seeing Tommy’s chain at that time because I was retired from competition. I moved from Fort Bragg to Sacramento, California in 1987. I occasionally visited the show in Fort Bragg in the’90s and every time Tommy would see me talking with some of my old friends and competitors, he would come skipping over to me with his chain and say, “Art do you think this chain will cut?” I would say, “Sure, it looks good.” He would then say “Oh goody” and skip back to put his chain on his saw. I didn’t start sharpening 3/8” chain seriously until I met the Rupleys and then only because that is what they were using in the shows in Placerville, California. The Fort Bragg show always used .404” pitch chain on the three saws that the dealers donated, at least during the time I was involved with the show. The big saw class usually used ½” pitch chain.

I did compete in the Willits in 1978 and won the “All Around Logging” trophy that year.

I went to Australia in 1979 and learned to grind axes and make “M” tooth saws. When I returned, Jim Taylor taught me how to anneal and temper the teeth. I made an “M” tooth saw and with my partner, Charlie Foster, we won the 1981 California Lumberjack Association State Championship trophy, beating out Roland and Brad Eslinger for the most points in that year at sanctioned shows.

The California Lumberjack Association was formed in the late 1960s. It was an idea of Bill Crauser, a Lutheran Minister, in Pleasanton, California. He had an organizational meeting in his home there. Our main purpose was to standardize the rules so that they were same at all shows in California. Jim Taylor nominated me for President of this Association and I served for two years. I believe we had over 80 members during that time. We allowed competitors from Oregon to become members also. One of the most notable members was John Miller from Roseburg, Oregon.

I also sharpened crosscut saws for Mark Echeberry, renowned Stihl series competitor on ESPN, who used them in Australia and did well with them. At the Redwood Regional Logging Show in Ukiah, California, in the big chainsaw event, I won Roy Booth, Sr. the three-time winner of the Homelite Tournament of the Kings. Also at that show, my crossing cutting partner was none other than Tom Fales, Sr.

Art Martin

 

[sedanman]

Art, You are a true gentleman! Please stick around. Many here can learn from you, both technical issues and civility.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Art, if you would please inject some of your knowledge to the topic of the making of full house chain. Seems this thread has become a chatroom.

 

[ricksvar]

Art,

May I say to you,their are men and their are gentlemen or men with tact and judgement who know how to handle themselves under difficult circumstances.I think you gain your respect not because you ask for or demand it,but because you deserve it.

Thank you for your comments SIR,
Rick

 

[jokers]

Hi Art,

Thanks for sharing some of your side of this ensuing saga. Since the unfortunate fact is that most of us don`t know you personally and haven`t lived in your area, it can be difficult to seperate fact from fiction. While the actions and words of your more vocal supporters could possibly be considered noble at some level, these rebuttals have done little or nothing to actually challenge the allegations against you, and seemed at times more like bickering amongst children.

I agree with the others that you have presented a good lesson in civility, for all of us.

Russ

 

[JimL]

Great post!

Now we have the whole story

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

Art how've you been? The guys on the site should thank me, for bringing you out of your spider hole. Now, as far as me misinforming the site, I posted a picture that has a date at the bottom of 1990, and said that you started making 3/8 chain five or six years later. You state that you started making 3/8 chain for the Rupley's for the Placerville shows, those started about 1995 or 96, so there's no dispute or misinformation there. No big deal! Anyway, why would you be upset with me for saying that, or for saying you never competed in the World Championships at Albany, Oregon. It's nothing you haven't said yourself, in an old post.
I personally have seen your handsaw cut, with Aaron and Mike Morrow pulling it. Sorry, it didn't do very well, and there is no way in hell it would ever beat one of Jim's saws, so that's why I said that.
As far as your problems with Tom Fales or the Fort Bragg show, that old subject was not even brought up in my post, but I do find it hard to believe that Tom Fales ever "skipped" away from you saying, "Oh Goody".
What I'm doing now is posting some pictures and videos and telling a story for all to enjoy. That definately is you and Jim looking at Tom's saw and chain after he won the race! Again no big deal! That picture shouldn't be offensive; any smart chain builder would want a look at the winning chain and saw. You'd have to be stupid not to want a peek at it. I'm getting some software for my computer to post video, and when I do I hope you'll watch the videos and enjoy my stories. I'll even show you when Melvin Lentz beats me in the hot saw by .23 at Albany. So what I'm trying to say is chill out Art, and try to enjoy without being so negative, or paranoid. Some people will like my videos and some may not, but that's ok, because they're meant for sharing, learning, and having fun! Dennis

 

[Art Martin]

Dennis,
I may be an old cull in your eyes but I am still moving around with my original body parts.
As far as bringing me out of my spider hole, all I can say is that I chose not continue the character assassination and personal bashing. To save the integrity of the Arboristsite from this unfounded criticism, which is without merit and detrimental to the purpose of this site, I thought that it was best to stay out of the fracas.
I have noticed that you are very selective with the information that you offer and the different times that you post and dwell on. This doesn’t show the full picture.
I haven’t been negative or paranoid about anything. Why should I be? I just post the facts as I see them and share my experience. If someone doesn’t agree with the information I’ve submitted, then please show me where I’ve erred. I will stand corrected. Everyone makes mistakes from time to time.
I’m sure that many people would enjoy your videos and stories. I’m sorry that they didn’t have camcorders in the era when I worked in the woods. All I had was a stinking 8mm-movie camera that didn’t work half the time. It had to be cranked every few frames thus there wasn’t much continuity in the filming and absolutely no dialog.
Finally, would you tell the people on the Arboristsite why you hate me. I certainly don’t know why. I don’t hate you.

Art Martin

 

[MasterBlaster]

Hey Art!!!

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

Art, Thanks for asking, the hips doing fine. Thirty-three years in the woods has taken out the hips, but I took my first steps this week so I'll be running my hot saw before you know it! You know, even some of your pals on the site have emailed or phoned me just to say get well soon and asked how the hip was doing, yours was the first negative comment I've gotten. So yes, you are negative!
Art, I don't hate you! I just don't agree with some of the things you've said on the site. I do have years of experience in racing and logging, and I will call a spade a spade when I need to. Also, I've posted a variety of pictures and posts on this site, not just "selective" topics as you suggest. So if you think I'm out to get you; you are paranoid!
If you don't like the pictures or videos I post say so, but don't bring up all your old problems to me. You're not going to change my mind on things I saw personally, and things I've been told by very respectable people such as Jim Taylor, Rolin Eslinger, Dennis Harvey, Tom Fales Junior and Senior. Now that you're out of retirement, make yourself useful, start another filing thread Art, I hear 404's coming back. Dennis

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Dennis, lay off Art. We all know you don't agree with him. It's beating a dead horse. I like a lot of what you have to offer here, and I am going to miss Tom.

This is no place fto carry on feud. We are here for constructive discourse and sharing ideas. If you think your way is better, then explain why.

Art, welcome back! Just please ignore people who say bad things and concentrate on those here who appreciate you.

I'm on the fence, since I have only a mild curiosity as to race chain. So I asked a freind in the area about Art and a few of his detractors.

Here is Jerry's responce

From: Gerald F Beranek <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Oh BTW
To: John Paul Sanborn <[email protected]>

I got to know Art Martin during the late 70s and early 80s. Like myself
Art partisapated in the events at the Paul Bunyan logging show on Labor Day
weekend here. Never knew him to be a bragger, but he held the title in
the single, double and Jack and Jill cross-cut events. Took all around top
logger for a number of years too. He was a humble fellow actually cuz when
I met him he just recovered from Lukemia. It nearly killed him. Lucky to
live thru it let alone come back in good enough shape to when all those
events. Never heard him bragg a bit. He also was one of the first
competitors to use the M Tooth cross cuts here. And the main reason for
taking the early titles in the late 70s. Even when others came by the M
tooth saws they still couldn't beat Art for a long time. He really had it
refined. A good competitor and well respected by everyone in the
community.

Take care partner, Jerry B

 

[Crofter]

Reality check time.

Dennis Cahooon;

You refer to a man at least half as old again as you are, and whom you have never met or spoken to as "you old cull". He comes back with "at least I have all my original body parts. You go off crying that Art Martin is picking on you! I think Art can give as good as he gets. Not very convincing on your part.

You obviously have a vast knowledge about logging and saw racing; how about YOU being a bit more positive. Lets hear about what we should be doing differently than what we Art has so freely given.

I am not trying to provoke anything, but just try to look at this from other peoples perspective.

Frank

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hello there, I just wanted to talk about proper felling techniques again. Note how I have left in no Dutchman and my backcut is sawn in accurately for proper wedge placement.
John