HF Chain Grinder Thread

[Philbert]

Side-to-side variation can be an issue with both cutters and depth gauges on most grinders. I never assume, even with my Oregon grinders. Due to the smaller diameter of the grinding wheels on these grinders, I assume that even the small, horizontal spacing between R and L cutters and depth gauges could be a significant difference in where they hit the curve of the wheel.

I always grind one side, then a single cutter on the other, and hold the cutters up back-to-back to compare. I suppose you could measure, but this is faster and easier for me.

Philbert

 

[GrassGuerilla]

OK, maybe this will bring in a little more respect, interest, and consideration?

Philbert

View attachment 386694

Well played sir. And great thread.

 

[Philbert]

HF Grinder Manuals

I have seen other brands of inexpensive chain grinders that use smaller diameter arbor holes in their grinding wheels. Looked up some HF manuals to find out, so I might as well link them for others. These are for the 'Bicycle Hand Brake' (68221) and the 'Lever Twist' (93213) models.

Philbert

 

[ncpete]

Thanks Philbert for starting this thread. it gives some legitimacy to an HF tool I had vaguely wanted to try. I trust most of them (I use plenty of their cast iron in my wood shop), but I had been on the fence on this one. I can do a fairly decent hand file, but I have one chain in particular that I rocked pretty hard. This looks like just the fix, and somewhere around here I have one of their 20% off coupons, too.

 

[Philbert]

Thanks Philbert for starting this thread. it gives some legitimacy to an HF tool I had vaguely wanted to try. .

Pete, just to be clear, I wanted to start a discussion on these, and maybe have some fun with them. I am not vouching for them or promoting them. Have not even used mine yet. If you look through some of the threads, some people think that they are total junk. If you choose to buy one, please do so with open eyes, and keep your receipt! And if you use one, please share your comments, positive or negative, here!

Philbert

 

[ncpete]

sure, I understand that this is not an endorsement, and I am generally skeptical of any of HF's powered machinery, with these exceptions - they make a lathe that cannot be beat for the price, and their large dust collector was able to effectively clear two moderate dust producers in my shop at the same time - my table saw and 18" sander. It could only support 1 machine at a time if running the 20" planer or 8 jointer, and I shouldn't have expected more from the 1.5 hp dust collector anyways. The hand tools may not be the finest, but I have a full complement of their chisels, and my 'go-to' rabbit planer happens to be an HF piece - which sadly is no longer available. I also have several of their smaller nailers - not quite the finish of some of my more expensive tools, but the wood doesn't really know if it is getting fastened by a $180 pin nailer, or my $30 gun from HF. but, again, it is the smaller machinery I am most skeptical of, and I see enough people reasonably satisfied that the machine is definitely work the $28 mine will be after discounts applied. - also, it's easier to sneak that into the budget this close to Christmas.

 

[zogger]

Never used a grinder....the following may be stupider than normal for me

The main selling point of these appears to be price, 30 bucks, next step up is 100 bucks, OK

The main gripe I see here is inconsistency left and right, and hoop jumping to do depth gauges

Back to the main selling point, they are *cheap*.

Conclusion, buy three, you are still under 100$, have one set up for right hand cutters, one for left, one for depth gauges. Now, tighten them badboys up better so they ain't got that wiggle to them.

As to wheel sizes/brands/etc...I still can't wrap me pea brane around 3/16 wheels being suitable for different chains anyway, when we are supposed to use different size hand files, and this one uses 1/8th???..err......so..pass

 

[LegDeLimber]

Don't have one, But have pawed over the returned and opened units in the store.
Seems to me if you keep in mind all of the things you folks have listed about them
and just keep a light hand on it, a bit like using a bar mount filing jig.

Keep a light touch and try to keep it consistent and I think you'll find out why
a few people are getting better results than other may be.

As for Philberts skinny wheels? Heck stack about 4 of 'em and dress true and
then call the gaps between them cooling features.

For the main pivot? IF a person is truly on the verge of tossing one in the trash,
Then first pull the pin out and give it a thorough wipe over with some silicon spray.
Now put it back together then grab a tube of crazy glue and act like you're oiling the pin with it.
(might need to drill a hole in the frame to get the glue in )
check back in a day or so when the glue dries and if you got a the pin lube well,
then the glue should have filled the slop in the pivot.

But the whole trick is getting the pin slick so that the glue doesn't just lock things down.
Somebody send me that one you have sitting over on that shelf, beside the singing bass with leaking batteries, and I'll give it whirl.

 

[Philbert]

My concern about stacking the 1/8 inch wheels is that I am not sure that the arbor has room for more than one. Note the 3/16 SharpBoy grinder wheel, or the right angle disc grinder wheels, which may fit?

Philbert

(EDIT: *** I have since learned that other, more suitable wheels are available for these grinders***)

 

[LegDeLimber]

Dadgumit! the user pics seem to be stored in the same place as the all the vanity guff now.
I'm having to screw around with page source or page info, for most of the photos now.
can't seem to find all of the pics, to compare things.

IF you do try the stacked wheels, just make sure they're ALL completely on the arbor shank
and NOT sitting half off of a shoulder or on top of ANY threads.
Then just shift or spin the individual wheels in opposite directions to feel for any waviness
and roll out the flecks of grit that will give a false "torque" when you tighten the nut.
You also should feel for a smallest or thinnest stacking index.
Slowly hand tighten the nut and wiggle them back and forth a bit and feel the loosest spot
and tighten a bit more and repeat till you think you have them nested in their best grouping
and snug the nut proper.
Absolutely! first power it up and stand back a moment. shut down and re-check the nut.
Of course you'll need to check it often when doing chains.

But you know what?? Probably just creating a headache and if the wheels shift and spin
then grab.
You could have one shatter on you.
ah well, at least it entertained me a couple of mins to type it out.

 

[Big_Wood]

i had my grandfather pick me up one of these HF grinders a few years ago while he was down south. used it once and put it back in the box. pulled it out nearly a year later with the same result. i think i paid $34 on sale and sold it for $60 to some hack here. i mean the grinder is what it is and it certainly sharpens a chain better then someone who doesn't know how to sharpen a chain LOL. i got a 511ax now but searching for a square. i honestly to this day have not found a way of sharpening round cutters that is as good as myself doing it free hand with no guide. i've been doing it for years though. i almost bought a silvey SDM-4 2 months ago and the only thing that stopped me was the grinder was $1500 (talked the guy down to $1000) but all i had was $1000. i value eating right more then a square grinder so that where it ended up. my grandpa has a pro sharp silvey that he won't get rid of but i think it is mine in his will LOL.

 

[fearofpavement]

Philbert posted the breakdown for two different HF grinders. One with the brake handle and one without. I have owned both.
They both have slop in them. This can be used advantageously to take a wee bit more off a tooth that's a little shorter than the others rather than making ALL the teeth shorter.
The problem with the one that has the brake handle is that because pressure is required to be applied to the lever to clamp the vice, it is difficult to control the "slop" in the unit. With the version that just has the tab to grip and lower the grinder, light pressure can be used and I found this unit works much better. (at least for me)
I think that if the brake handle clamp lever was removed from the motor and put down lower somewhere onto the table where it could be used by the left hand, then the right hand could smoothly lower the wheel into the chain. This would produce better results.
Long story short, if the tab type grinder was available, I would recommend it to a casual user. The brake handle unit I wouldn't recommend without modifications because I feel it gives disappointing results.
If you know how to sharpen a chain well with a file, you will get better results from these cheap grinders because they are essentially doing the same thing, just removing material from the chain with the wheel instead of the file. I don't think a chain grinder is a file replacement but augments sharpening.
As stated previously, if you have a few very dull chains around that are too intimidating to file, the HF grinder can be an inexpensive and effective solution.
I have one HF grinder in the shop I do small chains with, an Oregon 511AX I do the 3/8 chains with and an Oregon clone set up just for rakers. If I found another grinder of higher quality I would replace the HF version but it works adequately for my limited needs.
If you are a full time tree service, don't buy the HF. If you are a firewood cutter, it may be a suitable option and I would certainly recommend it over paying someone else to sharpen your chains.
Oh, don't stack wheels, that will not give good results in my opinion.

 

[c5rulz]

i had my grandfather pick me up one of these HF grinders a few years ago while he was down south. used it once and put it back in the box. pulled it out nearly a year later with the same result. i think i paid $34 on sale and sold it for $60 to some hack here.

You are my hero!

 

[o8f150]

my neighbor has a HF one,,, the pivots are real loose and sloppy compared to mine,,,,, I have the sharp boy from baileys,,, I don't think they even carry it any more,,, I like mine,, it does exactly what I need it to do,, the pivots are tight even though just about everything is plastic,,,

 

[67L36Driver]

Yes, the pivot deal. Must be some kind of hit and miss. The pivots seem tight enuff on mine. No worries there. Mostly the flexable plastic on it. I use that to my advantage to 'kiss' the odd cutter shorter than the rest.

 

[7sleeper]

I have a two variants of this type of machine. First the full plastic model and second the lower aluminum top plastic version. Since I cut in three different locations in Austria, each a few hours drive apart, I keep the full plastic verions at my seldom cutting areas and the half/half version at my home. I have used each 20+ times, so I am so free as to say they have long paid for themselves! I only have and use Stihl semichisel chain, irrespective of chainsaw brand. I use Efco/Oleo Mac, Hitachi/Tanaka, Makita/Dolmar, Solo & Stihl chainsaws. The largest size I use is the stihl contra, but not very often because I don't often have the wood to warrent its use.

What I always find amusing is the critisism of these units.

1. Unprecise

If we have a look for whom these units are made => homeowner/firewoods hacks, I wonder what this unprecise always compares too?

Unprecise to a few hundred dollar machine? Definately!

Unprecise to a homeowner/firewooder handfiling? Definately not! Irrespective of file guide, average fillings are never going to be as precise as these el cheapos, if you follow up on the techniques on using this tool as described in above posts or as I described it above on how I set it up.
And instead of using the monkey part off your brain and clinging onto the handle like an ape just use one or two fingers at first. Twist-/Tilt-/Canting is about impossible. That is one of the major flaws I see in the models with a bycicle brake set up.

2. Uneven

Often I hear you cannot switch easily from one side to another. Well I set up each side alwas new. I prefer, as also described by some above, the slight "scratching" touch when setting up with turned off engine. If I see that it isn't sufficient on a severly rocked chain I can easily adjust after the first pass and do a second.

If you are in such a hurry that you don't have time to readjust, well then this tool is definately not for you. For me it is a relaxing thing to do in the evening. But then again I have at least two spare chains per saw.


3. Bad quality grinding wheel

Of couse you absolutly need a resinoid wheel to even grind... Come on guys be serious. Millions of knives, chisels, etc have been sharpened with exactly the same composition. If you have problems with the grinding wheel, well sorry guys, but it is definately not the grinding wheels fault!
If you have burning problems then your technique is crap! If your setup is crap and you use this tool like an angle grinder to plow out the new contour, well nothing in the world is going to save your chain. If I take off more than usual I use a "bouncing" type technique and slowly but surely, after at least four to five "bounces" reach the bottom.

If your wheel is full of crap then clean your chain first. I use the compressor to quickly blow the dirt off.
You can probably get at least a fifty to hundred grindings out of one wheel, depending on chain length. For me I can't ask for more.


4. Generall bad quality

Well this is actually the same topic as we see a bunch of hobby firewooders running around in the forest and proclaiming that if you don't have the newest lightest fastest ported pro saw you can never cut a piece of wood because they saw the comparison vid on youtube....

No wonder these chainsaw companies are headed by a bunch of idiots who have no idea why they are actually producnig three categories of chainsaws (Home/Hobby, Farmer/SemiPro and Pro).
It would be really interesting to see the comparison of a pro using some homeowner class type saw (f.e. Stihl 251) cut trees in comparison to a homeowner comming straight from the stihl shop with the newest outfit and a pro saw(f.e. Stihl 261). The result after half an hour will already be quite clear.

There was a nice quote on another forum that I used to frequent, that most guys recomend after two cords of wood a tree harvestor with a firewood processor .....


5. No sharp results

Again it obviously depends on your expectations. If sharp for you means surgically sharp, then I doubt that any grinder is really going to make you happy. Because that would imply the need to further polish the cutter.
For me the result is having my firewood cut, not going to any gtg and proving that my chain is faster. I simply don't have time for this childs play.
I have made a comparison vid where I showed that this simple grinder has similar cutting speed results to brand new store bought stihl chain. If someone needs more, then get a more expensive grinder.


6. Exclusive method

For me the grinder is not the exclusive method to sharpen a chain. It is for me more part of the whole setup. The same reason why I don't run around and limb with the contra. I prefer the ~40cc class for this work.
Would it be sufficient? Definately. Most homeowners would be more than happy with the sharpness this method provides.
For me most grinds get a follow up after the first use with the file again. Simply because I find it cuts slightly better. Although I admit, everyone who asks me for a sharpening only gets a grind. Never do handfilling for other peoples chains.

7

 

[c5rulz]

7 sleeper,

Excellent condensation.

You are almost too practical.

 

[7sleeper]

7 sleeper,

Excellent condensation.

You are almost too practical.

Reality should not be ignored inspite of some romantic beliefs. Thak you for your compliment!

Just an update, a tree company is just removing some trees (spruce) on the neighbor property. They came over and asked me if I want the trunk wood. Funny thing is they removed a small ash in the summer and remembered me. I have no problem what so ever with soft wood. It burns just as well.
Well I wanted to give the guy a tip and he declined, so I offered him to file his chains. He said only the small 231 has a dull chain because one of his guys had touched the dirt with it, anyhow he was real happy that I quickly touched it up for him on the el cheapo grinder. Actually he was quite impressed how well it cut. The other two saws he had with him where a 192 and a 066. Not quite the saws he wanted to continue cutting the smaller trees with.

7

 

[Philbert]

Thank you for your passionate input 7sleeper! It was your advocacy of these grinders that made me even give them a second look!

Philbert

 

[7sleeper]

But you still haven't used yours....



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