Handled Ascender???

[rahtreelimbs]

I tried using a handled ascender above my VT on hip thrusting today. With all the short climbs, hip thrusting was better than footlocking. Anyway, the nice thing is that the handled ascender was a lot easier on the hands. The only problem is that the climbing rope won't fall thru. This handled ascender was not connected to anything, I was just using it as a means of grabbing the rope. Anyone ever tried this? Also, any suggestions on how to get the rope to fall thru?

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
It took me a minute to figure it out. At first I thought you meant the rope wouldn't fall through the ascender, but you are talking about the rope not falling through your VT hitch.

It was easy on my end to understand. I obviously didn't explain it very well. Thanx Brian.

 

[Tree Machine]

Mebbe use the ascender with the VT above it as the backup? An ascender offers (essentially) zero friction and the benefit of the handle, as you've come to understand, is a very worthy benefit.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

This is only a means of getting a better grip on the rope. You know, after climbing all day your hands start to burn ( no I don't where gloves ) and sometimes cramp up. I am just clipping this above my hitch as a means of taking some of the stress off of my hands. Mind you, the jury is still very much out on this application. I felt it was worth a look into!

 

[Tree Machine]

I am sorry I posted. You must excuse my ignorance. No, I do not use this system. I don't even use the traditional DbRT, nor do I use a VT to back up my ascender. I'll use a variety of hitches to back up the ascenders, though often just a simple prussik. It all depends how creative I feel that day in wanting to try something out of my normal ordinary.

What I honestly thought I was suggesting was to have the VT in place, above the ascenders, before going up. Once up in the crown, flipline in, remove the ascenders, work off your VT.

Not actually using your system, I didn't realize that it would be quite so involved and complicated. Now I understand why I don't do it that way. Thank you. I'll shut up now.

 

[Tree Machine]

ps In the posted photo, I was demonstrating ways in which to back up the ascender. Since it was a ground demo I grabbed the first biner my hands found, which was a steel non-locker. I always use a triple lock for this application.

Still, I set it up that way, go up, clip the ascenders to the saddle and go about business. I'm confused as to why it has to be more difficult than that.

Also, Rah, I recommend wearing uglies. When I forget to wear them, my abilities plummet.

 

[Reed]

Maybe I'm in violation but I dangle a handled Petzl ascender from a screw-lock on my right hip and a braided (for shortness and quick deployment)10-foot non-steel-cored flip line on my left. A microscender has to be threaded, a Pantin or a schwabish or a looped tail would take too long to secure. And, it's just there for any reason.

That's my tie-in lanyard. When the gate's open, insertion is a two finger operation, a one-thumb to close. When secured to rig a controlled big drop I add a extra little investment to the gate - piece of mind. Inspection every few minutes, replacement of flip line and gate a few times now.

Is that wrong?

 

[Tree Machine]

I can see the swiftness of the system, the instant adjustability and quick on / off time. I imagine when you're not using the flipline, and you don't want it dangling, you wrap around your waist 3X and clip the tail back into the ascender, yes?

All good, however, the ascender is not backed up. The likelihood of it accidentally opening is remote, but lets say you are spiking up to do a removal, planning to set rope once you get up there. You're not on rope yet, you're not using a saw yet, you're just going up, say, a limbless spar, just spikes and flipline for the time. A momentary slip, the scraping bark opens the cam. We read about you in another section of this website a couple days later.

Hypothetical?, yes. Likely?, no. Possible? We know it's possible. This sort of thing being mebbe a likely reason a lot of climbers poo poo the idea of using ascenders in tree care.

Personally, I love my ascenders and can't imagine my professional life without them. When I demo an ascent with a friction hitch, I get friction, which is great if moving through a crown or on descent, but in going up, it lets me know why so many guys expend so much energy and have such a hard time with the simple footlock technique.

Backing up ascenders is really important, whether on a flipline, or going up a rope. I consider ascenders (most models, but certainly not all makes) fairly bombproof, but 'fairly' isn't 'completely 100%'. Petzl is a great model. Thanks for sharing your flipline system with us.

 

[Reed]

Yes, I do "stow" it as you describe. I agree with the 100% rule, sometimes my mind locks on a paranoia about the cam or the thumb-set that could hook accidently, and I tend to pay attention to those moments of precognition.

What I do though, clear spar or tangled maze of limbs, is always set the climbing line first - old habits die hard. Blake's and micropulley, my Bluestreak's weight (or a helpful often 'tug') and the hard-to-break habit of body thrusting is my forte.

The rush of spar wobble, heights and views, and a job well done is still always tempered by an often not admitted fear of dropping all that way down - not too the point of affecting my efficiency, but a healthy understanding of the job at task. I had an antenna to climb here for t.v. reception (tri-post free standing) the wife insisted I adjust, about 70 feet. No climbing line, just the flipline as I described. Kind of like the South Carolina pines I used to do. I was scared $hitless. Wobbled no more than a topping on a 90-footer. It was that ascender that bothered me. I backed it up with a child's version of knots on knots....a clustered mess of rope designed out of fear, not easily undone when job finished. Felt like an idiot and glad no one watched.

The thread I never want to be posted-on about is the Accident and Death one, at least as a fall-subject matter. Death by Grizzly bear is another matter. I hear ya. Might just try a change for this olding dog here. Thanks.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Originally posted by TreeCo
Rich,

If hip thrusting is wearing your out try the Pantin. Or footlock the tail. Use those big leg muscles and save your arms for the precision work. Unless you are built different than most of us your legs are 3 or more times stronger than your arms.

Dan

Good point. Hip thrusting is not wearing me out so to speak. I am just exploring the ascender as a means of having an easier grip on the rope. In the summer time I just can't wear gloves.