Hinge Forensics

[TheTreeSpyder]

If we can guess, figure from other's hinges; should be able to diagnose, remember and adjust our own in an ongoing, evolution of informed understanding and bettermeant. Having advantage to diagnose immediately after making decisive actions, would give more sure, deeper (reinforcemeant)answers to that quest. As in anything else we strive at, and suggested here by Mr. Dent.

Some mo'guesses...->

Read once that L.U.C.K. was an accronym for Luck Under Controlled Know-Ledge; still i respond humbley; jest always thought that was a good line! Try to take focus in it sometimes during planning though...... 'course the more focused during planning then the more the same reading forensics, lessons learned (or some kind of vicious cycle)...

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sumeptin'like dat!
:alien:

 

[ORclimber]

Riiiiiiip!!

Not my best work.

 

[ORclimber]

Here's the stump.

 

[murphy4trees]

Spidy and all,
I was able to get a feel for the work on that site, and it's clear to me that the feller had limitted knowledge and experience....
These trees were all pretty straight and had a wide open drop zone... There is no question in my mind that the big tulip was pushed over with that excavator... There is a clear bypass on the angled face cut, best seen in the last pic... This created a Dutchman which caused the hinge to sieze. The extra wide hinge was then caused by the huge force of that machine pushing from behind.... The operator cut through the side of the hinge because the bar was too short to cut straight through...
Some of the other hinges looked OK... he was lucky a few times I guess!!!

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Been thar, done that Or! Nice, stretched fibers, hardest workers on crew many days!

Guess i missed that soft kerf edge the Murph, thanx, will look for it more often; seen enough of my own in the past to know what they look like!

i figured that the bar was too short to reach on backcut without presetting one side of hinge, but that would have been my choice. Stumper is really right on about that long thin across the hinge, it works so many ways IMLHO.

Many trees can fall lucky on wide open construction sites especially aided by the shear force of earth moving equipment, the forces are there 'lessor' technique and need for such. Better mechanics makes it safer, and wider adaptation of use; especially without the available correction of heavy equipment to lock against the ground and push.

Most of the corrective hinging, illustrates to me the amount of force it takes to address direction adjustment, and a better, self adjusting system to natureally do it with, in a self tightening position (behind motion/pull).

i think a dutchman can make tree sieze when fall is moving to slow to take step up/launch off. With the slow movement and hinge pulling from behind, not enugh force to slap down and climb 'curb' in this case (bottom face cut too far?). Barberchair is more prone to happen at such siezing i beleive, dangerous time as pull and face compression fight each other escalating till one fails, i look at a barber chair as a split diecision..... But think it is more likely to happen if bottom cut is too far also....

This is all fascinating to me, but just ground school. i look at all the lil hinges in the air. If felling N with a NW lean is achievable with this mechanics in hinge, so is using it to steer and throw to the side of the downward pull of gravity. Once again the point of the tapered hinge goes in the general direction of the OffSide pull to pro-posed travel (that pull would be down as you moved limb across), kerf steps for mini dutchmans go on thin side of hinge (down) to pro-vide lift against down as in tandem wide end of hinge provides lifting pull. All the same sideways IMLHO! And presented on the ground to show the immense power, how to use it; and how well it works even at that immense scale. Also, a strategy that is more powerfull as the weight and leverage is pitted against itself, the more there is to challenge the hinge, the more the hinge pulls, making bigger/heavier easier on some tricks..IMLHO

:alien:

 

[John Ellison]

Good thread.
Watching the heavy eq. and chain saw work on some const. sites can scare you to death.
I guess its obvious but IMHO the size and type of tree has a lot to do with how well or if a dutchman will work. Shorter pine trees ( like in this area of the south) have to be one of the easiest and most forgiving. I have limited experience with hardwoods but for me they dont swing near as well. Some types such as west coast alder seem to be especially prone to barberchair. The taller trees 100 plus have the leverage to make the wild stuff happen. That siezing or stoping is to be avoided.
I like the fact that you guys are interested in what stumps look like.
From stumps you can see that a popular falling method in this area is the full face dutchman. Picture the treetop moving forward ten or fifteen feet,stoping, then a sec or two later dropping in the general direction of the face. In tall timber it might be instant b.chair but in shorter stuff if the faller isnt looking up, he dosent even realize the tree moved or that anything is wrong.
Hinge Forensics Cool name for a thread Spyder.

John

 

[murphy4trees]

Here's another ash I felled this week... I was surprised to be the lowest bid on this job, as I know at least one other company regularly underbids me by 15-30%.
There are 5 pics total, what do you think happenned?

 

[murphy4trees]

Another pic

 

[murphy4trees]

Here's a close up of the stump/hinge... tree obviously had plenty of decay... I suppose it would be easier to see if I had blown off the dust

 

[murphy4trees]

And the reverse angle

 

[murphy4trees]

and the side shot...
A lot happenned getting that log on the ground... plent of hints for the trained eye.... have fun. his pic also shows three distinct pieces that came out the notch..... more on that later

 

[murphy4trees]

Rocky,
I forgot to add the blue glove to that last pic... hard to tell based on that pic, how big that ash was... Stump cut was around 18-22"
I left it high and cut a 100*+ notch hoping to keep the hinge would hold after felling and keep the log off the ground... The homeowner had every inch of that backyard landscaped... hate to hurt the flowers....
Log rolled a little cause of the bend in the trunk... I wonder if there wasn't so much decay in the middle of the hinge, if it would have been strong enough to hold and resisit the roll...
Any other thoughts????

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

L.U.C.K.y Shot!

Nice lay even brushing other trees, steering and locking to one onR with hinge pulling that way so lil tree doesnt push big one off course, even though it started byleaning away from face? Using pull on R, even though that is where least amount of fiber is?

Lots of mess and rot, plotting hinging around that rot like a plunged face, shape helped shift on ground and dissipate shock some, looks like all that coulda got a lil wild in that narrow pass of fence with log hopping around.

Of course with a high leverage pull and slow backcut that force would be minimized, and direction to target more sure.

Purty dang good shootin' at every point!

 

[murphy4trees]

OK here's what happenned.....
Cut the notch fat and high as posted earlier....
1 man pulling on a slight front leaner.... I was aiming for the uprooted stump or just to it's right, using the little maple as a keeper to prevent rolling downhill into fence...
As tree began to move, it looked like it was heading a little left, on the high side of stump, so I quickly hit the gas and took out more wood on left side of hinge to steer her right.... That's why the left side hinge fibres look compressed, because I took out all the tension wood as the tree was falling.....
So the tree steers a little right, and hits the stump precisely as evidenced by the bark damage in the reverse angle pic... Then because of the bow the tree rolls right and bounces downhill into the little maple... The force of the roll was such that it easily tore the left side of hinge off... But the right side of hinge which was complete, held causing a large section to tear off up the trunk. It is possible that if I hadn't needed to reduce the left side hinge that would have held too, though its tough to say.
That was agood day... did some minor pruning.... elevating small Norway Maples growing in the woods (backyard) ... I know MM but these trees really should have been removed.....
Customer was pleased and actually used the word "fantastic" to describe the work.... I think that was a first...

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Follow up to "No Pro Hinges" pic. The crew(?) returned to some of the hazards they left, defused some, kinda left some.

One pic in particular shows the massive forces built up enough to splinter a spar from falling into a NoFace 'face'; which should mutely testify it's own warning about any binding in the face, let alone, not taking a FaceCut.

 

[Yellowdog]

I'd love some forensics on this stump. It was a fairly medium pecan tree right next to a house that was being demolilshed. Leaned away from house.

 

[MasterBlaster]

It was turned to one side a tad.

 

[SilverBlue]

Here’s a cut that should have been textbook, instead the birch headed immediately to the right and the top narrowly missed the neighbor’s deck, wonder why. Hotshot said it was the groundy's fault for not pulling on the rope hard enough.

 

[Yellowdog]

So, you should stop and really take a look at the notch before making the back cut? Don't assume anything, right? Also, how much higher should that back cut be? 1", 2"?

 

[Yellowdog]

Thanks rocky.