Stumper
One Man Band
Yeah, It is that bad everywhere.
Hack Daddies
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timberfell
ArboristSite Member
On the way home from work last Saturday, I stopped to watch a local tree service in action. They were using a bucket truck to remove 2 silver maples (36'' dbh, 65') in the front yard of a home.
First, neither guy was wearing a helmet or saftey glasses.
The guy in the bucket truck had no harness on and was not strapped in whatsoever.
He was cosistantly hanging out making one handed cuts with a 55 husky. With his free hand he was pushing the wood over while still throttling the saw. We're talking about 14'' to 18'' pieces here. Of course he wasn't using a notch, just cutting clean through. As he pushed the pieces over they were ripping about 1' down. Keep in mind that the whole time he was running his saw (without a lanyard) the ground man was putsing around under him.
And you know what takes the cake??
There was no reason to have the bucket in there in the first place. Both trees could have been felled safely from the ground.
After about 15 minutes of watching this I decided I'd seen enough.
First, neither guy was wearing a helmet or saftey glasses.
The guy in the bucket truck had no harness on and was not strapped in whatsoever.
He was cosistantly hanging out making one handed cuts with a 55 husky. With his free hand he was pushing the wood over while still throttling the saw. We're talking about 14'' to 18'' pieces here. Of course he wasn't using a notch, just cutting clean through. As he pushed the pieces over they were ripping about 1' down. Keep in mind that the whole time he was running his saw (without a lanyard) the ground man was putsing around under him.
And you know what takes the cake??
There was no reason to have the bucket in there in the first place. Both trees could have been felled safely from the ground.
After about 15 minutes of watching this I decided I'd seen enough.
Same here too.
Got a 'bells and whistles' tree service in town listing (of course) it's membership in ISA. What you just described is them working.
I'm not sure if I feel any worse about the Jaun and Pedro w/ pick-up and a step ladder than I do about the mega-buck big boys w' half-page ads and certified memberships and uniforms.
I guess that's a principle for us here - at least keep it sane within a corps we're helpful and assisting with. I love this site, and in spite of ya'll having to read my endless critiques of ourselves in the global theater, ya'll been and are a pretty good bunch of compadres.
I wouldn't call them "illegitimate" so much, but they appear to be the industry norm. Like the truck ads on T.V. and the purple pills we're suppossed to ask our doctors about. By the way the new pill out there, as with a couple others getting airtime during primetime....what are they for anyway?
Got a 'bells and whistles' tree service in town listing (of course) it's membership in ISA. What you just described is them working.
I'm not sure if I feel any worse about the Jaun and Pedro w/ pick-up and a step ladder than I do about the mega-buck big boys w' half-page ads and certified memberships and uniforms.
I guess that's a principle for us here - at least keep it sane within a corps we're helpful and assisting with. I love this site, and in spite of ya'll having to read my endless critiques of ourselves in the global theater, ya'll been and are a pretty good bunch of compadres.
I wouldn't call them "illegitimate" so much, but they appear to be the industry norm. Like the truck ads on T.V. and the purple pills we're suppossed to ask our doctors about. By the way the new pill out there, as with a couple others getting airtime during primetime....what are they for anyway?
treeman82
Addicted to ArboristSite
The well known companies over here, as far as I have seen are alright on safety. I have heard a couple things about Save-A-Tree, but don't know enough to point out specific instances. The companies like Bartlett, TCOT, Save-A-Tree, Serpe, are pretty good as far as I can tell. The little guys though, and even a bunch of the ones who have >10 people working for them aren't too keen on safety or proper tree care. Not to generalize, but that is the bulk of what I see around here.
Proliferation of Hacks
Austin was hard hit by the dot com bust since the tech sector was the driving force here in town. A bunch of people moved back to California. $5K residential jobs aren't on every corner anymore and tree companies are down sizing. Several mid range companies have just closed their doors.
What I didn't expect was a proliferation of hacks. Tons of trucks with rented trailers doing tree work. Joe's Tree Care, Hector's Tree Care, etc.....
My take on it is this, proper tree care is a superior product, consumption of this service increases as a consumer's income increases. Hack and slash tree care is an inferior product, like Ramen noodles, a consumer's consumption of this product/service increases as their income decreases.
It ain't a Florida thing. Sucks here too - my signature is more than just a catchy phrase.
.02
Austin was hard hit by the dot com bust since the tech sector was the driving force here in town. A bunch of people moved back to California. $5K residential jobs aren't on every corner anymore and tree companies are down sizing. Several mid range companies have just closed their doors.
What I didn't expect was a proliferation of hacks. Tons of trucks with rented trailers doing tree work. Joe's Tree Care, Hector's Tree Care, etc.....
My take on it is this, proper tree care is a superior product, consumption of this service increases as a consumer's income increases. Hack and slash tree care is an inferior product, like Ramen noodles, a consumer's consumption of this product/service increases as their income decreases.
It ain't a Florida thing. Sucks here too - my signature is more than just a catchy phrase.
.02
If I were an OSHA inspector working on commision I'd be filthy rich.
Hacks everywhere!! I don't have a problem at all selling proper tree care, I think people are blown away because I actually care about the long term health of their trees and will typically go with what I suggest. Of course there are those people who know more than me and don't care to listen or hear what I have to say and most often with those people my price is way to high. Oh well....
This place is like an oasis in the desert.
Greg
Hacks everywhere!! I don't have a problem at all selling proper tree care, I think people are blown away because I actually care about the long term health of their trees and will typically go with what I suggest. Of course there are those people who know more than me and don't care to listen or hear what I have to say and most often with those people my price is way to high. Oh well....
This place is like an oasis in the desert.
Greg
Stumper
One Man Band
Oakwilt hit an important fact-it isn't a big or small company issue. 82 is correct that the truly large outfits usually require safety gear-but their employees generallly don't really know trees. (For all the exceptional Davey and Apslundh employees my apologies-but surely you've noticed that many of your compatriots are Tree Dilberts?!)
DTE is correct that Colorado seems to be better than many places but I assure you-The majority of people doing tree work here don't know dimes from donut holes about trees.
DTE is correct that Colorado seems to be better than many places but I assure you-The majority of people doing tree work here don't know dimes from donut holes about trees.
treeman82
Addicted to ArboristSite
Brian, have you considered going to work at a large estate? There are a few around here where they have live in groundskeepers who do the tree work, the lawns, the gardens, whatever needs to be done. I talked with one guy who has been working for some people for over 25 years. He told me that if he wants a piece of equipment, he just goes and gets it and they pay for it. Something like that might be good for you? They want the job done right, its steady work and steady pay, benefits, etc.
treeman82
Addicted to ArboristSite
Stumper, I was hinting more towards how a bunch of the medium sized companies over here don't know what they are doing. Yeah, they can get a tree to the ground, but they don't obey the Z, few if any wear helmets, never wear chaps, nobody double tied when using a chain saw, etc. Most of the medium sized companies around here that I know of are pretty much logging tree companies, they are focused on removals and when it comes to pruning or PHC.... well Bunch of them wear gaffs on pruning, those guys will also top trees. The ones who stand out here as being good companies are either small operations, or are really big operations.
Bunch of them wear gaffs on pruning, those guys will also top trees. The ones who stand out here as being good companies are either small operations, or are really big operations.
Ryan Willock
Addicted to ArboristSite
You pretty much described the majority of tree companys around here
I thought of taking one of those gigs when I was single. Not bad for the single life. Get to live in a nice guest house rent free, take care of the trees and the green stuff. All of which can be done leaving a few days a week to whore yourself out to local tree companies as a contract climber.
Pulling weeds, pushing a mower, walking the dog, and being someone's on site biznitch - no thanks.
With the right gig, it could be nice.
Takes connections.
Indentured servant, LMAO. 40 acres and a mule!!
Brian, I get burnt out from time to time too. It is not climbing or tree work that I get burnt out on, it is all of the incompetent people involved around tree care. Customers, other "arborists", other "climbers", landscrapers, landscrapers trying to resell my work, people who don't realize that this IS what I do for a living. Why listen to me? what could I possibly know? I climb trees for a living............
If you are burnt out, get away for a bit. Trust me on this one. It helps me find a healthier attitude. I have been out of town, out of state, and out of country several times this year. I think that is all that keeps me sane. I sure am lookin' forward to TCI. Getting out of town costs but if I was all about cash, I wouldn't be climbing trees. Hate to think how burnt out I would get if I had a desk job.........
Pulling weeds, pushing a mower, walking the dog, and being someone's on site biznitch - no thanks.
With the right gig, it could be nice.
Takes connections.
Indentured servant, LMAO. 40 acres and a mule!!
Brian, I get burnt out from time to time too. It is not climbing or tree work that I get burnt out on, it is all of the incompetent people involved around tree care. Customers, other "arborists", other "climbers", landscrapers, landscrapers trying to resell my work, people who don't realize that this IS what I do for a living. Why listen to me? what could I possibly know? I climb trees for a living............
If you are burnt out, get away for a bit. Trust me on this one. It helps me find a healthier attitude. I have been out of town, out of state, and out of country several times this year. I think that is all that keeps me sane. I sure am lookin' forward to TCI. Getting out of town costs but if I was all about cash, I wouldn't be climbing trees.
Hate to think how burnt out I would get if I had a desk job.........
treeslayer
Addicted to ArboristSite
come to VA. Brian, come to VA.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Here in the Milwaukee Metro area it is pretty good. We have a few hacks and idiots, but the majority leand professional.
DDM
Addicted to ArboristSite
O brians just picking on me again.
NeTree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Now you see guys, it's crap like that that finally pushed me to start my own company... despite all the additional headaches it involves.
Priority 1- Safety!. All the money means nothing if you and your crew aren't alive or healthy enough to enjoy it.
Priority 2- Quality. I don't want people seeing my trucks and T-shirts and thinking "Gee, what a bunch of whackos".
Priority 3- Happy customers. Do a good job, and they might tell a friend. Do a bad job, and they'll tell EVERYONE.
Quantity isn't a problem for me. I'm as busy as I want to be.
Priority 1- Safety!. All the money means nothing if you and your crew aren't alive or healthy enough to enjoy it.
Priority 2- Quality. I don't want people seeing my trucks and T-shirts and thinking "Gee, what a bunch of whackos".
Priority 3- Happy customers. Do a good job, and they might tell a friend. Do a bad job, and they'll tell EVERYONE.
Quantity isn't a problem for me. I'm as busy as I want to be.
A few good companies in Portland. Mostly hacks here, nearly all prune in hooks, some who don't gut the trees and do no end work. The PHC programs I've seen were geared toward production, spray as many times per year as the customer will pay for whether it's needed or not.
What can be done about it?
The PHC programs I've seen were geared toward production, spray as many times per year as the customer will pay for whether it's needed or not.What can be done about it
?Lumberjack
Banned
Around here there is Asplund, not really a competitor, they just do line clearing and other contract work; but when it comes to saftey and equipment even my small enterprise takes the cake. A guy I use to contract for to clean up brush would think nothing of taking his spikes and climbing up 40 foot without putting his lanyard around the tree. He used an old buckstrap that was about worn through. Then thre is another guy who uses a buckstrap and ect with spikes, only thing is is that ALL of his equipment is 25 years old and he got it used. He has two ropes to pull stuff over and to natural crotch noone as far as I can tell uses block, steel cored fliplines or anything advanced. They use used ropes the get for free from weyerhaeuser and spikes and that is it.
Guy Meilleur
Addicted to ArboristSite
Brian, last week after you melted down over the UPS man walking under you, you said there were "hundreds" of tree services in your area to work for. Now there aren't any. This wouldn't have anything to do with being so hard to get along with, would it?
In VA they'll love you when you get that tree off their house. But when you show intolerance for tree owners' lack of knowledge you will be back on the road. If you flame
a little less, all your bridges won't be burnt behind you.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Re: Re: Hack Daddies
Ha! That'll be the day. Methinks people skills aren't a high priority with Brian.
Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
If you flame
Ha! That'll be the day. Methinks people skills aren't a high priority with Brian.
Guy Meilleur
Addicted to ArboristSite
Re: Re: Re: Hack Daddies
Client this morning--new homeowner--lost 2 trees to root damage. Builder swore he "didn't change grade", then I dug thru redclay fill to show tornup roots. He went as red as the clay, while she talked about unmanageable subs, yadayada.
I told her she was entitled to not only removal cost--$2500--but refund of tree value, since he sold them to her fraudulently. Most clients pursue, but she didn't, so he's empowered to rape the next grove and figure he'll get away with it.
I was ready to blow up, but knew it wouldn't make me or the profession look good. I'll chop wood instead, and see that lyin scums face in the wood as the maul goes in.:angel:
That's why scratching for work is now a necessity. It's hard enough carving a niche that fits you; impossible if you don't fit with those who're paying you.
Client this morning--new homeowner--lost 2 trees to root damage. Builder swore he "didn't change grade", then I dug thru redclay fill to show tornup roots. He went as red as the clay, while she talked about unmanageable subs, yadayada.
I told her she was entitled to not only removal cost--$2500--but refund of tree value, since he sold them to her fraudulently. Most clients pursue, but she didn't, so he's empowered to rape the next grove and figure he'll get away with it.
I was ready to blow up, but knew it wouldn't make me or the profession look good. I'll chop wood instead, and see that lyin scums face in the wood as the maul goes in.:angel:
