How About This Thin/Clean Job?

Kneejerk Bombas · Apr 16, 2004

Tipping, topping, crown reduction are all bad for the tree, unless they are needed for a specific reason, like it was planted under a power line.
The difference between tipping (shearing) and topping is simply dose. One might argue proper tipping has angled cuts at nodes, but the tree doesn't much know or care about that, it responds in the same way.
The arguement that a tree needs to be topped because it's too tall, is invalid. When a branch moves excessively in the wind, hormones will change the way it grows and it will reenforce itself much the way horizontal branchs, or trees exposed to high winds do.
To just look at a tree in a picture and say it needs the tips cut back, without any reason, is wrong. What objectve will it accomplish? It will encourage new rapid growth at the cut points and also more growth below. Why would you want that? It would undermine the thinning and tipping you just did.
When we cut live limbs we need to understand what this does to the tree. Study old tree work, see what reactions the tree has to these cuts. Remember that every cut on top of a tree has an equal reaction to the roots below.
Do a google search on topping and look at before and after pictures of topped trees next to untopped trees. In a short time the topped tree is taller than the untopped tree. Think what happened to the tree during this short cycle. It's full of decay, the roots are compromised, it's starch reserves are gone, it looks unnatural, it's unsafe, and the owner needs to hire somebody to go up and thin it out. Are you suggesting that we should also tip it back???? To me that constitutes and smaller dose of retopping.

Peter Pan · Apr 16, 2004

I would have to disagree mith you Mike.

The angle cuts are important for drainadge. For the wound its self and external moistures.

The tree will adapt, but leveradge is leveradge, I've seen to many nice trees toppled over which would not have happened if a few feet was taken off the top on large pines(for instance).

Guy Meilleur · Apr 16, 2004

Reduction Redux #9

Originally posted by Mike Maas
Tipping, topping, crown reduction are all bad for the tree, unless they are needed for a specific reason
Yes all cuts are bad for the tree unless there's a greater good gained, like a safer structure and a longer useful life.
One might argue proper tipping has angled cuts at nodes, but the tree doesn't much know or care about that, it responds in the same way.
False. Response to nodal and internodal cuts always different.
When a branch moves excessively in the wind, hormones will change the way it grows and it will reenforce itself
True, and it's good to plan on this, but sometimes this reinforcement will not occur in time before branch breaks. :Eye: closely for incipient cracks and other signs of strain.
It will encourage new rapid growth at the cut points and also more growth below. Why would you want that?
More growth below means less leverage, thicker taper and reduced chance of breakage.
It would undermine the thinning and tipping you just did.
No, it regrows the crown in a more stable place. That was the goal.
In a short time the topped tree is taller than the untopped tree. Are you suggesting that we should also tip it back???? To me that constitutes and smaller dose of retopping.

Leaves are important food factories, so they are to be conserved, especially for the first few seasons after crown loss. But the maples Mench did were topped long ago, those ends are (look) heavy, so reducing the ones that are a high risk for breaking may be the right thing to do.

Wulkie never wore me out on this one, MM, and you won't either.

Climbers need to travel light, and carry no pro- or anti-pruning dogma. Every branch is unique. No cut without a good reason.

PS "Tipping" is what you do to a good waitress, reduction cuts are what you do to a tree. Let's use the industry terms; ANSI took a lot of work and will help us all understand each other.

Toddppm · Apr 16, 2004

I don't see the need on that particular tree, doesn't look heavy to me. I would agree occasionaly long lateral limbs and maybe once in a great while some top branches may need to be reduced by cutting back to a lateral, sorta like drop crotching but not just cutting the tips of the branches to lighten them. We did a sycamore last fall that had been topped before and to lighten the overgrown heavy branches we cut 4 or 5 of them back to laterals that could take over as the leaders.
Do you have any pics of trees that you've reduced Guy?

Is that a silver maple?

Dadatwins · Apr 16, 2004

Originally posted by Mike Maas
Tipping, topping, crown reduction are all bad for the tree, unless they are needed for a specific reason, like it was planted under a power line.

I understand these to be three completely different things as I was taught but understand that what I call tipping would fall under reduction cuts now. When I refer to tipping/ reduction cuts I refer to making angle cuts to lower growth on certain species ie: silver maple, bradford pear by cutting the end tips to reduce weight and stringy branch formation. It is my belief that certain species like these grow length faster than growing taper and strength to support that weight and therefore should be cut back/ reduced as needed to prevent wind ,ice damage to tree. I am refering to trees in a urban environment that do not have the protection of forest around them. I do think that this is something that should be done depending on site and species of tree.