Girdling as a felling alternative.

[brushpile63]

Hello. I have two really tall but spindly 7" alders that are a problem. They are leaning at about 15 deg towards some structures but are too skinny for me to wedge over. I do not have any way to pull them down and was curious if girdling might be an answer.

My thought process is that that killing them and letting them stand would let them rot away and become lighter and possibly start falling apart on their own ( in pieces, leaving a main stem to flounder for a while). Although the structures are in their leaning path if you were to fell the alders, the trees are not directly overhanging anything.

Is this foolishness that will drop a rotten snag on my roof? Thank you for reading

 

[BeatCJ]

I wouldn't go that way. They will start shedding branches and junk. You say you don't have a way to pull them, does that mean you can't get a rope to them? At that size, you can probably steer them pretty easily. Alder is one of the most barber chair prone species there is, so be careful. Sending them where you want can be a little problematic, the hinge tends to be be brittle, too. Alder leaners can be pretty sketchy. Not knowing much about your situation, it might be better to get them pieced down.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

Girdled trees especially thin ones like that are likely to snap off in any wind.

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

Alders that size like to fall over even when they are healthy.

 

[Kdavis2685]

Hello. I have two really tall but spindly 7" alders that are a problem. They are leaning at about 15 deg towards some structures but are too skinny for me to wedge over. I do not have any way to pull them down and was curious if girdling might be an answer.

My thought process is that that killing them and letting them stand would let them rot away and become lighter and possibly start falling apart on their own ( in pieces, leaving a main stem to flounder for a while). Although the structures are in their leaning path if you were to fell the alders, the trees are not directly overhanging anything.

Is this foolishness that will drop a rotten snag on my roof? Thank you for reading

Idk what you have considered already, but throwlines and throw bags are pretty inexpensive (albeit a PITA and youre likely to get it stuck if you've never used them). Have you considered getting a rope higher up in them using a throwline to enable pulling them? I do agree with others that piecing them down may be best to avoid a failed hinge or barber chair, but I wanted to make the throwline suggestion if you hadn't already considered it. A few pictures of the trees / situation, and brief description of your prior tree experience would help us all make a better recommendation also. How tall or thick is the canopy? I don't suggest girdling. A dead tree is more likely to fail naturally or during removal.

 

[brushpile63]

Idk what you have considered already, but throwlines and throw bags are pretty inexpensive (albeit a PITA and youre likely to get it stuck if you've never used them). Have you considered getting a rope higher up in them using a throwline to enable pulling them? I do agree with others that piecing them down may be best to avoid a failed hinge or barber chair, but I wanted to make the throwline suggestion if you hadn't already considered it. A few pictures of the trees / situation, and brief description of your prior tree experience would help us all make a better recommendation also. How tall or thick is the canopy? I don't suggest girdling. A dead tree is more likely to fail naturally or during removal.

In the picture I've attached its 2 trees: one on the left side of the cluster and one on the right. The other two are leaning forward into the gap between the structures.

I think that the lean is big enough and the tree diameter small enough that I don't see how wedging over would work. Barely room for one wedge and not enough range of motion to push it over. Never used ropes but I can lean a ladder against both and attach a rope higher up for the fulcrum effect.

Would need to read up on how to use ropes properly then. I have about 18 months experience dropping trees for firewood but haven't done anything where a structure is at risk and a tree must be steered.

 

[BeatCJ]

I guess I need more photos, those don't look that bad. I would take the ones out that you can put in the right place first, then use the rope to guide the leaners to where you want. Not pull them over, but make sure they don't go the wrong way. It may be the lack of depth of field that is fooling me.

 

[Jed1124]

Alder is very prone to barber-chairing. Something to keep in mind.

 

[brushpile63]

I guess I need more photos, those don't look that bad. I would take the ones out that you can put in the right place first, then use the rope to guide the leaners to where you want. Not pull them over, but make sure they don't go the wrong way. It may be the lack of depth of field that is fooling me.

I've attached pictures of both. One on the left is a more egregious leaner. I think the one in the right I could steer with the properly positioned facecut and wedge but not sure if the risk is worth it.

 

[BeatCJ]

Making the one miss the greenhouse(?) appears to be easy enough. A rope as high as you can get in that tree, then pull at a 90 to the direction of fall. Making the one miss the shed will be tougher. The cedar appears in the way, and will cause you issues, too. Do you have any heavy equipment available? Even a small dozer should be able to pull that over backwards. I would probably do it with my tractor.

 

[brushpile63]

Making the one miss the greenhouse(?) appears to be easy enough. A rope as high as you can get in that tree, then pull at a 90 to the direction of fall. Making the one miss the shed will be tougher. The cedar appears in the way, and will cause you issues, too. Do you have any heavy equipment available? Even a small dozer should be able to pull that over backwards. I would probably do it with my tractor.

I don't unfortunately. I think I'll have an arborist climb that one. Can't risk getting my poopshack crushed.

 

[BeatCJ]

Can't risk getting my poopshack crushed.

No, you absolutely don't want that. Nobody wants that.

 

[BeatCJ]

Alder is very prone to barber-chairing. Something to keep in mind.

Probably can't be said enough. I was cutting a heavy leaning alder on my driveway last winter, about 18" diameter. I made sure I did everything to reduce the risk, let it go where it wanted, Coos Cut, about a 1/3 of the way into the release and it started chairing... I squeezed harder and won that race, but I was cutting one handed, standing behind another tree in the bunch.

 

[brushpile63]

Probably can't be said enough. I was cutting a heavy leaning alder on my driveway last winter, about 18" diameter. I made sure I did everything to reduce the risk, let it go where it wanted, Coos Cut, about a 1/3 of the way into the release and it started chairing... I squeezed harder and won that race, but I was cutting one handed, standing behind another tree in the bunch.

I hear you. I've been doing bore cuts whenever possible but pretty much every time I didn't it would barberchair. Been keeping an escape route planned in advance and running like hell once the crown moves.

 

[Kdavis2685]

I guess I need more photos, those don't look that bad. I would take the ones out that you can put in the right place first, then use the rope to guide the leaners to where you want. Not pull them over, but make sure they don't go the wrong way. It may be the lack of depth of field that is fooling me.

Yeah unless you can get the rope 2/3 of the way up the tree, you won't be able to have enough leverage to really control it, especially without machinery or some type of mechanical advantage system (rigging blocks). I think doing what you're comfortable with, and calling an arborist for the rest might be best. If you had other trees with similar lean you could practice and simulate with first, maybe then see how you feel. But without having tried anything like that, the risk of damage or injury is pretty high. They're not crazy looking, but experience has a way of humbling.

 

[POGuy]

Hello. I have two really tall but spindly 7" alders that are a problem. They are leaning at about 15 deg towards some structures but are too skinny for me to wedge over. I do not have any way to pull them down and was curious if girdling might be an answer.

My thought process is that that killing them and letting them stand would let them rot away and become lighter and possibly start falling apart on their own ( in pieces, leaving a main stem to flounder for a while). Although the structures are in their leaning path if you were to fell the alders, the trees are not directly overhanging anything.

Is this foolishness that will drop a rotten snag on my roof? Thank you for reading

Girdling takes away any and all control you have. I did that to a sweet gum with 2,4-d and it died unevenly, part dead, part still green, big wind, tree broke and landed exactly where I didn't want it to go. But for the grace of God it didn't damage my shop roof but I still had to hire someone to get it off the roof. Planning for it to decompose in place and fall straight down in pieces is NOT a plan.

 

[fruitcakesa]

I used girdling in my wood lot on large 12 to 20 inch “wolf” white pines that were useless for sawlogs. That way it would be years before they fell so it kept the trees from making a mess on the forest floor and blocking access to the better quality trees.
There are no structures to worry about and will eventually fall on their own.

 

[slowp]

Don't girdle it. Alder rots quickly. Alder bends and breaks when there is a heavy snowfall. And I will add to the prone to barberchair comments. It isn't an easy tree to "steer" as there usually isn't much to work with. and it is leaning. I had one of the best fallers in the area dispatch some alders that were about 8 inches diameter, and he and I both watched open mouthed as one headed towards the big windows of my house. It rolled, at the last minute, and brushed the house. Did I mention he is a very accomplished production faller who has been working in the woods all his life? The tree was supposed to spin a bit and miss the house. Alders lean towards sunlight and the sunlight direction was the house.

After the tree was on the ground, he mumbled about maybe should have put a rope on it.

I guess I'm pointing out that alder doesn't look big, but it is tricky.