Help with OWB, is my pump right?

[Timbercreek]

I asked him about the 8gpm and the 2400-45 vs the 0013. He said i had enough flow.

The oil burner loop has been discussed alot, its the circuit i reversed the pump on.
So my house is plumbed like a regular hot water oil burner. The the exception of basically 1 more zone. This zone runs 24/7 and is the plate exchanger.
Heatmor says this is wrong, plate exchanger should just be part of the oil furnace loop.
To be exact, cold water returning from zones should go to oil in, and oil out should into the cold side of the oil furnace. No pump needed. When a zone calls, it circulates the water it needs and heats it. Also the water going through ofurnace is already hot eliminating the call for heat.
Right now my plate "zone" is pulling its water from the top of furnace, to plate in, and plate out is dumping with the zone returns at bottom of furnace. Hence why i tried reversing the pump, but the x flow on plate makes a huge difference.

 

[NSMaple1]

The exception of basically 1 more zone. This zone runs 24/7 and is the plate exchanger.

OK, that definitely doesn't sound right. I also don't remember you saying that's the way it was before.

Heatmor says this is wrong, plate exchanger should just be part of the oil furnace loop.

That's the way I thought it was to start with.

No pump needed.

You still would need a pump to pump your oil furnace loop & flow through the zones. Isn't that what the 007 does?

I asked him about the 8gpm and the 2400-45 vs the 0013. He said i had enough flow.

But did he say how much gpm is needed through the boiler? You didn't clarify that in the conversation? The 8 is specd in the trouble shooting section of at least one manual, to avoid 'temp layering' in the boiler. And from all you have posted re. temps in all parts of the boiler & temps of water leaving the boiler and getting to the HX, 'temp layering' seems to be problem number 1 here. Did he say what the temp spread should be between the dial guage on the front, and water leaving the bottom supply? Or elaborate any more on the OWB side itself? Not quite sure how he could say you had enough flow if he was getting all the info that was supplied over the course of this thread - wondering exactly what he was basing the call of having enough flow on. I still don't think you will see much of an improvement even if you correct the oil side plumbing, as there will still not be an increase in how much heat is being brought to the OWB side of the HX. I always stand to be corrected though, if that somehow works out.

 

[Oxford]

I can't help myself.

Him saying you have enough flow seems to me to be a little questionable, given the difference between the temperature at the top and the bottom of your boiler. It is going to be difficult to heat the space with radiant heat if your supply water temp to the baseboard is as cool as the temperatures you've been quoting, especially at design outdoor temperatures. Probably fine when it's 40 outside, not so much when it's 0.

You are again describing your system differently for about the tenth time. Your systems (outdoor and indoor) should be isolated from each other by the heat exchanger. What you are now describing sounds like the radiant zone returns are returning to the OWB. I doubt that's true, but you are highly intelligent and capable of building the space shuttle from scratch, so I take you at your word. . As long as the system is isolated, pressurized from open, there's nothing wrong with running the HX as a side loop from the main indoor loop as long as it's piped correctly. It's a common practice, and a very good idea in order to allow HX service while retaining heat to the building.

Here's a thought: why don't you clean your exchanger, get walls back in your house, get all of the baseboard reinstalled, and then see what happens? In the alternative, keep changing ten things at a time, asking questions and not listening to the answers, and wondering while you're cold.

 

[Guswhit]

I would like to see Heatmor read this thread, then give input.

You'd have to be a nuclear physicist to understand what's going on here. Even if you did start to understand it, he changes 10 things, forgets to tell us 4 things and comes up with 6 more things that he thought he explained. I thought I was difficult to understand sometimes, but????????????????

 

[Timbercreek]

Well, you guys keep saying i didnt tell you stuff, while i did, and you know how he knew the aquastat was bad? It wont maintain the spread. Like ive been saying all the time. He said at 5 degrees that boiler should be off on all day. And the factory recomends a 15 degree range.
When i told him that boiler ran wide open all day when it was set on 5 degree spread, he knew it was busted.
That boiler cannot operate within a 5 degree window, and if it was i had to be pulling well over 100k btus to do it!!
New aquastat is on the way. 50 bux.

 

[Guswhit]

I can't help myself.


Here's a thought: why don't you clean your exchanger, get walls back in your house, get all of the baseboard reinstalled, and then see what happens? In the alternative, keep changing ten things at a time, asking questions and not listening to the answers, and wondering while you're cold.

You are damn funny! Think I may have to goo home from work now as I can't stop laughing!

 

[Timbercreek]

Problem is ive given you guys too much data and your losing track of whats important.
Even better when you tell me i dont tell you things, then i put it in the very next post, and you still cry lack of data.


Besides the aquastat, im leaving it alone, and if i have to i will put a brand new massive exchanger on it next summer.
Dont really think its the problem, my buddy is heating his log cabin on a dam 10 plate the size of a tuna can just fine.

 

[Timbercreek]

And oxford, i was holding the baseboard removed as my ace in the hole to tweak you out.
I still had a constant, the inlaw apartment is fully insulated and its zone hasnt been touched. That side of house was cold too.

It was water temperature. Love how 3 people pop in here, say you cant heat a house on 120f water plain and simple.
And you guys are still on my ass. At least i tried something. Didnt just sit here whining on my keyboard.

Good day.

 

[lefturnfreek]

Your right the plate isn't the issue, only getting 160 off of 190 water is ....

KISS principle.

Go back to the boiler and figure that out and then you hook up everything else after.

 

[NSMaple1]

Good luck with the new aquastat.

 

[Timbercreek]

Hoping it fixes my issue.
Mike at heatmor said the aquastat setting and the front thermostat should be fairly close.
Said the stove should be running 165-180 by front gauge.

 

[Timbercreek]

Well, just put the new aquastat in, and found some interesing bits.
Aquastat bulb had no thermal contact paste.
Upon setting it, i played with temps to kick fan off based on temps, and with front gauge reading 155f, the aquastat was showing 148f!!
So ive ramped it to 180f with 15f differential and going to watch a few cycles.

 

[Timbercreek]

Ya baby!! First cycle, draft fan kicked off at around 182f on the front gauge!!!
Aquastat it is!!!!

 

[lefturnfreek]

So hows the water temp coming out of the boiler now?

 

[Timbercreek]

Ill get u good numbers today,
But i want to say the wimpy little clipons said 80c out 76 in?
(Note these are not very accurate gauges. Opening the rear door can cool these down)

 

[NSMaple1]

Ya baby!! First cycle, draft fan kicked off at around 182f on the front gauge!!!
Aquastat it is!!!!

I didn't go back & read everything again, but did go way back to the first page for curiosity.

Post 1 said it was cycling up to 185, and post 5 said it was doing 170-185. With the 'old' aquastat. So I'm not seeing the difference?

 

[Timbercreek]

It wasnt consistent.
And i have no idea where i got 185 from, the boiler might have got that hot once in its life from kiln dried lumber with old aquastat.

Guess at that point i was more focused on the pump then the temps.

 

[Timbercreek]

Just like i told you i had a soft boil, and i didnt, thermal expansion just pushed some water out of the tank because the bladder was full and there was no where for it to go.
I didnt realize the difference, but mike at heatmor did.

And the temps, ya it makes me look like a idiot, but on the first post, i was going off memory and what i had seen, regardless of how long ago. Then i started really watching it and taking precise measurements. And reading all gauges at once. Not here or there in passing as i load wood.
Once mike told me it was aquastat and i didnt boil it, i played with it while waiting for new one.
Best i could get boiler to run was 160-178f and that had the junk stat cranked to 195f with a 10 degree spread.

 

[Timbercreek]

Boiler gauge says 165,6 ir says 167
Owb out 167.4 owb in 150,149.6

Oil furnace lines showing 160f
Cant get good ir numbers off the heat x lines, even with paint

 

[Oxford]

Boiler gauge says 165,6 ir says 167
Owb out 167.4 owb in 150,149.6

Oil furnace lines showing 160f
Cant get good ir numbers off the heat x lines, even with paint

Again, magical forces at work here. Your outdoor return can't be 10 degrees cooler than the indoor loop, unless your oil boiler is firing. I don't know what you do for a living, but I hope it doesn't require attention to detail.