Where are these held?
Eventhough from what I understand, some think that GOL is stupid, there might be some good info that I could use.
Guys, don't get complacent out there!!!
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Where are these held?
Eventhough from what I understand, some think that GOL is stupid, there might be some good info that I could use.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
It appears that GOL is good for those who are beginning chainsaw use, they hit safety pretty hard.
However their approach to tree falling is rigid, involves many extra cuts, they believe one size fits all, like an old 'ho's chootch.
However their approach to tree falling is rigid, involves many extra cuts, they believe one size fits all, like an old 'ho's chootch.
I just read the thread about this in F/L.
Safety is #1 and could be usefull to some.
I personally not about to bore in and back out every tree, but whatever gets the tree down safely.
At the risk of feeling the wrath of the Emperor, he is correct on his first statement and wrong on all the rest. Well, except for an old 'ho's chootch.
I have no idea what that is like.
I'm continually amazed how the biggest experts on GOL have never been to a class but do know every thing they teach because they know a guy whose cousin had a friend who knew a guy who heard a guy talking to another guy at the bar one night.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
Well Wendy. I reviewed 3 hours of DVDs produced by GOL, they were sent to me by one of their strident acolytes. I saw the same style cut used on every single tree, every single time, regardless of the nature of the tree. Oh, and not one of the GOL sawyers looked up at the tree, they were too busy playing with bore cuts and fiddling with too many wedges. Some trunks looked like a sales display for wedges.
Well, Randy, I've been to all 4 classes and we rarely bore cut, were taught to be constantly looking up and were taught how to analyze every tree and use the appropriate cut for that tree.
Guess you got some bad video.
Guess you got some bad video.
Does GOL teach the Humboldt face? Or the Humboldt with a snipe? Or the the box cut face? Or about using jacks? If not, they should.
And, you're right, I've never taken the course. But I had two guys work for me who did. They had all the GOL stuff. I fired them by lunch time. Their GOL training didn't do them any good in a real world timber falling scenario.
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Hi Vis color?
I'm not familiar with it at all, but as long as they don't teach dangerous practices, and focus on safe falling, it would at least be a good beginning. I think your experience with GOL trainees shows that you can't become a real-world timber faller by taking some classes. I would think, however, that progressing towards being a real-world timber faller is more of a possibility if you have fundamentals to build upon.
It's like a golf swing. There's no way to learn it all at once, so you work on developing the basic swing, and add to that for different situations. My dad is a golf fanatic, but I couldn't be bothered to practice the basics, so I'll always suck at it.
Brad,
This is Kent in Hickory,NC , I sold you a 242xp and a bunch of 242 parts a few years ago.
I am very glad your alright and I think it takes alot of courage to post something that didn't go quite right. I'm sure your posting this experience might save someone else from a similiar accident.
This is Kent in Hickory,NC , I sold you a 242xp and a bunch of 242 parts a few years ago.
I am very glad your alright and I think it takes alot of courage to post something that didn't go quite right. I'm sure your posting this experience might save someone else from a similiar accident.
http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/130027.htm
This is the GOL discussion thread that I read the other night. While tring to find it, I found some other ones, but
I was wondering if some one knows of a good thread that talks about 3pt. osha Veneer cuts, or "steering" or "swinging" a veneer stick.
Any links would be helpful
This is the GOL discussion thread that I read the other night. While tring to find it, I found some other ones, but
I was wondering if some one knows of a good thread that talks about 3pt. osha Veneer cuts, or "steering" or "swinging" a veneer stick.
Any links would be helpful
Metals406
Granfodder Runningsaw
Sounds like the GOL course isn't as standardized as many think, and is regionally different, and also differs by who the instructor(s) are teaching the course.
All the GOL video I see teaches boring and backing out, and no other technique.
I will say one thing, GOL stuff beats the farmer cut by about 5,000%.
I personally believe that GOL does more good than harm for greenhorns and weekend warriors wanting to go out and get some wood.
I also believe that the tools they give you for your tool bags, aren't all the tools one needs to be a proficient timber faller.
I don't think they do GOL here, or I'd consider taking a class, just to see for myself.
But I'll also be honest, and say I will learn more from the Bob O's, Cody T's and Ron R's, than a GOL course could ever hope to teach.
I wouldn't dismiss the knowledge of a farmer so quickly.
The farmer that I cut for this week ran a logging co. for years and some farmers log during the winter months for some extra income and for some thing to do. Some of the knowledge they have has been passed down from generation to generation.
Its like GoL, AS, or anything else, take what makes sense or, what you can use, and try it.
I like learning new things, I don't care who it is that is offering info. I'm just greatful that they are.
A "pro" faller showed me how to chase a veneer stick off the stump.
A "farmer" showed me how to cut the heart out through the face.
I learned the fast and dangerious way, then I learned the safe way that will save you and your saw.
One must take my location into consideration, there is not much left here, and we don't grow them as fast as the west coasters.
So there is very few fellas I can talk to on this matter that has worked full time in the woods.
The farmer that I cut for this week ran a logging co. for years and some farmers log during the winter months for some extra income and for some thing to do. Some of the knowledge they have has been passed down from generation to generation.
Its like GoL, AS, or anything else, take what makes sense or, what you can use, and try it.
I like learning new things, I don't care who it is that is offering info. I'm just greatful that they are.
A "pro" faller showed me how to chase a veneer stick off the stump.
A "farmer" showed me how to cut the heart out through the face.
I learned the fast and dangerious way, then I learned the safe way that will save you and your saw.
One must take my location into consideration, there is not much left here, and we don't grow them as fast as the west coasters.
So there is very few fellas I can talk to on this matter that has worked full time in the woods.
Hokay guys, I went to the beginning GOL course. It was two days. The first morning was spent going over saw stuff and safety. I think it might have been modified more to fit our PNW styles and in no way did the instructor ever say we were good to go to work as timber fallers.
It was geared for beginners. The instructor was from Wisconsin and we teased him endlessly over his pronunciation of Oregon, until he started saying, that company from the state across the river.
He taught the bore cut. But he discussed and demonstrated a few other cuts and stressed that the bore or poke (as one of the students named it) cut was NOT the only way to go. In fact, I ended up cutting my first tree in more what is the norm out here, except not a humboldt undercut. He did talk about looking up. Mostly prior TO putting the saw in the tree. I think most of us were not yet enough comfy with our saws to look up much whilst cutting. That includes me. I can watch rootwads and stuff whilst bucking, but am not comfy falling.
The class was good, but I felt it had too many people in it for going out and actually falling trees. A smaller class size would be better. It wasn't cheap. I could have bought a new rototiller or hot tub cover for the cost.
Most of the folks were from the Seattle Parks dept. Several had never even started a saw before, but the scariest guy was not them. I ended up with him as a partner. Thank goodness I'm in the habit of using the chain brake, (I will not elaborate) and that item is stressed.
Nobody had the bright orange clothes except the instructor. The logger and I were the only ones with the full brim tin hats, and the instructor pointed out that those were expensive, and probably the best protection to have.
There are advanced classes too. This one was held downriver from Vancouver, USA. They have to find a cooperative landowner who will allow trees to be cut.
The classes fill up fast.
I wrote up report on it that is somewhere on the forestry and logging forum. I'll go look.
It was geared for beginners. The instructor was from Wisconsin and we teased him endlessly over his pronunciation of Oregon, until he started saying, that company from the state across the river.
He taught the bore cut. But he discussed and demonstrated a few other cuts and stressed that the bore or poke (as one of the students named it) cut was NOT the only way to go. In fact, I ended up cutting my first tree in more what is the norm out here, except not a humboldt undercut. He did talk about looking up. Mostly prior TO putting the saw in the tree. I think most of us were not yet enough comfy with our saws to look up much whilst cutting. That includes me. I can watch rootwads and stuff whilst bucking, but am not comfy falling.
The class was good, but I felt it had too many people in it for going out and actually falling trees. A smaller class size would be better. It wasn't cheap. I could have bought a new rototiller or hot tub cover for the cost.
Most of the folks were from the Seattle Parks dept. Several had never even started a saw before, but the scariest guy was not them. I ended up with him as a partner. Thank goodness I'm in the habit of using the chain brake, (I will not elaborate) and that item is stressed.
Nobody had the bright orange clothes except the instructor. The logger and I were the only ones with the full brim tin hats, and the instructor pointed out that those were expensive, and probably the best protection to have.
There are advanced classes too. This one was held downriver from Vancouver, USA. They have to find a cooperative landowner who will allow trees to be cut.
The classes fill up fast.
I wrote up report on it that is somewhere on the forestry and logging forum. I'll go look.
http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/180525-9.htm
Like a lot of threads in that sector, there's a lot of kidding in the thread.
Here's more.
http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/181646.htm
Like a lot of threads in that sector, there's a lot of kidding in the thread.
Here's more.
http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/181646.htm
Metals406
Granfodder Runningsaw
The "farmer cut" refers to the cutting style, and isn't a slight against farmers at all. Just a nickname a sloping back-cut has received over the years.
A lot of farmers know proper face and back-cut, as well as many other people who might work different vocations other than logging.
My mechanic uses the sloping back-cut, because that's the way he was taught over on the east side in the Little Belts.
I've told him that it's not correct, to which he replied, "It works for me".
Slamm
Addicted to ArboristSite
I've never been to a GOL class, but I'm sure glad some of the vet loggers that I learned from had been to them up in Wisconsin, those "students" that were veteran loggers/cutters taught me some very smart and safe practices, that I feel gave me a great start on production cutting without getting myself killed.
Like everything the truth or facts are in the middle. Those PNW types that hate GOL almost to an irrational point aren't right, and anyone that thinks they can production cut just because they took a GOL class are wrong too. Bore cutting is a very safe method of cutting, a lot of different types of trees under quite a few different scenarios, but nobody claims it to be the fastest method, but in "MANY" cases it is the safest method if you are proficient in several different methods. Its not going to be proficient for someone who doesn't use it and isn't comfortable with it.
For the average Joe that is only going to cut a few trees per season or year or lifetime, learning and using the Bore Cut method is generally going to be the better route and the reason is simple. That method leaves holding wood on the backside almost like a padlock to hold the tree in place until you are really, really, really sure that you want to let it go. That is a big insurance policy for those that are less experienced in cutting down tree, if done just half way correctly you shouldn't have barberchairing and there shouldn't be any need for "racing the cut", especially for some nooby that doesn't know what or when to race the cut or probably doesn't have the balls to stay in there and keep cutting the back of the hinge when the tree starts to go over, because with bore cutting you get everything ready and then unlock the padlock and over she goes.
A lot of bore cut haters like to nit pick bad bore cutting/cutters, and thats fine, but I have shown many videos of decent sized trees going over just fine and fast and safe and exactly where I wanted them to go with bore cutting so there isn't anything inherently wrong with the method called bore cutting ................. if done correctly. Experience is the key to any method.
Making fun of rookies poorly executing a solid method is just as ignorant as claiming the method is faulty based on watching a rookie performing it. I extend that to some of these instructors "teaching" the method.
I recently attended a class that was started off with everything single speaker stated they had never logged and none were production cutters yet thats who we were suppose to learn from. At that point, I have more experience than they do, but they have something to teach, methods I need to check up on, so I add a grain of salt to their thoughts and methods and see where or how their "tools" will fit into my bag of tricks.
Bore cutting is a great method for cutting trees, its not always the fastest, but in a lot of cases it is one of the more safe methods to get a tree down.
That said, in a typical day of low quality timber I might use bore cutting about 20-30% of the time, and a lot of that is a variantion of bore cutting where I don't bore anything, but I leave a back strap, which is the main key for safety.
The rest of the percentage of cutting is in from the back and run to the hinge or cutting from the low side and around to the high side. That said, I find these faster methods much more unsafe for a rookie, due to the fact that things can happen much too quickly for them to read all of the signs of problems starting to happen, and before they know it things are falling down or over and they are commited good or bad to what happens next.
Sam
Like everything the truth or facts are in the middle. Those PNW types that hate GOL almost to an irrational point aren't right, and anyone that thinks they can production cut just because they took a GOL class are wrong too. Bore cutting is a very safe method of cutting, a lot of different types of trees under quite a few different scenarios, but nobody claims it to be the fastest method, but in "MANY" cases it is the safest method if you are proficient in several different methods. Its not going to be proficient for someone who doesn't use it and isn't comfortable with it.
For the average Joe that is only going to cut a few trees per season or year or lifetime, learning and using the Bore Cut method is generally going to be the better route and the reason is simple. That method leaves holding wood on the backside almost like a padlock to hold the tree in place until you are really, really, really sure that you want to let it go. That is a big insurance policy for those that are less experienced in cutting down tree, if done just half way correctly you shouldn't have barberchairing and there shouldn't be any need for "racing the cut", especially for some nooby that doesn't know what or when to race the cut or probably doesn't have the balls to stay in there and keep cutting the back of the hinge when the tree starts to go over, because with bore cutting you get everything ready and then unlock the padlock and over she goes.
A lot of bore cut haters like to nit pick bad bore cutting/cutters, and thats fine, but I have shown many videos of decent sized trees going over just fine and fast and safe and exactly where I wanted them to go with bore cutting so there isn't anything inherently wrong with the method called bore cutting ................. if done correctly. Experience is the key to any method.
Making fun of rookies poorly executing a solid method is just as ignorant as claiming the method is faulty based on watching a rookie performing it. I extend that to some of these instructors "teaching" the method.
I recently attended a class that was started off with everything single speaker stated they had never logged and none were production cutters yet thats who we were suppose to learn from. At that point, I have more experience than they do, but they have something to teach, methods I need to check up on, so I add a grain of salt to their thoughts and methods and see where or how their "tools" will fit into my bag of tricks.
Bore cutting is a great method for cutting trees, its not always the fastest, but in a lot of cases it is one of the more safe methods to get a tree down.
That said, in a typical day of low quality timber I might use bore cutting about 20-30% of the time, and a lot of that is a variantion of bore cutting where I don't bore anything, but I leave a back strap, which is the main key for safety.
The rest of the percentage of cutting is in from the back and run to the hinge or cutting from the low side and around to the high side. That said, I find these faster methods much more unsafe for a rookie, due to the fact that things can happen much too quickly for them to read all of the signs of problems starting to happen, and before they know it things are falling down or over and they are commited good or bad to what happens next.
Sam
forestryworks
Addicted to ArboristSite
"Until you have to do some serious wedging."
The "farmer cut" refers to the cutting style, and isn't a slight against farmers at all. Just a nickname a sloping back-cut has received over the years.
A lot of farmers know proper face and back-cut, as well as many other people who might work different vocations other than logging.
My mechanic uses the sloping back-cut, because that's the way he was taught over on the east side in the Little Belts.
I've told him that it's not correct, to which he replied, "It works for me".
Oh Ok
I know what your talking about, them drive me insane!!! And can't stand the sight of them and if I have the chance, I flush cut them and take the block of fire wood or two that they usally are on, depending on the height of the farmer that cut them.
homelitejim
Full of Scrap
watched a friend of mine nick his chaps with his 026 lucky he was wearing them. Would have been nice to have when my Poulan backed out of the cut with enough force to cut my leg with the back of the handle, still would have hurt but I might not have the cut just a bruise
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