Ground Disturbance

[slowp]

Ground disturbance: A discussion.

Here's a picture taken on Wednesday of a skyline corridor after it was used. Steep ground plus proper rigging and tower height make for good lift which makes for very little ground disturbance.

Next week, we shall see if the logger proposed method of shovel bunching (using a loader) and placing slash on the skid trails holds up enough to log in a damp area.

View attachment 170125

 

[slowp]

Same corridor looking uphill towards the landing. Note the stump cut low for yarding over.

View attachment 170132

 

[floyd]

It was done very successfully above me a few yrs ago on Longview ground.

I did not see what they set the slash with.

I was up there in the dry & it looked very nice. Did not see much compaction.

 

[bitzer]

Good pics. Selective? Sometimes you have to pile that brush awfully thick to keep moving over the squishy stuff.

 

[paccity]

Good pics. Selective? Sometimes you have to pile that brush awfully thick to keep moving over the squishy stuff.

looks like thining.

 

[slowp]

looks like thining.

That's what it is, with a few tiny little patch cuts. Very tiny.

 

[8433jeff]

Slowp-fair comparison? Are they paid differently? Is the volume enough to justify a skyline? As steep as the the pictured job? I could see tracked machines having a chance, given enough room, but thats awful steep for wheeled ones. But I live on the plains, what do I know...

 

[forestryworks]

What is the age of that stand?

 

[slowp]

I'm thinking around 50 or 60 years. I need to check on that. This is in an old burn that occured in the early 19teens or twenties. Some of the area was replanted by the CCC and some came back naturally.

 

[slowp]

Slowp-fair comparison? Are they paid differently? Is the volume enough to justify a skyline? As steep as the the pictured job? I could see tracked machines having a chance, given enough room, but thats awful steep for wheeled ones. But I live on the plains, what do I know...

The logger bids the job. This is pretty good timber and it is being hauled to four different mills. It is good enough to justify the sort and the long trucking. The purchaser who buys the entire sale, has to bid accordingly also. Yes, they are making a profit with the skyline.

We would not allow any ground skidding equipment on that hill. If not skyline, it would be sold as helicopter, which is even spendier.

 

[madhatte]

Near Yacolt, I'm guessing? Steep ground indeed.

I need to post some pics to show the minor variation we use because we have shallower slopes and gravelly soil. Perhaps I'll even talk about root rot and equipment.

 

[RPM]

Slowp does the State FS do any fertilizer (aerial applications) after these thinnings? When would the next entry be planned ... are these 2-3 pass before the original stand is harvested?

 

[slowp]

Slowp does the State FS do any fertilizer (aerial applications) after these thinnings? When would the next entry be planned ... are these 2-3 pass before the original stand is harvested?

Nope, and unless the current way of thinking. or power changes, it probably won't be harvested again. The current plans for most of the area is to "Restore" the forest. Restored to what? I do not know.

 

[madhatte]

Weird. We re-visit our sale areas every 15 years or so, removing 15% or so each time. We're selling some really nice second-growth and prairie-colonization timber now, averaging around 1mbf/tree, 26" DBH, <60 years old, and always leaving a standing forest. There's no one-size-fits-all prescription, so every sale is different, but in general, I think our program is very successful, even with the disturbance caused by multiple entries.

 

[Gologit]

Weird. We re-visit our sale areas every 15 years or so, removing 15% or so each time. We're selling some really nice second-growth and prairie-colonization timber now, averaging around 1mbf/tree, 26" DBH, <60 years old, and always leaving a standing forest. There's no one-size-fits-all prescription, so every sale is different, but in general, I think our program is very successful, even with the disturbance caused by multiple entries.

Sounds like a good program. Too bad some of the other agencies can't have that kind of attitude and foresight.

 

[madhatte]

Y'wanna know how we pull it off? It's simple: we don't have stockholders, we don't have a maximum or minimum cut, and we have FSC certification. That adds up to a freedom, or rather an obligation, to practice forestry that performs over the long term, rather than showing a short-term profit. I know it's a unique situation, but I suspect that if we can prove our methodology to be sound enough, perhaps it'll catch on.

 

[earache]

madhatte, that is very similar to the way stands are managed around here. I've worked in a few different areas that are managing hundred year rotations. In that scenario, they will open up a timber sale every ten to fifteen years. If they feel that there is too much disturbance, they will adjust the harvest. In these stands, they also had us open up very large canopy gaps. Most likely to see this type of management and harvesting is on county lands and large timber company lands.

 

[madhatte]

County lands? Timber companies? Wow. Those are the last outfits I would expect to be so progressive. I'm impressed.

 

[RPM]

Pacific Forest Products used to be a larger company on Vancouver Island and had both private and crown (public ) land operations. They were heavily invested in their private forest holdings through thinnings, prunning, fertilization, etc. Long term thinking and probably the best example in BC at the time. Almost text book examples in really prime 2nd growth stands (Mostly Doug-fir and Hemlock).

They were bought out by another company around 1996/7 whose major share interest was John Hancock MutualLife. Long term planning changed from looking 50-100 years out to 3 month quarters and whether or not the return to the share holders was being met. Needless to say anyone with a stake in John Hancock did well with the old Pacific Forest Products woodlands contributing. There are a bunch of really, really big clearcuts in that area now and all that prevous work for not. Lots of jobs gone too! Cash is king!

 

[Gologit]

County lands? Timber companies? Wow. Those are the last outfits I would expect to be so progressive. I'm impressed.

There are timber companies who believe in responsible forestry. Two good examples:

Certified Forests | The Collins Companies


Soper-Wheeler Co.

I've had first hand experience with both of these companies. They're not exaggerating or making false claims for their stewardship.

I'm not blind to the fact that one of the driving forces in their methods is financial gain. Of course it is...and it should be. I'm just pointing out that it is possible to combine a high sense of forest ethics, harvest timber, and still make money. It's encouraging when it happens and it happens more often than a lot of people think.