Help me Stihl gurus...031AV

[Lakeside53]

If you use purple cleaner diluted 4:1 you can just wash off the crud with a low pressure garden hose. I plug the muffler by inserting a strip of rubber between the muffer and cylinder, then retighten. Works well for the carb side also. If I really care I pressurise the saw though the impulse hose and drop the entire thing in bucket of cleaner.

Make sure your ball hone is 320 grit.. I haven't had any problem with a minute or two in a bad cylinder.. but much less is much better. Take Scott's advise and do most of it by hand.

 

[ScottWojo]

If you use purple cleaner diluted 4:1 you can just wash off the crud with a low pressure garden hose. I plug the muffler by inserting a strip of rubber between the muffer and cylinder, then retighten. Works well for the carb side also. If I really care I pressurise the saw though the impulse hose and drop the entire thing in bucket of cleaner.

Make sure your ball hone is 320 grit.. I haven't had any problem with a minute or two in a bad cylinder.. but much less is much better. Take Scott's advise and do most of it by hand.

Andy,
If you hone a cylinder with a drill for a minute or two, you will absolutely destroy it. Never, under any circumstances, should you hone longer than 10 seconds. 10 seconds up and down is more than enough to develop the cross hatching. In fact longer will eat into the ports and the transfers, especially with a ball hone.

With Great Esteem,
Scott.

 

[b1rdman]

What do you guys think about the pics?

Save the jug and scrap the piston?

 

[Lakeside53]

Andy,
If you hone a cylinder with a drill for a minute or two, you will absolutely destroy it. Never, under any circumstances, should you hone longer than 10 seconds. 10 seconds up and down is more than enough to develop the cross hatching. In fact longer will eat into the ports and the transfers, especially with a ball hone.

With Great Esteem,
Scott.

Guess none of my repaired saws work then! Hmmm.. wonder why they haven't come back It takes what it takes.. sometimes you're trying to recover a disaster, and it takes longer... Sure you're wearing the coatings, and with damaged coating, that's aften what you're trying to do.. but.. the option is a new cylinder. As for beating the edges of the ports - a little, but I don't see a lot of material change for the worse. Often it looks better than factory.

Your advise is good.. Less is always better.. but...

I did rough unscientific experiments with a well "broken in" 320 grit SC ball hone and various junk cylinders.. after 20 minutes I still hadn't eaten though the nickersil on an 026. Try a couple for grins. Obviously the cut rate will depend on your lube and shape of the ball tips. I never use a new hone on a cylinder without beating it down a little in an old jug or water pipe.


I'd say most of mine are 10-30 seconds. I stop every 5-10 seconds to wipe it clean and check the progress. A few have been much much longer..

 

[Lakeside53]

What do you guys think about the pics?

Save the jug and scrap the piston?

Your cylinder pictiures did not post -they are just "red x". Usually this means you have them shown on your screen because they are cached locally.

Clear your browser cache and upload them, or whatever.

 

[b1rdman]

Your cylinder pictiures did not post -they are just "red x". Usually this means you have them shown on your screen because they are cached locally.

Clear your browser cache and upload them, or whatever.

Thanks, I fixed it.

 

[Lakeside53]

now we see them..

Try to save it.. by hand if you don't want to "invest" in a ball hone...

 

[ScottWojo]

Guess none of my repaired saws work then! Hmmm.. wonder why they haven't come back It takes what it takes.. sometimes you're trying to recover a disaster, and it takes longer... Sure you're wearing the coatings, and with damaged coating, that's aften what you're trying to do.. but.. the option is a new cylinder. As for beating the edges of the ports - a little, but I don't see a lot of material change for the worse. Often it looks better than factory.

Your advise is good.. Less is always better.. but...

I did rough unscientific experiments with a well "broken in" 320 grit SC ball hone and various junk cylinders.. after 20 minutes I still hadn't eaten though the nickersil on an 026. Try a couple for grins. Obviously the cut rate will depend on your lube and shape of the ball tips. I never use a new hone on a cylinder without beating it down a little in an old jug or water pipe.


I'd say most of mine are 10-30 seconds. I stop every 5-10 seconds to wipe it clean and check the progress. A few have been much much longer..

Andy, really not trying to get into a pissing contest but I only speak from experiance. I have used a hone on an expensive 066 jug and trashed it. Used it too long trying to remove too much.

Some guys will use JB weld to repair fuel components. And just cuz it will work, and chances are really good that the saw will never blow up and kill its operator, does not mean that it should be the correct way to do things.

And if you clear out your message box, would love to continue in private.

Scott

 

[b1rdman]

031 ----> 45 mm right?

so this one?

http://store.baileys-online.com/cgi-bin/baileys/6048?&product_sku=320SC 45

 

[ScottWojo]

031 ----> 45 mm right?

so this one?

http://store.baileys-online.com/cgi-bin/baileys/6048?&product_sku=320SC 45

Looking at that cylinder, It really looks as though you could just knock down the aluminum with muratic acid and then just use sand paper. Put the saw back together with the piston and see if you have good compression. If its good, then leave it.

Most times I don't get that lucky saving cylinders. But that one really looks like it could be saved.

And give Andy your adress so he can give you one of those parts that is JB'd on your saw. He has a bucket full.

Scott.

 

[Dan Forsh]

Andy, really not trying to get into a pissing contest but I only speak from experiance. I have used a hone on an expensive 066 jug and trashed it. Used it too long trying to remove too much.

Some guys will use JB weld to repair fuel components. And just cuz it will work, and chances are really good that the saw will never blow up and kill its operator, does not mean that it should be the correct way to do things.

And if you clear out your message box, would love to continue in private.

Scott

Why not share with the rest of the class?:monkey:

 

[greengoblin]

Why not share with the rest of the class?:monkey:

Uh oh....time to find a bunker to hide in.

 

[ScottWojo]

Why not share with the rest of the class?:monkey:

Dan,
Actually the thing about honing cylinders for 2 minutes was something I tried to send privately.
To me that's the equivelent of telling someone to use a match to look into a fuel can to see how much gas is in it. I guess its possible that sometimes it will work just fine, but the majority of time you can expect to have something bad happen.
Even Baileys suggests 20-35 seconds at the most.

And this guy will be using a brand new hone, not the majical one that Andy uses, that has probably been used to hone out millions of 031's for countless years on end non stop.


Scott.

 

[b1rdman]

Scott, what about the piston?

It looks MUCH worse than the cylinder. What should I do with that?

 

[ScottWojo]

Scott, what about the piston?

It looks MUCH worse than the cylinder. What should I do with that?

Replace with a new one or if you can find a good used P&C set from the same saw, do that.

Unless one of the other guys knows how to save the piston, it would be news to me.

Scott.

 

[Dan Forsh]

Dan,
Actually the thing about honing cylinders for 2 minutes was something I tried to send privately.
To me that's the equivelent of telling someone to use a match to look into a fuel can to see how much gas is in it. I guess its possible that sometimes it will work just fine, but the majority of time you can expect to have something bad happen.
Even Baileys suggests 20-35 seconds at the most.

And this guy will be using a brand new hone, not the majical one that Andy uses, that has probably been used to hone out millions of 031's for countless years on end non stop.


Scott.

See, that is exactly the point I was making. If you come right out and say it people will know to think twice and proceed with caution.

 

[Tzed250]

Guess none of my repaired saws work then! Hmmm.. wonder why they haven't come back It takes what it takes.. sometimes you're trying to recover a disaster, and it takes longer... Sure you're wearing the coatings, and with damaged coating, that's aften what you're trying to do.. but.. the option is a new cylinder. As for beating the edges of the ports - a little, but I don't see a lot of material change for the worse. Often it looks better than factory.

Your advise is good.. Less is always better.. but...

I did rough unscientific experiments with a well "broken in" 320 grit SC ball hone and various junk cylinders.. after 20 minutes I still hadn't eaten though the nickersil on an 026. Try a couple for grins. Obviously the cut rate will depend on your lube and shape of the ball tips. I never use a new hone on a cylinder without beating it down a little in an old jug or water pipe.


I'd say most of mine are 10-30 seconds. I stop every 5-10 seconds to wipe it clean and check the progress. A few have been much much longer..

My experience jives with the Lakemeisters. Plenty of MX and roadrace cylinders with near 0% leakdown make me think it works. The match in the gas can analogy can be seen another way.

Trying to tell Andy how to use a Flex-hone to clean up a cylinder is like telling Bill Gates how to write software.

opcorn:

 

[PES+]

May I ask a question Scott?

I am just wondering if you saw the coating worn away from the cylinder you used the ball hone on?

Nikasil is quite hard and it looks like this may be partly a matter of semantics.

The hardness of the coating is indeed harder than the abrasive in the hones so is it possible that the ball hone tore the coating at the ports?

I have seen quite a few like that form others not being careful.

The other cause of plating failure that I have observed is from using muriatic acid with too long a waiting period before neutralizing and cleaning.

If there is any small pit that allows a break in the coating the acid finds its way into the aluminum which then ruins the plating bond around the spot which usually will then cause further peeling of the coating after the saw is run.

 

[Lakeside53]

Dan,
Actually the thing about honing cylinders for 2 minutes was something I tried to send privately.
To me that's the equivelent of telling someone to use a match to look into a fuel can to see how much gas is in it. I guess its possible that sometimes it will work just fine, but the majority of time you can expect to have something bad happen.
Even Baileys suggests 20-35 seconds at the most.

And this guy will be using a brand new hone, not the majical one that Andy uses, that has probably been used to hone out millions of 031's for countless years on end non stop.


Scott.

My PM box is full and has been for a while, but you can use the Email function. It means I get to know you return email, but..

Actually, I don't mind discussing such things openly. If I'm wrong, then that's fine I never feel bad about anyone telling me so... and I almost never bear a grudge

I have about 7 hones.. about half are near new and are used for the "finishing touches". The "ridge to valley" of the crosshatch suffers on a badly worn balls - probably clogged surfaces. The older units I use to beat upon crappy cylinders..if they show signs of life, they get the newer hone finish.

Using a hone much to large for the bore can definitely affect the ports, but I can't say I've has any problems.

 

[ScottWojo]

My PM box is full and has been for a while, but you can use the Email function. It means I get to know you return email, but..

Actually, I don't mind discussing such things openly. If I'm wrong, then that's fine I never feel bad about anyone telling me so... and I almost never bear a grudge

I have about 7 hones.. about half are near new and are used for the "finishing touches". The "ridge to valley" of the crosshatch suffers on a badly worn balls - probably clogged surfaces. The older units I use to beat upon crappy cylinders..if they show signs of life, they get the newer hone finish.

Using a hone much to large for the bore can definitely affect the ports, but I can't say I've has any problems.

Okie Dokie,

I stand corrected. I will not hone my stuff for more than 5 seconds though.
So do you just hone the cylinders or do you you use sand paper first to remove aluminum?
Again, if b1rdman needs a piston and cylinder, let me know. Also, I would hope that Andy would make avail one of his non-JB replacement parts.
Scott.