Homelite C-51, ignition, and bar selection. In the correct forum now.

[TheBerg]

Hello, just created my account.
Decided to come down from lurking in the woods to the warm and tidy campfire that is arboristsite.

I just recently purchased a nonrunning Homelite C-51 convertable drive for $10.

The two main problems with it are it has no spark, and the 20" windsor bar was bent into an 'S'. Ive read as many homelite c-51 forums on here as I could, and haven't come across these questions. If there is a forum or forums that address these please point me to them:

1. The piston and head look great. If the ignition system needs replacing is it worth buying an electronic ignition conversion kit? Has anyone had trouble with them? Are they reliable? I have yet to really trouble shoot the ignition system but if I did need to buy new parts I am undecided on whether to go original, or go with the computer chip.

2. I originally bought this saw to be a small limbing saw. However, when I learned more about the this 77cc monster I figured maybe I should take advantage of it's capabilities. Homelite says these saws can take a 30" bar. I've also read on this site that these saws have lots of torque but run low rpms. Does anyone use a 30" bar on theirs? Can it handle it with the proper chain? eBay seems to have a good stock of 30" bars and 25" bars for these saws. I already have a working stihl with a 20" bar.

3. Has anyone had luck straightening a bent guide bar?

I live in the Midwest on 5 acres with lots of trees and plan on volunteering on a local conservancy. We don't get huge diameter trees here but I'd rather be prepared for the unknown. That's why I'm considering the 30" bar.

Any professional advice is much appreciated! Thank you!

 

[frank_]

i find that 9 times out of 10 cleaning the points/contact breakers with fine emery will restore a spark

 

[2broke2ride]

I agree, cleaning and regapping the points will likely restore spark. People have mixed results with the electronic "chips" they have worked ok for me but I try to stay with the points whenever possible.
That saw will pull a 30" bar, just dont expect to do it quickly and your thumb will get a good workout running the manual oiler. No automatic oiling on these.
Here is a vid of my C71 for comparison. The C71 is 82cc so a bit bigger. This is a 24inch bar in red oak.

 

[TheBerg]

I asked some co-workers of mine to help pull off the flywheel. Once we got it off they started probing it with a multimeter. They seemed to think the points or coil was grounded out somewhere. I wont know for sure until I take a look at it.

Well everyone I asked about electronic ignition couldn't really give an answer. I was kinda leaning toward staying original. I guess you decided it 2broke2ride, if anything is bad I'll go with NOS parts.

Yeah, maybe the 25" bar is better suited for my thumb. Haha

 

[chainsawlady]

TheBerg
I have new Windsor Bars for the C-51 saw. Overall length of bar is 22 ". It is hard nose bar . Number on bar is 18-103. It has several holes on back and will fit several model saws. .063 is groove of bar. It is a Bright silver bar with orange printing. Says WINDSOR and multi-mount dura tip. Price is $40.00 plus shipping I have new condensers #55987 - $6.29. I don't have new points #68165.
[email protected]

 

[TheBerg]

TheBerg
I have new Windsor Bars for the C-51 saw. Overall length of bar is 22 ". It is hard nose bar . Number on bar is 18-103. It has several holes on back and will fit several model saws. .063 is groove of bar. It is a Bright silver bar with orange printing. Says WINDSOR and multi-mount dura tip. Price is $40.00 plus shipping I have new condensers #55987 - $6.29. I don't have new points #68165.
[email protected]

Oh wow that's very tempting. I sent you an email!

 

[buzz sawyer]

Ditto on the points. Filing is better because you want flat surfaces. I take them out and use a raker file. Sanding can create small ridges and valleys that can wear down more quickly. If you must sand, go to at least 400 grit and spray with some contact cleaner. I had two of these and would prolly not run a 30" bar. Oh yeah, they're LOUD.

 

[svk]

I’ve had a number of C-5’s which are very similar to yours.

I wouldn’t mess with electronic ignition conversion, especially on a saw I hadn’t ran previously. That points system is very simple and should be one of a couple components to replace.

You can run long bars on those but would need skip chain. If Joyce can hook you up with a new 22” bar that’s probably your best bet as long as you don’t need to cut huge wood.

Those saws are loud, heavy, don’t have antivibe, and are manual oiler. But don’t let that discourage you as it’s fun to run old iron (with ear protection).

 

[2broke2ride]

As an FYI a bar for an XL12/superXL can be made to fit these with some very minor mods. That is what is on mine.

 

[TheBerg]

As an FYI a bar for an XL12/superXL can be made to fit these with some very minor mods. That is what is on mine.

What minor mods do they require?

 

[2broke2ride]

What minor mods do they require?

Just remove the adjuster pin from the adjuster screw in the clutch cover and flip it upside down and then grind the slot in the outer bar plate (if it's even there) to match.

 

[TheBerg]

Alright, so, I cleaned the points and got a spark.... good-for-nothin elec-chickens steering me the wrong way!

Put some gas in it and got it to idle for about 10 seconds, it died after pulling the throttle. Tried to start it again, but it would not. While I was trying I saw grayish black gas come out the muffler.

I bought a carb rebuild kit the carb is a HL-141C. I soaked the carb in cleaner for 3 days, blew out all the holes, scraped off the gaskets and installed the new kit. While the carb was soaking I replaced the fuel lines and cleaned out the gas tank. I reused the gas line filter.

While fighting the over running bearing starter I got the saw to start and idle but yet again, it would die when I use the trigger.

Any suggestions?

 

[2broke2ride]

Did you properly set the metering lever height? (It should be level with the metering chamber floor) did you pressure test the carb? The plastic fuel inlet on those older tillotsons is known to warp and leak.
What are you H and L needles set at? I usually start at 1 turn and adjust from there. Try backing the H out a half turn.

 

[TheBerg]

The metering lever is flush with the floor.
I did not pressure test the carb how do I go about doing that?
The fuel inlet is metal on mine, everything seemed to fit well.

The rebuild kit came with some old instructions, if I remember it instructed 1 turn in on the L needle and 3/4 turn in on the H needle. When I got the saw, before taking it apart the needles were 1-1/4 turn for the L and 7/8 turn for the H. I tried both the original settings and the ones from the instructions after rebuilding the carb. The 1 turn for L made it idle best, but neither kept the saw from dying.

While I was trying to start it most recently, head of one of the 6 screws holding everything together broke off, not sure if that has anything to do with anything.

 

[TheBerg]

Just for convenience I used some 50:1 fuel with a few squirts of 5w20 oil in it to try bring up the oil ratio. I plan on using 32:1. Should be using 32:1 while I trouble shoot?

 

[2broke2ride]

Mix ratio wont matter, I run 40:1 in everything. You just have to tune to the ratio.
It sounds like it is starving for fuel. If it is bogging when you open the throttle, it is likely the L is set to low, adjust the L out until the bog goes away. Once it accelerates crisply and rapidly you can move to the H.

To pressure test the carb, you need a way to put about 5 psi in the fuel inlet and hold it. It should hold or creep down very very slow. If it leaks off you need to find and correct the source of the leak.

 

[TheBerg]

I just now took it all apart again, checked to make sure I assembled it correctly and sanded down all the flat sides of the carb.
All of them were indeed warped. I put it all back together.

Before, the fuel line would always have a bubble of air. The carb seems to pull more the fuel now, enough to keep the line full of gas. Yet it still will not go from idle to WOT.

It will start with either the choke on ,or after a few pulls with the choke on, then pushed halfway in. Almost like it needs to fill the carb with fuel.

I am able to get it to start at WOT. When I do it will rev up and down with the trigger but if it idles down it will die. If I keep it at WOT or close to it. It will die after a while.. like it emptied the carb.

Is it not pulling fuel? It looks like it is pulling fuel when the choke is on but not when it is running.

 

[2broke2ride]

Did you use any sealer on the carb flange gasket that could have partially plugged the impulse port? That is the only reason I can think that it would be more apt to draw fuel on choke.

 

[TheBerg]

Nope, I put it together dry. Although I could have missed a hole when I was blowing things out. In a few days I'll get a new screw to replace the one that broke and blow everything out again and see if that will have any affect.

 

[buzz sawyer]

When you assembled the carb, did you put the gasket between the diaphragm and carb body? See schematic below.