GPS and Tail Trees

[slowp]

Before winter started, the logger that plans to start up soon, and I --mainly I found a wonderful old growth punkin to use for a tail tree on one setting.
The problem was, we couldn't see the yarder for all the trees, or from the yarder, the tail tree. That's the bad thing about thinnings. Planning without seeing can take a lot of legwork. Skyline corridors need to be flagged in so I can approve the location and mark the additional trees to be cut.

We hobbled around and then the first dump of snow came. So, it was game off.

Well, in the meantime, we got some Garmin GPS's. I haven't spent any time until today trying to figure it out. After giving up on the instruction manual, (no I don't want to know all the restarante's at the junction with I-5) I started my usual learn by pressing buttons method. Here's the findings from my EUREKA moment.

I will go to the yarder setting and press the MARK button. This saves a waypoint, which I will name YARDER.

I'll then stumble down the hill to the big tree and make another waypoint. That'll be TREE.

I'll then highlite YARDER and that gives me the azimuth back up to the yarder.
I'll set my Silva Compass on that azimuth and I should come out at the yarder. We can flag a corridor this way. Stay tuned....I can't wait to try it out.

 

[371groundie]

have fun. ive done that alot for property lines. not survey grade exactly but gets me through where there is little or no evidence.

 

[slowp]

have fun. ive done that alot for property lines. not survey grade exactly but gets me through where there is little or no evidence.

I'm a wee bit worried. The smallest error I can get it down to is 10 feet. But that's why we use regular compasses, no?

 

[371groundie]

correct. i use the unit to get my azimuth and then use my hand compass to navigate. i try to sight to where i want to hang my next ribbon so i cant side step off my line. check your unit every so often to make sure your azimuth is still the same, if its different, youre off line.

 

[cowtipper]

Another thing you need to watch out for is how dense the tree canopy is. Most people think that the GSP will find the satellites when in the deep deep woods, so they leave their hand compass at home. They don’t understand why they are having problems getting a good satellite fix. To get the best reading make sure you start in a clearing so the GPS can get a good lock on the satellite. The denser the canopy the bigger error factor you will receive, on your true location.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

I've just barely started with GPS. Only have a cheap Garmin from a couple of years ago.

The tall redwood discoverer guy Taylor just started a website in December. He listed 3 or 4 models on one page. I'll probably check those out and hopefully be able to buy one next spring or summer.

Does your do okay under some canopy?

 

[Burvol]

I'm a wee bit worried. The smallest error I can get it down to is 10 feet. But that's why we use regular compasses, no?

10 Ft.wide is usually prescribed, 15 is what the loggers and hand fallers like, especially when the roads kinda "get wide" around the nice timber, LOL

 

[slowp]

10 Ft.wide is usually prescribed, 15 is what the loggers and hand fallers like, especially when the roads kinda "get wide" around the nice timber, LOL

For that I go 12 feet. The GPS has a 10 foot error. That's why I can't use one instead of a compass. I will go a hair, and just a hair wider for downhilling. That seems to work well especially if I frequently go down or up to look sternly at the rigging crew.

I am worried about getting a reading down in the timber. The Trimble sales guys said that it was easier to get readings in steep ground and timber than flat ground and timber. They also said the problem was with the boles of the trees, not the canopy.

The only other GPS I have used was a spendy handheld Trimble--in Wisconsin where I needed it. It is too flat back there to know where you are. I used a compass and had to remember to use the sun to find my way back to the road. There's a lot of roads there too. The Trimble worked great. But now I will try to make do with the Garmin.

I also had a "discussion" with the logger. He wanted to yard the tail tree in afterwards. He needs the tight, straight grained wood for building a carport. I just turned into a NO spouting machine. No No No NO.......

We had a similar discussion about a cedar in the same spot. :bang:

 

[gallegosmike]

Check to see if your gps unit has "waas" built into it. It has more accuracy then a standard non-waas enhanced gps unit.

Has anyone thought about using ir emitters on the yarder tower with a night vision monocular. Under foggy / low light conditions, ir emitters would stick out like a sore thumb!

 

[slowp]

Check to see if your gps unit has "waas" built into it. It has more accuracy then a standard non-waas enhanced gps unit.

Has anyone thought about using ir emitters on the yarder tower with a night vision monocular. Under foggy / low light conditions, ir emitters would stick out like a sore thumb!

Ummmm, we're kind of low tech. We talked about sending his son up the tower with a pole and a flag. Maybe a strobe.

 

[redprospector]

I would think you could come out pretty close on the corridors that way. I've got a little Garmin E-trex, I've used it to mark property lines that way. The E-trex has an area calculator built into it, so that's what I use it mostly for. When I call for an inspection on a project I can tell them real close to how many acres I have ready to inspect.

Andy

 

[gallegosmike]

Ummmm, we're kind of low tech. We talked about sending his son up the tower with a pole and a flag. Maybe a strobe.

Try something like this; http://www.magnalight.com/pc-46707-...ts--180-lumens--stud-mount--9-32v--850nm.aspx and a cheap water proofed ir monocular. You would be able to see the ir strobe in the fog and rain. They have strips of ir leds that could be mounted on the yarder tower. Just a idea to save you some grief.

A laser torch laser mounted on the tower (about $50.00 to $100.00) and cheap water proofed ir monocular (about $75.00 to $100.00) might work as well.

 

[Humptulips]

Check to see if your gps unit has "waas" built into it. It has more accuracy then a standard non-waas enhanced gps unit.

Has anyone thought about using ir emitters on the yarder tower with a night vision monocular. Under foggy / low light conditions, ir emitters would stick out like a sore thumb!

Trouble with that whole thought is you need to have the corridors marked and then cut out before the yarder moves into the setting.

I never could make that GPS stuff work in the timber. Hope you have better luck then I. For me the compass wasn't the answer either. I mostly used a lot of flagging and tried to keep several in sight to line up on as I worked my way back. The GPS sure would be nice if you can make it work.

 

[Cowboy Billy]

We just went through that over new years. We were going through thick cedar and pines. At one point he did something to check the accuracy and he had a 40' margin of error. Where it was open near the one survey marker he had a 2' margin of error. He had a four or five year old garmin and his accuracy was changing as we went. I don't know much about it my job was running the paint can. It took us four hrs or more to mark out 3/4 mile of property line in the woods and snow. And three and a half days to make a 12+ wide trail with my little 450 dozer.

Can you see the deer?

The deer sure love my bulldozer! They followed me all the time I was making this trail. They would come up to within 60 feet of me while I was working. I am sure I knocked down enough cedar for them to eat good all winter.

Billy

 

[cowtipper]

For that I go 12 feet. The GPS has a 10 foot error. That's why I can't use one instead of a compass. I will go a hair, and just a hair wider for downhilling. That seems to work well especially if I frequently go down or up to look sternly at the rigging crew.

I am worried about getting a reading down in the timber. The Trimble sales guys said that it was easier to get readings in steep ground and timber than flat ground and timber. They also said the problem was with the boles of the trees, not the canopy.

The only other GPS I have used was a spendy handheld Trimble--in Wisconsin where I needed it. It is too flat back there to know where you are. I used a compass and had to remember to use the sun to find my way back to the road. There's a lot of roads there too. The Trimble worked great. But now I will try to make do with the Garmin.

I also had a "discussion" with the logger. He wanted to yard the tail tree in afterwards. He needs the tight, straight grained wood for building a carport. I just turned into a NO spouting machine. No No No NO.......

We had a similar discussion about a cedar in the same spot. :bang:

slopw,

I need to learn something today... what do you mean by boles of the trees...

Thanks

 

[Humptulips]

slopw,

I need to learn something today... what do you mean by boles of the trees...

Thanks

trunks

 

[gallegosmike]

Trouble with that whole thought is you need to have the corridors marked and then cut out before the yarder moves into the setting.

I never could make that GPS stuff work in the timber. Hope you have better luck then I. For me the compass wasn't the answer either. I mostly used a lot of flagging and tried to keep several in sight to line up on as I worked my way back. The GPS sure would be nice if you can make it work.

I was figuring that most , but not all the time. The yarding site was prepped before hand. There has to better way to do this and do it quicker. I am a tech geek that loves to run saws.

 

[cowtipper]

trunks

Thanks

 

[Humptulips]

I was figuring that most , but not all the time. The yarding site was prepped before hand. There has to better way to do this and do it quicker. I am a tech geek that loves to run saws.

When I was working I would have been happy to just have the tower painted a color that didn't blend with the fog. I liked Skagits but who ever came up with the idea of painting them white was clearly out to lunch.

 

[slowp]

One guy here always spray painted the top bright orange.