Gypopinion please

[murphy4trees]

Hey Gypo,
What do you think of this back release... heavy front leaning ash.. contract was to drop in te woods and leave it alone

I guess the real question is what is a proper depth of the back strap if any... I've always seen it taught to just leave a small tab at back of the plunge cut. In this case I left about half the back cut for the tab... I suppose a smaller tab could help with escape time, but since I was already on my feet, it didn't make much difference... I got away quickly...

Is there any other factor affecting the back release I need to keep in mind? Rememeber I do not sell the wood...

I guess I just find it easier to cut forward into the back cut as usual...

 

[murphy4trees]

It may just be my imagination, but is seems like they start a little slower when the release fibers are deep... You can feel it starting to go and may actually have more escape time as a result..

 

[Stumper]

I'm not Gypo. (Boy, am I glad! ) Why the big tab? Why did you cut the release so low? Obviously it worked but it ain't pretty.

Okay , you 'splained part of it while I was typing. I don't realy get it though. If it is a front leaner already cut to the hinge you know it is going to fall as soon as the strap is severed. Make the strap smaller and slap chain to wood then retreat.

 

[NeTree]

Dan, is that in addition to or in lieu of a borecut?


Murphy, I prefer a smaller tab so I can nail it with the bar tip and be that much farther away, but your cut still accomplished the goal... cutting the barberchair area first.

Don't ya love those drop & chop jobs? Pretty rare around here, but we do get 'em once in awhile.

 

[NeTree]

Ok, gotcha. I would submit it's unnecessary with a proper bore cut, but if you like the cheap insurance it's not a bad idea. I mean, I doubt you'll ever come back wishing you HADN'T done it!

{How many times have people wished they'd used a smaller rope to rig stuff out, eh? =) )

 

[glens]

Dan'l,

I think you're flirting with disaster with such a heavy backstrap.  Obviously it worked, but I'd leave no more than half that much, myself.  I might even just continue the cut out the back if the situation suited me.

I love to just drop the tree into the woods and collect the cash!  I try not to leave them hung onto the stump like that, though.  Did you put it the rest of the way on the ground for the customer?  Mind sharing what a job like that goes for around there?

Glen

 

[leweee]

from a loggers point of view

Daniel
from a loggers point of view ... the mill pays the most money for the butt log. Log scale rules view fibre pull as a defect...hence .. we try to keep it to a minimum. boring thru the notch to make two hinge pieces.onthe same plane as the back cut. Bore cuts to establish the back of the hinge both sides (keep the hinge narrow to minimize fiber pull) Cut towards the back on both sides . Tab size is determined by lean,size of tree, spieces ,wind etc.(also the size of your gonades that day ....IYNWIM) we get paid the most if the fibre pull is towards the outside.


any tree felling you can walk away from after it's on the ground is GOOD

 

[xander9727]

I usually wrap the trunk a couple of times with grade 70 3/8 chain and tighten it with a racheting binder to ensure it doesn't barber chair.

 

[leweee]

no chance of a barber chair with the above mentioned tecknic .
barber chair occures when notch closes & hinge is too thick, tree stalls, then splits. Minumum hinge wood in forward leaner prevents this. Minumum hinge factures when notch closes,,,,hence ,,,,no chance of barber chair.

 

[xander9727]

Wouldn't it be prudent to say it greatly reduces the chance of barber chairing? There can always be hidden defects that can produce very unique problems.

 

[leweee]

in my humble opinion

done PROPERLY it reduces the chance to zero,,,,, notta ....zilch. hows dat?

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Is Gyponian like Draconian?

i think the closer the tab is to the pivot of the compressed area of the hinge, the less leverage the tab has (whcih could be dangerous in some situations); so Daniel's feel might come from sensing the pressure he is releasing more, for it is higher pressure; easier to feel?

i still think barber chair occurs in several forms as a split decision from the backcut not proceeding fast enough to release pressure; whether from slow backcut from rear or dutching from front, quick splintering etc. of the wood device in between the forces.

Another way i think is to leave a large triangle extending from hinge coners to a point at far back to backcut. There is now less material in general to backcut, so backcut can proceed faster wit same saw..

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Murphy, I tried twice to post a long and exhaustive reply, but alas, It got trashed with, "server could not be found".
As I recall, the gist of it was that although yours cuts were correct in principal and mechanics, your undercut may have been deeper and your plunge area smaller and all cuts on the same plane. Should you have more trees to cut on your technique would be down pat.
I can't stress enough how important it is to have a fast saw and a fast chain so the saw always beats the tree against gravity. This is where we gain those few important seconds.
John

 

[xander9727]

Re: in my humble opinion

Originally posted by leweee
done PROPERLY it reduces the chance to zero,,,,, notta ....zilch. hows dat?

Is it really a good idea to speak in absolutes. I'm sure there is someone on here that may have an example that disproves your assertion.

 

[NeTree]

Kinda tempting fate, isn't it?

 

[leweee]

A chain man.... how safe is that chain when it snaps and smacks you about the lookers cuz you thouhgt it was ABSOLUTELY safe & get careless about tecknic. Practice proper tecknic and leave the chain in the truck before you hurt yourself. Do it right and play safe. May the force be with you!

 

[NeTree]

Originally posted by leweee
A chain man.... how safe is that chain when it snaps and smacks you about the lookers cuz you thouhgt it was ABSOLUTELY safe & get careless about tecknic.

Pretty safe, if you're wearing the PPE you're supposed to be wearing.

 

[leweee]

Trust me Erik.. you don't need a chain compllicating the problem. Your wussy PPE is no match for chain. This ain't rocket science...just a simple tree dumping. Do it right FORGET the chain.
My work is done here... may common sense prevail.AMEN!

 

[NeTree]

That was a rhetorical remark.

Correct; cut properly, barberchair isn't even an issue. That's what bore cuts are for.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16149