Granite Mountain Hot Shot tragedy update

[roberte]

Can I be on your ignore list too?

me too.

and now dano with the last word again....otstir:

 

[jrcat]

May the families of the fallen find closure and peace and may the fallen rest in peace.

Dano, had you NOT brought up how much money your family WONT get compared to these men, you might have had a good thread here. Instead you used the plight of others to draw attention to yourself. That is a level of wrong I have never witnessed on any public forum I have visited. I stuck up for you once for a bashing you received in the chainsaw forum, which you are unaware of. Then you turned around and made an even bigger heel of yourself that same day. I learned then that you are self centered and selfish. After a few people call you out on your drivel, you try to revert to being a decent forum member, which fails miserably because of the bad taste you leave in your wake. Being a supposed retired law enforcement officer, you should know what honor and integrity mean. IMHO , you do not deserve to call those 19 men your brothers in arms.

ps: I noticed you have no friends here....I can only imagine why.........

 

[1Alpha1]

May the families of the fallen find closure and peace and may the fallen rest in peace.

Dano, had you NOT brought up how much money your family WONT get compared to these men, you might have had a good thread here. Instead you used the plight of others to draw attention to yourself. That is a level of wrong I have never witnessed on any public forum I have visited. I stuck up for you once for a bashing you received in the chainsaw forum, which you are unaware of. Then you turned around and made an even bigger heel of yourself that same day. I learned then that you are self centered and selfish. After a few people call you out on your drivel, you try to revert to being a decent forum member, which fails miserably because of the bad taste you leave in your wake. Being a supposed retired law enforcement officer, you should know what honor and integrity mean. IMHO , you do not deserve to call those 19 men your brothers in arms.

ps: I noticed you have no friends here....I can only imagine why.........

Not once did I criticize any fire fighter. I was only hoping that their survivor benefits would be enough to take some of the stress of the tragedy off the families.

I had no idea as to what the survivor benefits amounted to. But after seeing how the community rallied around the families and made things happen, it was obvious that the monies collected was going to be of such an amount, that the families could breathe a small sigh of relief.

The monies collected (it's still coming in) amounted to more than any individual death benefit would have amounted to. Only one family had an issue with that, and that's because she felt that her seasonal employee husband should receive the same benefits as a full-time employee.

The issue has divided those here who have participated in various ways to help those who had suffered. That was my whole point and still is.

If I didn't make that clear, then it's on me.

 

[Gologit]

I'm retired LE and my death benefits were no where even close to what the widows and families may receive.

Sour grapes, pure and simple.

 

[056kid]

You Sir are possibly one of the insensitive people I have come across on this forum. Are you just looking to piss people off? After a tragic accident, you make a thread basically saying that you are upset because the families are going to receive more money in death benefits than your family will receive? Who thinks like that?

Sound's like he's a cop, (cringe). What do you expect. Most but not all cops I have encountered where shall we say, not the friendliest people I have met... matter of fact id say an undetermined percentage of police are straight up low down douchebags with something big to prove. I could go into detail, but this is absolutely NOT the place.
May those brave firefighters rest in peace.

 

[Truck4]

Only one family had an issue with that, and that's because she felt that her seasonal employee husband should receive the same benefits as a full-time employee.

Sorry to kick you while your down but she/they should receive the same benefits. Her husband was doing the SAME job as the others just cause they were seasonal does not mean they are in less danger or do less work. I wonder if your tune would be the same for a officer working part time w/out benefits was killed in the line of duty be the same as that of a full time officer with benefits?

 

[2dogs]

Sorry to kick you while your down but she/they should receive the same benefits. Her husband was doing the SAME job as the others just cause they were seasonal does not mean they are in less danger or do less work. I wonder if your tune would be the same for a officer working part time w/out benefits was killed in the line of duty be the same as that of a full time officer with benefits?

Then you believe a contract should be signed after someone is hurt or killed? That makes no sense to anyone but a liberal. It's all about feelings.

No, a contract was signed prior to the fire season and it must be honored, If donations come in or Prescott wants to add additional benefits that's fine. Suing for more that the agreed upon amount should be stopped.

 

[1Alpha1]

Sorry to kick you while your down but she/they should receive the same benefits. Her husband was doing the SAME job as the others just cause they were seasonal does not mean they are in less danger or do less work. I wonder if your tune would be the same for a officer working part time w/out benefits was killed in the line of duty be the same as that of a full time officer with benefits?

I agree with you. Same risks / hazards......same pay.

But, I didn't write the job agreement / contract. It was on the news again tonight. They showed the actual contract that was signed before being hired. It clearly states that seasonal employees receives no benefits of any kind. Straight pay only.

There is going to be a bill presented before the state senate for a vote, so that both full-time and part-time employees receive the same bennies. But, the vote won't come up until Jan. of 2014. Good news is that if it passes, it will be retro-active.

 

[IcePick]

Ive read and re-read dano's original post. I think he was looking to create a platform for rational conversation. Instead he has successfully been burned at the stake by an angry mob. Too emotional a topic me thinks?

 

[slowp]

I agree with you. Same risks / hazards......same pay.

But, I didn't write the job agreement / contract. It was on the news again tonight. They showed the actual contract that was signed before being hired. It clearly states that seasonal employees receives no benefits of any kind. Straight pay only.

There is going to be a bill presented before the state senate for a vote, so that both full-time and part-time employees receive the same bennies. But, the vote won't come up until Jan. of 2014. Good news is that if it passes, it will be retro-active.

For whom? Oh, I see it must be an AZ thing. Forest Service seasonals have been trying to get that bill passed federally for eons. Having worked as a seasonal and permanent, I can say that I've never heard of anybody thinking about death benefits. You're young and invincible.
Pay? We got hazard pay on fires and overtime too. That's why you go. The pay. Not to be a hero. Not to collect death benefits for somebody else.

Hazard is a quarter of your hourly pay added, and overtime is time and a half. So, you can get paid your hourly wage plus 3/4 of your hourly wage if shifts are long. That's what you go to fires for.

 

[imagineero]

That's an emotionally charged topic for sure.
There were comments posted earlier along the lines of "A Jobs not Worth crap if you don't get recognition for what you do", or "a job's not worth doing unless you're getting paid for it" or similar.

In my opinion, a jobs not worth doing unless you'd do it with no recognition, and still do it if nobody ever knew you did, with no bragging rights. In my opinion, a job's not worth doing unless you'd do it for free, purely for the satisfaction of it.

I've worked many rescue type jobs, some paid, but mostly unpaid. Mountain rescue, firefighter, coastguard. A lot of it was volunteer work, many hours of training put in, and if I were to ever try to work out what I made per hour I imagine it wouldn't cover the cost of a cup of coffee per day. My family would get nothing if I were to be hurt in that line of work, but I'd still put my life on the line to help others. No question.

Is that the way it ought to be? It's a double edged sword in my opinion. Yes I feel like the immediate family (wife and kids) of the worker deserve financial assistance. No amount of money will ever compensate them for that loss, but it will help put food on the table. I feel that non-dependants don't really need financial assistance though. Above all, I feel that this kind of job should only be open to those who would do it for no pay and no benefits. This isn't a 'career choice'.

Shaun

 

[imagineero]

So, you can get paid your hourly wage plus 3/4 of your hourly wage if shifts are long. That's what you go to fires for.

C'mon Patty, I thought you were a little more altruistic than that. You go to fires so you can get 1 3/4 wage loading? I go to fires for the same reason I stop if I see someone with a flat tyre; they may need a hand.

Shaun

 

[1Alpha1]

Ive read and re-read dano's original post. I think he was looking to create a platform for rational conversation. Instead he has successfully been burned at the stake by an angry mob. Too emotional a topic me thinks?

You may be right, about the topic being too emotional. Initially, I didn't feel that it was, and I had no intention of presenting it that way.

I suppose that I could have worded it better and in such a way, that no one took offense to it. It was never my intent to turn it into what it has become.

But, there is a certain faction on this forum that will turn on you no matter the topic or how it's presented. Not unlike high school and the circles of like-minded people with an agenda in mind.

 

[slowp]

C'mon Patty, I thought you were a little more altruistic than that. You go to fires so you can get 1 3/4 wage loading? I go to fires for the same reason I stop if I see someone with a flat tyre; they may need a hand.

Shaun

I did it for the money. I'm not talking about a neighborhood threatened--just woods burning. Nothing wrong with getting paid.
The only reason I'd work for free was if a house was threatened or my neighborhood. I never really enjoyed horking up black stuff, sleep deprivation, and some real idiots ordering folks around. Maybe things have changed? I'll bet if you didn't pay anybody, very few folks would show up and the quality of the crews might be questionable. Plus, in our part of the world, you have to have a few qualifications to fight fire.

 

[HuskStihl]

In my opinion, a jobs not worth doing unless you'd do it with no recognition, and still do it if nobody ever knew you did, with no bragging rights. In my opinion, a job's not worth doing unless you'd do it for free, purely for the satisfaction of it.

Back when I was a wet t-shirt contest judge moonlighting as a heterosexual male escort I couldn't have agreed with you more. Now I still do lots of stuff to help people with no expectation of remuneration, but I have found a paycheck to be necessary