Getting serious about lo-pro

[BobL]

No worries.

 

[austringer]

That was an exhaustive thread but quite informative however I am still unclear if its ok to use a standard oregon 3/8-8 ring sprocket with 63 PMX. I think what I got from it all was the bar sprocket tip may have been what has caused mtgun all the driver peening problems. That understood, I think I have done the right thing by filing my sprocket tip teeth narrower to accept the picco chain right? As far as the drive sprocket, I have ordered an oregon rim and drum set 3/8-8 for my 066. Hopefully there will be no issues with peening the chain. I do have a used .404-7 rim I could turn down though. And apparently Danzco may still sell picco rims for the 066! I think I will call them to be sure. Any additional input also welcome. I wont be doing a lot of milling, but I like to be geared up in case I get the urge and have a need.

Troy

 

[srcarr52]

That was an exhaustive thread but quite informative however I am still unclear if its ok to use a standard oregon 3/8-8 ring sprocket with 63 PMX. I think what I got from it all was the bar sprocket tip may have been what has caused mtgun all the driver peening problems. That understood, I think I have done the right thing by filing my sprocket tip teeth narrower to accept the picco chain right? As far as the drive sprocket, I have ordered an oregon rim and drum set 3/8-8 for my 066. Hopefully there will be no issues with peening the chain. I do have a used .404-7 rim I could turn down though. And apparently Danzco may still sell picco rims for the 066! I think I will call them to be sure. Any additional input also welcome. I wont be doing a lot of milling, but I like to be geared up in case I get the urge and have a need.

Troy

You'll probably have peening issues. It wasn't the sprocket tip that caused the peening it was the drive sprocket no engaging more than one tooth. I've turned down a .404 8 pin to fit the picco/lo-pro chain and I haven't had an issue.

If you're not going to mill a lot you may want to just run regular 3/8's.

 

[xl185s]

Hi,
My name is Christoph from Freiburg, Black Forrest, Germany.

i'm starting milling with a Stihl MS880 and a 30"-AlaskanMill.
After some trial with a MS660 and a modified 3/8-full chisel chain the need for more power and a narrower chain was strong.
So I bought a Stihl Rollomatic 36"-bar with .050 ,116 DL 63PMX chain and a 3/8-8 teeth rim.
After some modification of the studs, the tensioner bolt and the oil guide:

everything fitted well:


Everything?
Everything but the tip:


Without having knowlede of this thread I narrowed the teeth of the tip.

Some mild muffler mod:


For a first attempt everything worked well:


Everything?
After abot 10 cuts of 4ft the chain shows the well known peening on the drive links. :-(

I will now try to get a 404-7 teeth rim ged turned down to 1,435".
It seems that a rim for the 880 with 404 8teeth does not exist on earth... does anyone know a supplier?

Kind Regards from Black Forrest,
Christoph

 

[srcarr52]

Hi,
My name is Christoph from Freiburg, Black Forrest, Germany.

i'm starting milling with a Stihl MS880 and a 30"-AlaskanMill.
After some trial with a MS660 and a modified 3/8-full chisel chain the need for more power and a narrower chain was strong.
So I bought a Stihl Rollomatic 36"-bar with .050 ,116 DL 63PMX chain and a 3/8-8 teeth rim.
After some modification of the studs, the tensioner bolt and the oil guide:

After abot 10 cuts of 4ft the chain shows the well known peening on the drive links. :-(

I will now try to get a 404-7 teeth rim ged turned down to 1,435".
It seems that a rim for the 880 with 404 8teeth does not exist on earth... does anyone know a supplier?

Kind Regards from Black Forrest,
Christoph

Hi Christoph,

Welcome to the site. I've always wanted to be set loose with a chainsaw in the Black Forest. Driving from Kaiserslautern to Stuttgart I would just be in the edge of it and see the sustainable harvesting in action.

You can still get .404 8 tooth rim drive sprockets in the US but most manufactures have stopped production. I do not think Oregon nor Stihl make them anymore. I'd be happy to get a couple for you and turn them down to the correct size.

Grüße,
Shaun

 

[xl185s]

Hi Shaun,
Thank you for your warm welcome

Getting the rims turned will be no problem fo me.
On the german Oregon-Homepage no rims for the 880 are shown at all.
The only ones I can find with 404-8teeth fit on the 660 etc.
Because the 880 has a bigger hub they won't fit on the 880.
Maybe the orignal Oregon part number would be help enough.

Unfortunately i'm not really involved in sustainable harvesting, except of making firewood for my home.
As you maybe know everything in Germany is a bit more regulated so getting "set loose" is more or less a fiction ;-)
I'm happy when I get my heap of logs near the forestal road sold by the regional forest official.

Kind Regards,

Christoph

 

[srcarr52]

Hi Shaun,
Thank you for your warm welcome

Getting the rims turned will be no problem fo me.
On the german Oregon-Homepage no rims for the 880 are shown at all.
The only ones I can find with 404-8teeth fit on the 660 etc.
Because the 880 has a bigger hub they won't fit on the 880.
Maybe the orignal Oregon part number would be help enough.

Unfortunately i'm not really involved in sustainable harvesting, except of making firewood for my home.
As you maybe know everything in Germany is a bit more regulated so getting "set loose" is more or less a fiction ;-)
I'm happy when I get my heap of logs near the forestal road sold by the regional forest official.

Kind Regards,

Christoph

It's my understanding that the 880 runs the standard 7 spline rim drive sprocket or it came with a spur drive. If it has a rim drive setup it will have the same size rim as the 660. If it's a spur drive then you'll have to get a rim drive clutch drum. I don't think there is a larger hub than the standard 7 spline because with a .404 7 tooth sprocket the chain almost touches the clutch drum as is.

 

[xl185s]

Shaun,
you are right!
I just compared part numbers, where only the rim&drum sets of 660 and 880 are different because of the clutch drums.
The rims are both 3/6- 8T (0000 642 1216) and .404.- 7T (0000 642 1207) are the same.
From a mature chain and bar list I found 0000 642 1217 as the rim to buy.
If Stihl in Germany does'nt supply this rim, I think Oregon does ;-)
Many thanks,
Christoph

 

[BobL]

Back in 2010 I had an email discussion with Ed Danzer from Danzcoin (http://www.danzcoinc.com/index.html) who was in the process of making lopro rim sprockets but I never followed up to see if he had finished making them. Danzcoinc make a range of sprockets for harvester and racing chainsaws and I have a number of his higher count drive sprockets so I had every faith that the lopro sprocket would be a reliable product
If you follow up on this can you please report it here.

Because of possible chain stretch I was not going to use the lopro on my 880 but my 441 so I am interested to hear how the chain stretch on the 880?

 

[xl185s]

Good morning (10p.m.) ;-)

Good news: The .404 -8t rim (0000 642 1217) is deliverable in Germany.
The lp-chain had to be adjusted a little bit after each cut, but I can't say if was stretch or only thermal elongation.
The combination of much HP and additional friction of the peened drive links should be avoidable.
Has anyone ever tried to use a chain with reshaped drive links without a modified rim?
Maybe some cold hardening of the peened surface could bring an improvement?
E.g. like shot-peened connecting rods?

BobL, here (http://www.danzcoinc.com/html/large_oregon_7_spline_bore.html) is no dedicated 3/8LP-rim listed.

MtnGun: Many thanks for this research!
1.665" will be the modified diameter for 404 -8t rim ?
Regards,
Christoph

 

[BobL]

The lp-chain had to be adjusted a little bit after each cut, but I can't say if was stretch or only thermal elongation.

You should be able to identify if it is thermal expansion because if it is and you stop and let it cool down the chain will become very tight on the bar.
On my 441 I see both, but I only use this chain for very small logs (<18" in diameter) so it is hardly a fair test.

as anyone ever tried to use a chain with reshaped drive links without a modified rim?

What do you mean by reshaped DLs?

BobL, here (http://www.danzcoinc.com/html/large_oregon_7_spline_bore.html) is no dedicated 3/8LP-rim listed.

Yes I know these but Ed was going to make the LP drive sprockets as a special order

 

[xl185s]

You should be able to identify if it is thermal expansion because if it is and you stop and let it cool down the chain will become very tight on the bar.
On my 441 I see both, but I only use this chain for very small logs (<18" in diameter) so it is hardly a fair test.
Thats clear, but I dismounted the bar after milling without watching after this aspects.
Next time I will have an eye on this.

What do you mean by reshaped DLs?
As Mtngun recogized also my DLs have been peened and became thicker.

With "reshaped" i meant they are filed or grinded to ther origin thickness again. Maybe I should have used "reapired" instead of "reshaped".
My assumption in this question is, that the "hammered" surface of the DL reached a higher hardeness by this process.

Yes I know these but Ed was going to make the LP drive sprockets as a special order

I think turning down the here available .404 rim will be cheaper than importing the special order item.

Best Regards,
Christoph

 

[BobL]

With "reshaped" i meant they are filed or grinded to ther origin thickness again. Maybe I should have used "reapired" instead of "reshaped".
My assumption in this question is, that the "hammered" surface of the DL reached a higher hardeness by this process.

On my 441 I have also observed peening but I have not done anything about it as it is not severe.
The chain I have has been stretched so much it now jumps the 3/8 drive sprocket unless it is extra tight.
It sounds like I should start with a new loop and a turned down rim sprocket

I think turning down the here available .404 rim will be cheaper than importing the special order item.

Almost certainly.

 

[srcarr52]

I run lo-pro on a 36" bar with a 8 pin modified .404 rim on a ported 394. The power proved to be too much for the carlton chain when I was cutting a full 31" of Iowa red oak and the chain broke. The drive links where not peened but they all where stretched and the back of one tore out. I hear the Stihl 63PMX is the strongest lo-pro chain on the market but it's hard to find in the states.

 

[xl185s]

You should get the 63PMX here or at your local Stihl dealer with the part number 3614 000 0114 (where 114 is the number of DLs).

 

[xl185s]

Here is a pic of the Stihl 63 PMX new (left) and after about 40ft of cutting with the 880 and a 3/8 rim (right).


As you can see, the unused surface is rather raw.
Also the peening is visible on the used DLs, combined with a better surface.

The unused DL are all thinner than 0.051", the used are all about 0.053" while the bar is about 0.055" which was less when it was new, as I try to remember.
So at this point in time no friction should occur.

I got my .404-8t rim, but unfortunately it has an open flange. This helps controlling the position of the DLs on the one hand, but on the other it gets only 0,06" of rim "meat" if turned down to 1.67".
Hope thats enough...;-)

 

[srcarr52]

Here is a pic of the Stihl 63 PMX new (left) and after about 40ft of cutting with the 880 and a 3/8 rim (right).


As you can see, the unused surface is rather raw.
Also the peening is visible on the used DLs, combined with a better surface.

The unused DL are all thinner than 0.051", the used are all about 0.053" while the bar is about 0.055" which was less when it was new, as I try to remember.
So at this point in time no friction should occur.

I got my .404-8t rim, but unfortunately it has an open flange. This helps controlling the position of the DLs on the one hand, but on the other it gets only 0,06" of rim "meat" if turned down to 1.67".
Hope thats enough...;-)

Mine is the same way my sprocket is and it's held up fine so far.

 

[Mad Professor]

Danzco did do a run of 3/8 LP rims for the 066 size clutch. I brought up a bunch, not sure if Ed ever did another run?.

They were pin style hardened drivers on the rims

 

[xl185s]

Danzco did do a run of 3/8 LP rims for the 066 size clutch. I brought up a bunch, not sure if Ed ever did another run?.

They were pin style hardened drivers on the rims

Message from Ed Danzer (Danzco):
"We do make a 8 tooth large Oregon 7 spline for the Low Profile chain, it is part number DS0250 and costs $28.10 and can be sent Priority Mail or UPS. We do not do customs papers or pay any tariffs or duties, this is the importers tasks. We accept Visa and Master Card or we can send a PayPal link for payment. We charge a 5% processing fee for PayPal purchases.
We have changed the company name and are working on the new website so making a post linking to the Danzco, Inc . web site may become a dead link early next year. http://6kproducts.com/ This is the link the new website which currently sends you to the Danzco Website."

So this may help you. I would have to pay additional German VAT and import fees even on a single item, so I solved the problem this way (Stihl .404-8T rim turned down to 1,670"):

Best Regards,
Christoph

 

[BobL]

I ordered a couple of 8 pin 404 sprockets before Xmas to copy what a couple of members have already done (i.e. turning the sprocket down to suit lopro chain) then we away for a couple of weeks and just got round to doing this and I though some of you might like to know about my experience.

Firstly I made up a chunky mandrel and turned a step in the mandrel so the front of the sprocket fits tightly over the step on the mandrel.




Then I turned an 8 mm thick cap and drilled and tapped the end of the mandrel so that the cap could be screwed down tightly onto the sprocket with an M8 allen bolt.



Using the cap in this manner easily held the sprocket while it was being turned and there was no slipping of the sprocket.

Like Mtngun I did wreck a TC lathe cutting tool tip, not when cutting the smooth part of the sprocket but when cutting the section where the the driver slots are located. Despite taking very light cuts the rapid on-off/chattering cutting at the slots eventually knocked the tips off the TC tip. Next time I will try a slightly more rounded tip. All up for the tip and the sprocket cost me $11 so I am OK with that.