How big of a top do you dare rope out on it's own spar?

[mpapuga]

These guys here wake up every day to a new world... [/B][/QUOTE]

I think every climber can appreciate that comment, I was a young groundman facing a new world every day at one time. But people gave me the opportuninity to learn from those mistakes back in 1979. It's incredible how climbing has progressed.

 

[tjk]

I have found that using a block and a rope brake have limited this mistake by ground workers alot, as the friction is always the same. It is much easier for the groundman to learn.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

And if load runs, line doesn't smoke; though the lack of high friction does raise the support loads. So that stands agianst us, but the low heat factor might help..

So if they can run the load to the ground, and just keep the load from accelerating (invoking that multiplier of the present force of weight), and 'snub' the rest of the force into the ground (about the weight of the top?), no heat damage to line, very limited load on support/ shaking of lil'wood tick clinging to side of what's left standing with saw.

Also, a line thrown high in top to leverage stronger hinge; allowing top to slowly fold over, sometimes not reaching tear off/ free falling till line catches load stage until 4:30 or so (lighter ones just laying over on pulley and need cut free); and falling from 4:30 till caught from almost stopped, not a dead run, lowers input force immensely. Super- pretighten support/catch line to further reduce fall till caught distance/loading, then; run that reduced force load to the ground; or whatever. But bending wide mouth hinge over slowly, higne tearing off later, to be caught on a pretightened line, with all slack out of lacings hitching the load; sure makes a good first step. By starting out with as slow a speed, dropped from as low a level, into the most support (line pretightened against expected loading); as can be screeeched, to be input into the traveling phase (then landing?), to scrutinize minimizing what stands against ye, maximizing what stands fer' ya, in a checklist, procedural format of crafting the best ya can work the puzzle this time!


Orrrrrr something like that!
:alien:

 

[ORclimber]

Let's see some pictures, you big top floppers

Here's my puny contribution

 

[MasterBlaster]

THATS a big top?

I usually one-hand those puny tops!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

You could dump onto a porty instead of a block, just use a big sling to attatch.

The best way to know how much to take is to learn from your experiance. Learn how to judge wood weights and breaking strengths. It's not so much the weight of the peice, but the forces applied. As we know the snubbed off load will jerk you more then the one that runs (someone said that heh?)

Using a winch with an experianced ropeman, I will take several 1000# on some trees

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think that Porty trick would decrease support load if it was placed overhead; placed underneath (catching top on own spar); i would think that the wraps would be pinched off against the tree and top couldn't lower (without gracious lean in spar)?

When i used snubbed earlier, i was refering to running the load straight into the ground, the line keeping top's fall from accelerating, not allowing building to high forces with that multiplier of speed; then the force (weight of top +) still pulling on line is handled by the ground absorbing it, not the line, breaking branches in the top buffering that. So, i kinda always imagined, someone smashing a cigarrette into the ground with thumb to take that force and "put it out", and used the ground likewise with the rest of force in load, snubbing it into the ground. Minimal force on line that powers 2/1 on most leveraged point of what's left of tree, force 'snubbed' out into the ground safely.

i think a rubber snubber as discussed at TB, like for a boat, industrial applications etc. (perhaps like a compression disk inside of Porty tube), that had charachteristics to absorb dynamic shocks in a given range could be used to take the 'spike' out of the picture-chart graphing of sudden force, making shock to everything less by 'clipping' the sudden forces off the top of the laoding graph, specifically at 2/1 loading point, leave lines safer; for more cycle of uses left in strength etc.; as well as not testing every support, line, knot, sling, groundman, climber etc. quite as much that very day.


Soooooo Don't Snubb me BIG GUY:Monkey:, even though i might be the jerk that runs towards your wench!

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn

Using a winch with an experianced ropeman, I will take several 1000# on some trees

You'll drop a several thousnd pound top off a spar on to a line?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

If you mean a block when you say false crotch, that is what many of us do. A carbiner on a sling is not designed for that, neither are rescue pullies. An 8 is better then a tree wrap, but nothing like a porty, too much wear on the rope.

Mike, if taking into concideration all the branching to get total volume, you assume your average diameter is 20 inches then ((3.142*10) /12)*55 is around 120# per liner foot. so every 10ft of top is 1200#.

I don't do it every day. It does degrade the rope, but if you can get the job done faster, writing the rope off may pay off in the end on real big jobs. What's a $150 rope if you knock several off a 4 man crew?

 

[monkeypuzzle]

If you look at Rip's? AM ad in TCI magizine he uses some sort of block I've never seen before. It has another link??????

What kind are they?

 

[tjk]

In Rip's photo he has a dynamometer rigged to the block to measure the force. If I remember right he uses a Hobbs block.