Guys, don't get complacent out there!!!

[slowp]

One reason I went to the GOL because I was going to cut some smaller trees down for a friend. Bore cutting does not work in small trees averaging about 8 inches. I can't fit the bar in them. I was able to use it on one tree in the bunch, and it worked nicely, the tree swung a bit to where I wanted it to go. None of the other trees were large enough to fit an undercut and a bore cut in them.

Nope, I am not going to get a smaller bar.

 

[jropo]

One reason I went to the GOL because I was going to cut some smaller trees down for a friend. Bore cutting does not work in small trees averaging about 8 inches. I can't fit the bar in them. I was able to use it on one tree in the bunch, and it worked nicely, the tree swung a bit to where I wanted it to go. None of the other trees were large enough to fit an undercut and a bore cut in them.

Nope, I am not going to get a smaller bar.

I read if they are that small you just stump jump them.:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[PEKS]

Brad,
Glad your well..
It takes a lot of courage to admit your mistakes, let alone post a video of it..
This should help us all, it has for me..
Stay Safe..

 

[rwoods]

Well we could save ourselves a lot of arguing and expense if we all just watch tonight's episode of Hollylogging (aka AxeMen). No PPE or GOL courses required - just your trusty .44 magnum revolver. If the hot lead fails to bring your tree down then you can just use the gun barrel to pry it over. Ron

 

[sawinredneck]

Jesus! Lots of hogwash in this mess!
Glad you are alright Brad, hope you learned some things!
I can't, and wont say anything about wearing a helmet, I normally don't when falling, even though I have one and should, it limits my visibility, falls off my head at the wrong time etc. Excuses, I know, and I don't condone my behavior! What I do, is what I do, what you do is on you!
This GOL talk just makes me laugh! Sorry Brad, not calling you out on this but you admitted to it so I'm running with it. If you cut through the hinge, you cut through the hinge! I don't care if you bore cut it or not! You have NO CONTROL over the tree at that point! PERIOD! Brad made a horrific mistake and admitted to it! Bore cut or not, he boned the cut! I use bore cutting when I need to, but I'm damn sure not going to use it every cut because it's too dangerous in some situations! Then to insist to some beginning fallers to use it is fool hardy! I can just see some newbie with his brand new WalMart bought Wild thing trying to bore cut every tree he comes across cutting his leg off because he heard GOL was safer and had NO IDEA how to execute the cut!
Really, I'm shocked GOL was even brought up in this discussion, Brad admitted his fault, he cut the hinge, once that's done it's game over, I don't care how good you think you are! It's game over!
NOW!
In an attempt to make Brad feel like I'm not picking on him (I'm really not, this is good information to put out there!) About ten years ago I tried to cut my left thumb off with an angle grinder at the palm. 26 stitches and several weeks, all was fine. Seven years ago I succeeded with a mitre saw, right between the thumbnail and the knuckle. They cut my knuckle out and away we went. Friday night, I broke the nub that is left! Tearing out a floor in a bathroom to re-pipe it. 1/2" plywood with linoleum glued to it, I had a long crowbar pulling up while trying to shove a smaller pry bar in deeper with my other hand for another bite. Well the plywood tore right down the crowbar and smashed my thumb. I peed myself, I cried, and I said a lot of bad words! Nothing I can or could have done, #### happens! We try to learn, some of us are faster than others, some of us (ME!!) slower than others!
Thanks for sharing Brad!

 

[Mastermind]

Jesus! Lots of hogwash in this mess!
Glad you are alright Brad, hope you learned some things!
I can't, and wont say anything about wearing a helmet, I normally don't when falling, even though I have one and should, it limits my visibility, falls off my head at the wrong time etc. Excuses, I know, and I don't condone my behavior! What I do, is what I do, what you do is on you!
This GOL talk just makes me laugh! Sorry Brad, not calling you out on this but you admitted to it so I'm running with it. If you cut through the hinge, you cut through the hinge! I don't care if you bore cut it or not! You have NO CONTROL over the tree at that point! PERIOD! Brad made a horrific mistake and admitted to it! Bore cut or not, he boned the cut! I use bore cutting when I need to, but I'm damn sure not going to use it every cut because it's too dangerous in some situations! Then to insist to some beginning fallers to use it is fool hardy! I can just see some newbie with his brand new WalMart bought Wild thing trying to bore cut every tree he comes across cutting his leg off because he heard GOL was safer and had NO IDEA how to execute the cut!
Really, I'm shocked GOL was even brought up in this discussion, Brad admitted his fault, he cut the hinge, once that's done it's game over, I don't care how good you think you are! It's game over!
NOW!
In an attempt to make Brad feel like I'm not picking on him (I'm really not, this is good information to put out there!) About ten years ago I tried to cut my left thumb off with an angle grinder at the palm. 26 stitches and several weeks, all was fine. Seven years ago I succeeded with a mitre saw, right between the thumbnail and the knuckle. They cut my knuckle out and away we went. Friday night, I broke the nub that is left! Tearing out a floor in a bathroom to re-pipe it. 1/2" plywood with linoleum glued to it, I had a long crowbar pulling up while trying to shove a smaller pry bar in deeper with my other hand for another bite. Well the plywood tore right down the crowbar and smashed my thumb. I peed myself, I cried, and I said a lot of bad words! Nothing I can or could have done, #### happens! We try to learn, some of us are faster than others, some of us (ME!!) slower than others!
Thanks for sharing Brad!

I cut through the hinge on a 24" hickory I was dropping last summer.......90 degrees off in the wrong direction it went. I dropped the saw and ran like hell.

I saw the mistake I made and these days I take more time when felling. I'm watching closely, and at times making some marks on the stem with my saw to go by. This may sound insanely stupid and slow for guys that do this stuff for a living, but I'm just a guy that drops trees to heat my house...and I want to live.

 

[Gologit]

I cut through the hinge on a 24" hickory I was dropping last summer.......90 degrees off in the wrong direction it went. I dropped the saw and ran like hell.

I saw the mistake I made and these days I take more time when felling. I'm watching closely, and at times making some marks on the stem with my saw to go by. This may sound insanely stupid and slow for guys that do this stuff for a living, but I'm just a guy that drops trees to heat my house...and I want to live.

Nothing stupid about taking an extra minute or two to be safe. What counts is going home ...every time.

 

[jropo]

Jesus! Lots of hogwash in this mess!
Glad you are alright Brad, hope you learned some things!
I can't, and wont say anything about wearing a helmet, I normally don't when falling, even though I have one and should, it limits my visibility, falls off my head at the wrong time etc. Excuses, I know, and I don't condone my behavior! What I do, is what I do, what you do is on you!
This GOL talk just makes me laugh! Sorry Brad, not calling you out on this but you admitted to it so I'm running with it. If you cut through the hinge, you cut through the hinge! I don't care if you bore cut it or not! You have NO CONTROL over the tree at that point! PERIOD! Brad made a horrific mistake and admitted to it! Bore cut or not, he boned the cut! I use bore cutting when I need to, but I'm damn sure not going to use it every cut because it's too dangerous in some situations! Then to insist to some beginning fallers to use it is fool hardy! I can just see some newbie with his brand new WalMart bought Wild thing trying to bore cut every tree he comes across cutting his leg off because he heard GOL was safer and had NO IDEA how to execute the cut!
Really, I'm shocked GOL was even brought up in this discussion, Brad admitted his fault, he cut the hinge, once that's done it's game over, I don't care how good you think you are! It's game over!
NOW!
In an attempt to make Brad feel like I'm not picking on him (I'm really not, this is good information to put out there!) About ten years ago I tried to cut my left thumb off with an angle grinder at the palm. 26 stitches and several weeks, all was fine. Seven years ago I succeeded with a mitre saw, right between the thumbnail and the knuckle. They cut my knuckle out and away we went. Friday night, I broke the nub that is left! Tearing out a floor in a bathroom to re-pipe it. 1/2" plywood with linoleum glued to it, I had a long crowbar pulling up while trying to shove a smaller pry bar in deeper with my other hand for another bite. Well the plywood tore right down the crowbar and smashed my thumb. I peed myself, I cried, and I said a lot of bad words! Nothing I can or could have done, #### happens! We try to learn, some of us are faster than others, some of us (ME!!) slower than others!
Thanks for sharing Brad!

This makes sence, there is some good info in the manuals for beginners (if you bought a new saw or if you begged for the one for your used saw).

I don't think I'd recommend Gol to a person who has never ran a saw before due to the kick back potential alone, but Brad has ran a saw before, it might help him or he'll think its bs, that will be for him to decide if he decides to go forth.
I think he knows what to do, what he did wrong and how to prevent problems before he even steeped into the woods, just had a bad day, excited, and a lack of stump time.

So between the manual that goes w/ the saw and Gol, you either talk to a guy that has cut more trees than you have, or your up a creek.
And I'm sure this guy did neither and chose the creek.

View attachment 225111

View attachment 225112

I'm really surprised that this guy is still able to ride around on his 4 wheeler and drink beer.
Seems like the perfect example of guy buys saw, guy tosses manual, guy goes to cut tree.

 

[RandyMac]

Nobody is perfect. I misread this one, it came apart before it left the stump, I was still running when it hit the ground.

 

[jropo]

Nobody is perfect. I misread this one, it came apart before it left the stump, I was still running when it hit the ground.

I can only imagine the size of that tree.
Scary stuff.

 

[Hddnis]

Nothing stupid about taking an extra minute or two to be safe. What counts is going home ...every time.

Yep.

Nothing stupid about making guide marks and a little double checking either. In fact you'll find that is how pros do it. Some of the double checks you won't notice just watching because it happens with a quick glance, slight movement of the saw, almost imperceptable. Also why a pro can seem to size up a tree so fast, often just walking up to it, they've done it a thousand times and stuff registers quick for them. The things that make for a safe drop are the same for all skill levels, just that a rookie may not know what to do and will certainly take alot longer doing it.




Mr. HE

 

[mtfallsmikey]

That's a good point. From one perspective, it looked like the direction was obvious, but I don't think anyone here would plan a fall from a single photograph. It's a hindsight issue...it's easy to tell which way the lean is once the tree is falling.

Now that things have settled, I'm going to have another go at what I was trying to do in the first place. If it causes a stink, I hope someone will be able to pick something useful out of the ensuing mess.

I have nothing new to offer, but if there is something here that someone has not heard before, it is worth posting. This is just the way I do things, and I hope someone with more experience will offer some alternatives. There may be a few people on this site that have nothing to learn about falling, but I'm not one of them.

A big problem here was cutting through the holding wood. One way to avoid this is to dog-in where you want the back cut to end (or farther ahead for larger trees, with a "reset" once the first part of the backcut is parallel to the face).

For the sake of discussion, let's assume the lean was known, and this was a fall 90 degrees from that lean. from the description, the diameter of the tree made it necessary to do the backcut in 2 parts. Also from my interpretation (because the holding wood was severed), it seems the first part of the backcut was made on the side away from the lean. The lean was misread, so it wasn't a conscious decision, but the end result brings up a useful point when the lean is recognized.

In my view, the first part of the backcut should be on the side of the lean, so you have maximum holding against the lean. This should go a long way towards avoiding getting the bar pinched. I would start the second part of the backcut at a dogged in position maybe 45 degrees from being parallel to the face. The idea is to taper the holding wood so that it is thickest opposite the lean to swing the tree towards the face. If the tree doesn't start to go, then continue deepening the back cut so that the holding wood remains tapered.

In some cases, I have experimented with putting a Dutchman on the lean side, which closes as the tree shifts stopping the leanward movement of the tree if there is sufficient holding wood opposite the lean. This is supposed to shift the weight towards the face. My question is, would having a Dutchman in place make it more likely or less likely for the bar to get pinched while making the backcut?

I realize that all of the above is painfully obvious, but I'll gladly risk being obvious on the off chance that someone is not familiar with it.

I'd like to see a video of what you are talking about, Doesn't happen to me often but it does nonetheless.

 

[Birddog1]

happy to see that you are ok,it could have been a lot worst,you are very lucky,thanks for sharing Birddog

 

[edisto]

I'd like to see a video of what you are talking about, Doesn't happen to me often but it does nonetheless.

Madhatte mentioned he had a video of him using a Dutchman on a leaner in the logging forum. I had a quick look, but didn't find it. I'll look again...

 

[edisto]

Madhatte mentioned he had a video of him using a Dutchman on a leaner in the logging forum. I had a quick look, but didn't find it. I'll look again...

Still no luck...maybe madhatte can provide the link.

 

[madhatte]

Here 'tis. Note that it starts to bind, I power through, then it sits down good. You can't see the top, more's the pity, but in the time the bar was pinched, it rolled around about 120 degrees to miss a building on the left and a street on the right. Apologies for the poor video quality -- my good camera is dead and I only had my phone. This was the first time I'd attempted to swing a tree more than 90 degrees. I've since done a bunch more, and swung one about 180 degrees from its lean. Note that I'm not a faller, so I definitely take my time sizing things up. This was a hazard tree with heavy hanging branches all over it, damage from the ice storm we had a month or so ago.

[video=youtube_share;VMV86cpJqwc]http://youtu.be/VMV86cpJqwc[/video]

 

[edisto]

Thanks for posting it!

Although it's a little like the Loch Ness monster or Bigfoot videos...

 

[sawinredneck]

Sorry about my rant last night, been a crappy weekend!
Bore cutting has it's place and is a great tool to have in the toolbox, I just think it's foolhardy to bore every tree, that's all.
I had a bad one a few years ago, 36" standing dead Oak, decent head lean, around 17deg to the fall. Easy take down. The wind was blowing against the fall but no biggie there either.
I made a smallish face cut, it's got a head lean, right? Then started on the side away from me to set up the hinge, 32" bar, and proceeded as normal with the back cut. I got about halfway into the back cut and the wind shifted on me, into the fall now.
At this point I should have cut like mad and tried to "chase it off the stump", I didn't. I kept cutting and watching as normal, then I heard the "CRACK", I pulled the saw out and ran. I turned around just in time to watch it fall over. Wish I'd had taken pics of it, barber chaired about 11 ft up in the air, nasty mess!
Easily could have killed me! Lessons learned: always make a proper face cut! NEVER trust the wind in Kansas! If it's dead and has a head lean, bore cut it!
Nobody is perfect, no fall is the same as the last one and if you don't learn something each tree you take down, your already dead!

 

[edisto]

Sorry about my rant last night, been a crappy weekend!
Bore cutting has it's place and is a great tool to have in the toolbox, I just think it's foolhardy to bore every tree, that's all.

I actually had never heard of a bore cut until I got on this site. I had always cut a "triangle" into the holding wood (with the apex pointing at the start of the backcut) and chased leaners. Gives you less wood to get through (and therefore a faster cut) where the risk of barberchairing is the greatest.

This tree was actually the first time i used a bore cut. The distance from the stump to where the second piece stuck itself into the ground gives a better idea of the lean than the perspective offers. I cut a big open face on that one.

 

[Trx250r180]

I actually had never heard of a bore cut until I got on this site. I had always cut a "triangle" into the holding wood (with the apex pointing at the start of the backcut) and chased leaners. Gives you less wood to get through (and therefore a faster cut) where the risk of barberchairing is the greatest.

This tree was actually the first time i used a bore cut. The distance from the stump to where the second piece stuck itself into the ground gives a better idea of the lean than the perspective offers. I cut a big open face on that one.

if they are leaning this hard and think they are gonna barber chair a small relief cut on each side of the face cut will help prevent the barber chair also ,the alder and maple around here are real bad about that