Grinding chain loops and the difference between left and right hand cutters..

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Setting up a grinder to grind perfect on both side is just as hard as doing the same with hand filing. Most of the cheaper grinders are pretty bad aide to side.
Definitely. But still doable if the vise is adjustable.
Don’t get me wrong. I use every method known to sharpen a chain. They all work and I have nothing against any of them. But if the vise has a centering adjustment, L cutters will vary as much in length as right cutters and both will have the same average length
 
I always do the right side cutters first.

Most chainsaw operators are not left handed, and cut from right to left. Most of them are too damned lazy to bend their knees and get close to the ground for a horizontal cut when dispatching underbrush and small trees.

This puts the right hand cutters closer to the ground than the left, and this is the side that is usually the dullest.

That is when dropping trees. Most firewood cutters, spend >90% of their cutting with a tree on the ground, where the left/right cutting will have no bias on the chain.
 
Definitely. But still doable if the vise is adjustable.
Don’t get me wrong. I use every method known to sharpen a chain. They all work and I have nothing against any of them. But if the vise has a centering adjustment, L cutters will vary as much in length as right cutters and both will have the same average length
I think the problem is alot of guys think a grinder is a plug and play affair, when in reality it takes as much tinkering as learning to file.
 
Setting up a grinder to grind perfect on both side is just as hard as doing the same with hand filing. Most of the cheaper grinders are pretty bad aide to side.
Whatever you say... Both my grinders are are Oregon / Tecomec., not some cheap knock off. Having said that I also have a China Veyvor knockoff and believe it or not (and I don't really care one way or another), the Veyvor grinder is much better at holding depth of grind than either of the Oregon units. The Veyvor also has a CBN wheel. The wheel cost more than the grinder did. The grinder was 100 bucks delivered on Amazon. The wheel direct from Diamond Abrasives was 125 bucks.

All my arborist customers are quite happy with my regrinds. Saves them money and increases their profit.

I'm not about to whale away on any loop unless it was really rocked and most aren't.

As of late, I've been grinding about 150 loops a week.
 
Some thing I've found interesting and that is, when sharpening (grinding) customers chains, there is always a difference between the left hand line of cutters and the right hand line, almost always.

Not something you'd see with hand filing but when machine grinding them and the repeatability of machine grinding, I almost always see a difference in cutter tooth length and have to reset the machines between the right side and the left, which I've been doing, but my question is..

Should I grind them all to a uniform length (left side and right side) or just reset the machine to allow for the difference, so long as the cutters are uniformly sharpened and if so, would it make a difference in overall cutting performance?

I guess my issue is, if say the left hand side cutters are ground and I switch to the right side and the cutters are quite a bit longer, I'd have to remove way more cutter to get them uniform (left and right balanced). I do check cutter length prior to grinding with a set of dial calipers and almost always there is a difference.

I really dislike removing excessive tooth material because it shortens loop longevity and chain loops are expensive today, at least Oregon and Stihl loops are.

These are all professional tree company (Arborists) chain loops. I don't sharpen consumer chains at all, except my own. Kind of a value added thing for me as I grind chipper knives mostly but I've been getting saw chains lately as well.

I need some opinions, do I grind the left side and reset the machine's) for the right hand side or grind them all evenly and remove a lot of tooth material in the process.?

I use Diamond Abrasives CBN wheels exclusively and not the stone wheels so heating teeth (and destroying the temper) is a non issue.
well... IF you plan on charging money, then the teeth should be even from side to side, and preferably all the way around the loop, the depth gauges(rakers) should be .02-.035 BELOW the top if the cutting edge (depth is dependent on cutting conditions, tooth count hp etc etc .030 is fairly standard) The entire point of paying someone to grind chains is to "true them up" and keep the hand filing from going wildly astray. Yes you could simply grind until sharp and make the depth gauges match each tooth, which is a compromise and just fine for your own uses, not something a self described machinist would ever charge money for though.

as for your grinder not repeating side to side, all of them are a little less then accurate, some are adjustable, some are not, Oregon products are no better then harbor freight, they just cost more, even the old Silvey grinders which are arguably the top of the line skookum choochers still need to be adjusted to get consistency left to right, the Simmingtons too for that matter. Its almost like someone claiming to be a machinist would just ass-u-me that the head on a bridgeport mill is dialed in and ready to work, without checking it first

One would think a card carrying "journeyman" tool and die maker would already know most of this.

As for your CBN wheels, it may be fine for you, however if you do heat the tooth up red hot, it will air quench and harden, so when your paying customer attempts to file it back to true... he's going to tear up a couple files quick fast in a hurry, again, this is something a "machinist" should already know. (the carborundom wheels are supposed to cut, rather then abrade and shouldn't make much heat, but they can, and the diamond wheels can and will create as much or more heat then the traditional stone wheels, again things a "machinist" should already know.) What generally happens when some ignoramus overheats a tooth is, they take it to a shop that does in fact know what they are talking about, they then spend a considerable amount of time hand grinding the hardened spots out of the teeth, then cutting all the remaining teeth back to that depth, so that when the customer does use the chain, it cuts straight, fast and true. A tool and die maker would already know all this though.
 
I get a kick out of this forum, I asked a simple question and off the thread goes into never-never land.

I'm done here. My question was answered and that is all I need to know.


That's a pretty sore attitude.


1) just cause you started a thread doesn't mean the thread is all about you.

2) threads evolve as they grow and the subject matter with it

3) often, useful information can be gleaned from the twists and turns a thread may take
 
That's a pretty sore attitude.


1) just cause you started a thread doesn't mean the thread is all about you.

2) threads evolve as they grow and the subject matter with it

3) often, useful information can be gleaned from the twists and turns a thread may take
Again, I asked a question and it was answered and I'm good with that and yes, I charge all of them to grind their loops, just like they get charged to grind their chipper knives. I'm not a charitable org.

Far as feedback on the chains, all of them are quite happy with the results. Saves them money and I don't grind them to eat them up either. Just enough to restore the tooth to a sharp cutting edge.

Actually getting overloaded with chains. It's farming time and I don't have the time to do them, but then they all know I farm so they are all pretty understanding about that.
 
That's a pretty sore attitude.


1) just cause you started a thread doesn't mean the thread is all about you.

2) threads evolve as they grow and the subject matter with it

3) often, useful information can be gleaned from the twists and turns a thread may take
some folks only hear what they want to hear, and are here just looking for bias affirmation
 
Whatever. I will say this is the only forum I frequent where the attitudes generally suck. I asked a question and it was answered and I'm good with that and yes, I charge all of them to grind their loops, just like they get charged to grind their chipper knives. I'm not a charitable org.
theres a great deal of really good knowledge all over this forum, if you think its full of jerks, may I suggest again in as many days some self reflection?
 
At 73, I'm probably older than 90% of you on here. I agree, there is some good knowledge on here but there is also a ton of crap as well and a whole bunch of people that cannot spell for beans as well.
 
At 73, I'm probably older than 90% of you on here. I agree, there is some good knowledge on here but there is also a ton of crap as well and a whole bunch of people that cannot spell for beans as well.

Most posters on this site are living legends and know more about saws then all the technicians and engineers from both Husqvarna and Stihl combined. But don't believe me, just ask them. :yes:

I learned that if you have a question and are brave enough to ask, then accept the answers, even ones that are contradictions of earlier expertise. Praise and thank all the responses and then get out of town. Or just don't ask. That's usually the safest. :clap:
 
At 73, I'm probably older than 90% of you on here. I agree, there is some good knowledge on here but there is also a ton of crap as well and a whole bunch of people that cannot spell for beans as well.
Says the guy who threatened to leave the site, but was back for more hrs later.
 
At 73, I'm probably older than 90% of you on here. I agree, there is some good knowledge on here but there is also a ton of crap as well and a whole bunch of people that cannot spell for beans as well.

At 36 there's a decent chance I've logged more hours in the woods and behind a saw than yourself.

/end ego
 
Whatever you say... Both my grinders are are Oregon / Tecomec., not some cheap knock off. Having said that I also have a China Veyvor knockoff and believe it or not (and I don't really care one way or another), the Veyvor grinder is much better at holding depth of grind than either of the Oregon units. The Veyvor also has a CBN wheel. The wheel cost more than the grinder did. The grinder was 100 bucks delivered on Amazon. The wheel direct from Diamond Abrasives was 125 bucks.

All my arborist customers are quite happy with my regrinds. Saves them money and increases their profit.

I'm not about to whale away on any loop unless it was really rocked and most aren't.

As of late, I've been grinding about 150 loops a week.
I have had Oregon, Tecomec and Maxx. They are all cheap grinders. At the time I was messing with grinders Silvey was about the only quality grinder left and they are now gone.
 
That is when dropping trees. Most firewood cutters, spend >90% of their cutting with a tree on the ground, where the left/right cutting will have no bias on the chain.

Maybe. I'm not a firewood cutter. I cut down trees, I clear underbrush. Try to remember that the OP said he was sharpening for arborists, not firewood cutters. That would be folks like myself.

Even for the guys that have no bias on their cuts, that makes the left & right side cutters equally dull. I've also run a small engine repair facility and taken in chainsaws for sharpening since about 1990. TRUST ME! The right side cutters are more often dulled worse than the left. Not always, not invariably, ...just more often.

For clarity, that means the cutters on the right side of the bar as you are holding the saw vertical for a cut.
 
With any tool, and in every trade, there is variation. Being competent means knowing how to work with these.

When I did some land surveying I was trained how to use the old transits so that any errors due to slop would cancel each other out, rather than accumulate.

I’ve seen some cabinet makers who make parts fit, without using any graduated measuring tapes or rulers, even on uneven surfaces.

Saw chains are not as precise as aircraft parts. But it’s possible to get the cutters sharp, uniform, and accurate, with just a little knowledge, skill, and experience.

Philbert
 
I do so appreciate when someone throws the fact that they got old around like that means a damn thing, cool you didn't walk in front of a bus, wanna gold star for that?
Getting old is easy, most everyone can do it with minimal effort.
listening to folks that might know better on the other hand seems to be the hardest thing in the world for some
 
Maybe a stupid question, but do we all agree what is a 'right' tooth and what is a 'left' tooth? Is this diagram from the internet correct?
1694422430145.png

- I only say because in the diagram above, "left" teeth would be sharpened by a hand file with the right hand.
- On the bottom of the bar, the teeth move in the opposite direction and are even sometimes sharpened with the saw and bar held in a vice upside down.
- I think that the right tooth (as defined above) makes a downwards crosscutting action, cut to the right, so blunter right teeth than left makes a saw cut to the left. Is this correct?
 
Back
Top