HOW do they make any $$$

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murphy4trees

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It was a wet day here, not pouring, but rained all night, and on and off all day, from drizzle to light rain, so I ran errands. Left my neighborhood at around 9:15... by that time this kinda new name in the tree biz around here had a crane and a bucket truck set up in a neighbor's front yard, next to a pretty big silver maple, (maybe 44-48" DBH... Thing was not that tall though) plywood everywhere and cribbing set up for the crane... So I figure they are all set up and the tree will be down by the time I get back for a 10:30 appointment at my house. Now they have a chip truck and chipper in the street, skid steer with grapple bucket, large 16'+ bed dump truck to haul the wood, and the crane and bucket truck, and 7 men on the job.

So I roll the window down and jokingly yell out, "what are you fooling around with all that equipment and plywood for: just notch it and drop her across the street".. At least one groundie laughed... I was in a hurry for my appointment so I didn't look up on my way back at 10:40. But when I left again at 2:30 pm, they had only taken out 2 of the four main leads out and none of the really big wood. Then at 4:35 pm, I drive by again and see they are working on the butt log, taking it in two cuts, with one man on the saw, cutting through 4' wood at about 6' high, and then come home again at 7:30 and they have the big wood in the back of the crane and are jockying plywood to get the crane out of the yard. I stopped and talked to one of the groundies at 4:45, who told me they had 7 men on the job.

Now if it was me, I'd have taken off a few side limbs, and dropped that thing across the street after pulling the neighbor's mailbox. Tree would have been on the ground by 9-9:30 AM.. and chipped up by 11 am or 12 noon, depending on how many loads of chips it was. And the log loader would have picked all that wood up for $300 in about 30 minutes. The tree would have been fine, no wires, and fairly wide LZ in the front yard and street. It would have been an early day.

And even if it had to be climbed and roped, Big John or Pat would have had that entire tree roped down, including the wood,and ready to drop the stick before noon. Tree would have been ready for the log loader no later than 1-2 pm, with 1 climber and 3 ground men and the 1590 chipper with winch.

Now maybe the wet weather slowed them down a bit... But how can you make payments on all that equipment, pay 7 men a 12 hour day, haul and dump all the wood and chips, and still make any money on what was probably a $2500 tree? There are hungry lowballers around here that might have done a tree like that for $1800-2000. Makes me wonder if these kind of companies aren't washing drug money through a tree business. That is not a joke, I really wonder that!.

I might be able to get a picture of the stump later this week.
 
Like you said, 7 men to 7:30 at night and tons of equip, how do they make a living?

On the other hand, one can, and I have, made a decent living doing millions of jobs like that with only 2 men and a lot of equipment in one less than 8 hour day including disposing of the refuse. No mistakes, everything ready from the start and a rehearsed flawless choreography and highly skilled participants.

One is drudgery, the other is fun and exciting and profitable.

They are still gonna always be out there, just with different faces.
 
Murph, he's obviously a newb with the crane and probably scared to death that he is going to tear something up. He is probably doing the job just to cover his labor and make a payment on the crane. All good for you, if he is working like that he is going to eat that crane in this economic environment.
 
well could of been a new crane or op. it takes a little while to get familiar with the boom functions. it also could of been a new guy in the tree. again takes time to get fast with making crane cuts as well. real scary at first actually. when both are experienced it can make a job go real fast. just because they have the equipment doesnt make them efficient. the combo of experience and the right equipment is the combo you strive for.

as for making money with fancy equipment. i just got done with my accountant and she is telling me I have expensed all my writeoffs for 09' and I have well over a million tied up in equipment. sometimes you buy because cause it saves you come april 15th. Didn't you just get done writing a post of how you were always the cheapest guy around on a bid? Just think of you were the highest guy around and hustled just as hard? You'd have the fancy equipment too.

as for dropping a tree across the street or on a lawn, especially taking up the the neighbors mailbox. if I can sell a job for for zero lawn impact and get another grand or more for it I will bring in the crane. How do you know what they got for the job? It was raining, taking it slow in the rain is a good thing. If they made $3k today they are ahead. I sent everyone home this am because it was too wet. Looks like tomorrow will be the same way.
 
By chance this wasn't Rick's Tree Service from the philly area was it? I know they are selling their crane to get another. Could it be their current crane not functioning properly or the new one learning it?
 
Not me.. I AM usuallly the highest

Even though I run a fairly low overhead operation, I like to bid high..
I just bid a $1,450 job that the homeowner told me he had a price of 700 on.. He wasn't lying either. That was a notch and drop willow in the backyard, but pretty big wood, maybe 30-34".

I just charged $795 to prune a storm damaged pine tree, near some primaries. A lot of downed debris and a good 250' to the driveway. Climber was done pruning every single branch tip left on that tree in under two hours. NO POLE SAW EITHER!!!

Then I just bid 1,795 on a backyard sycamore. Tall but not that big in the wood. Lady told me she had one price of 1,800 and three other prices between 975-1,000... I'll lower my prices to match competitive bids in most cases, but just walked away from both those jobs... I told her $1,800 was what the tree was really worth (pre-recession) and the three prices she got were all from guys that were desperate for work. I also suggested she keep the tree and told her that even though it had a lean, it was a solid tree, no way was it going down any time soon.

I often get customers telling me I AM the highest. And that leaves me an opening to tell them why my work is superior and ask how much the other bids were for. The I'll make the call about wether I want to reduce the bid to make it a little more comfortable for them.
 
This is what I was commenting on. If you werent the lowballer back then....

I used to use my own strength and hard work to power through jobs while charging next to nothing for the work... Worked so hard with so little to show for it... Working with old beat up trucks and chippers. There were other local companies that would just walk away from estimates without even giving a price if they found out I was bidding on it too.

THAT SUCKED!!!

After i got Lyme in 98, I just couldn't work that hard anymore.. so I raised my prices, did more advertising and it all went so much better. Now I run a 14' chip truck with a 2007 Brush bandit 1590 (with winch) and a 2003 Rayco super RG 50 grinder... bought an 97 GMC altec LR IV, last Feb as well... At only 55' it doesn;t get out that much though.. All is paid for...
 
I sent everyone home this am because it was too wet. Looks like tomorrow will be the same way.

I used to be based in NJ and have fam in NJ. You usually get the weather we get the next day. It was supposed to rain here all day. Turned out to be just a sprinkle in the am.

Equipment is everything but like said, you have to build up to using it.

You get the pick up, add a chipper, add a dump, add a picker, get a bigger truck and chipper, add a used truck crane, need a wood truck, mini skids, dump trailers, stumpers, buy it all. If you can make good purchases you are not in the rat race anymore. And with time comes you become the old sage (in their minds) for just surviving it all. You accumulate clients the low ballers can't touch.
 
What economic environment? This economy is not in as bad of shape as everyone says it is. So a few auto workers ( I used to be one) lose their jobs and real estate goes down, a few other companies who were operating on borrowed money go down and all of a sudden the economy is gonna colapse. Nonesense!
 
What economic environment? This economy is not in as bad of shape as everyone says it is. So a few auto workers ( I used to be one) lose their jobs and real estate goes down, a few other companies who were operating on borrowed money go down and all of a sudden the economy is gonna colapse. Nonesense!

I just don't see it either. If I had to feed 5 crews I might.
 
Man, I have got to say that I am so thankful that I didn't get neck deep in debt with equipment last year. I was making upwards of 20K a week this time last year. Granted I was contracting out a lot of work and was not taking in nearly that amount but on paper it looked real good. Sunrise or whoever out of California offered me $150K to purchase a crane (all I had to do was sign away my first born child). I am no rookie and have seen the good times and the bad. I knew that after the boom always comes the bust. I declined the loan. I bought equipment (dump and chipper) but I paid cash and lived within my means. I'd hate to be owing that money right now like I see so many others who thought the good times would last for ever did. I am now a little bigger than I was, in the clear, debt free and they are having to work their asses off for chump change to pay off their debts for heavy equipment.

Funny thing happened to me today. I had one guy call me on a tree that I already bid, that has to be taken down with a crane, call a second time. He forgot that he already called me a month ago and got a price from me. I told him that I already priced his tree and asked him if he was ready to move forward. He fumbled and said he would get back to me. That tells me he has exhausted all of his options and is now becoming redundant in his quest for a better price. I bid another large removal (no crane) for a church a couple of months back. I went by there last Friday and saw that the tree is still standing. That tells me that my prices are competitive but not a lot of people are ready to turn loose of that kind of money right now. I'd hate to be having to pay for a piece of equipment like that that I am not working "efficiently" everyday right now in this environment.
 
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Man, I have got to say that I am so thankful that I didn't get neck deep in debt with equipment last year. I was making upwards of 20K a week this time last year. Granted I contracting out a lot of work and was not taking in nearly that amount but on paper it looked real good. Sunrise or whoever out of California offered me $150K to purchase a crane (all I had to do was sign away my first born child). I am no rookie and have seen the good times and the bad. I knew that after the boom always comes the bust. I declined the loan. I bought equipment (dump and chipper) but I paid cash and lived within my means. I'd hate to be owing that money right now like I see so many others who thought the good times would last for ever did. I am now a little bigger than I was, in the clear, debt free and they are having to work their asses off for chump change to pay of their debts for heavy equipment.

Funny thing happened to me today. I had one guy call me on a tree that I already bid that has to be taken down with a crane call a second time. He forgot that he already called me a month ago and got a price from me. I told him that I already priced his tree and asked him if he was ready to kove forward. He fumbled and said he would get back to me. That tells me he kas exhausted all of his options and is now becoming redundant in his quest for a better price. I bid another large removal (no crane) for a church a couple of months back. I went by their last Friday and saw that the tree is still standing. That tells me that my prices are competitive but not a lot of people are ready to turn loose of that kind of money right now. I'd hate to be having to pay for a piece of equipment like that that I am not working "efficiently" everyday right now in this environment.

I agree with that, but you can find a decent 14 ton 70 footer for 25 to 30k and sub out the bigger stuff. Lots can be done with that little unit. We were pulling trees out of houses in the hurricane. You couldn't find a sub crane to save your life. It gives you a HUGE edge.
 
Man, I have got to say that I am so thankful that I didn't get neck deep in debt with equipment last year. I was making upwards of 20K a week this time last year. Granted I contracting out a lot of work and was not taking in nearly that amount but on paper it looked real good. Sunrise or whoever out of California offered me $150K to purchase a crane (all I had to do was sign away my first born child). I am no rookie and have seen the good times and the bad. I knew that after the boom always comes the bust. I declined the loan. I bought equipment (dump and chipper) but I paid cash and lived within my means. I'd hate to be owing that money right now like I see so many others who thought the good times would last for ever did. I am now a little bigger than I was, in the clear, debt free and they are having to work their asses off for chump change to pay of their debts for heavy equipment.

Funny thing happened to me today. I had one guy call me on a tree that I already bid that has to be taken down with a crane call a second time. He forgot that he already called me a month ago and got a price from me. I told him that I already priced his tree and asked him if he was ready to kove forward. He fumbled and said he would get back to me. That tells me he kas exhausted all of his options and is now becoming redundant in his quest for a better price. I bid another large removal (no crane) for a church a couple of months back. I went by their last Friday and saw that the tree is still standing. That tells me that my prices are competitive but not a lot of people are ready to turn loose of that kind of money right now. I'd hate to be having to pay for a piece of equipment like that that I am not working "efficiently" everyday right now in this environment.

It feels good to not have to make payments on equipment. I thought about getting a bucket truck but i figure i can wait til i got the cash. I hate the pressure to owe $. After all "The borrower is servant to the lender".
 
How about this for a possibility, the owner was nowhere to be found and they work hourly, so they were milking an easy job for a days pay?
 
How about this for a possibility, the owner was nowhere to be found and they work hourly, so they were milking an easy job for a days pay?

Any owner who is fool enough to be doing that right now is not long for this world and I would wonder how he ever got in his position to begin with.

Maybe I am the odd ball here but things are definitely not as good as they used to be right now in my area. Any owner that doesn't watch his P's & Q's will loose his ass in the best of times, let alone a bare market where most people are not paying for services that are not absolutely necessary right now or are filthy rich and not concerned about the 1/3 market loss that most have experienced at best.

I feel pretty fortunate. I will turn a good profit this month (if everything that I have booked comes in). Not the money that I made last year but enough for me to survive and even buy more equipment. Life is still good for now.
 
Now if it was me, I'd have taken off a few side limbs, and dropped that thing across the street after pulling the neighbor's mailbox.

Makes me wonder if these kind of companies aren't washing drug money through a tree business. That is not a joke, I really wonder that!.

There are a couple of companies like that by me. One of which knows his stuff. Hes an old school mexican fellow who charges a lot more than most, has more than enough nicer equipment, yet only works 2 or 3 days a week. Ive been told by more than 1 of his ex employees that hes slingin high volume on the side. The other company is a recent start up that came out of the lawn maintenece industry and decided he was sick of driving to 30 houses a day, thought tree guys probably only go to 2-3, and presto changeo, poof! im a tree guy. This guy spends more time washing and waxing his trucks than he does working. and hes always buying brand new stuff. Hes got one of those International CXT's, a crane and just got a brand new bucket. He doesnt even know how to climb. Turns out daddy's rich as hell and signs the note on anything the douche wants. Some guys got all the luck!
 
There are a couple of companies like that by me. One of which knows his stuff. Hes an old school mexican fellow who charges a lot more than most, has more than enough nicer equipment, yet only works 2 or 3 days a week. Ive been told by more than 1 of his ex employees that hes slingin high volume on the side. The other company is a recent start up that came out of the lawn maintenece industry and decided he was sick of driving to 30 houses a day, thought tree guys probably only go to 2-3, and presto changeo, poof! im a tree guy. This guy spends more time washing and waxing his trucks than he does working. and hes always buying brand new stuff. Hes got one of those International CXT's, a crane and just got a brand new bucket. He doesnt even know how to climb. Turns out daddy's rich as hell and signs the note on anything the douche wants. Some guys got all the luck!

what do you mean by "slingin high volume on the side" prentice? Side work on his own company?

Daddy's rich kid will never last. Seen it many times.
 

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