Crofter
Addicted to ArboristSite
Re: chain tests
How good is factory chain?
- Thread starter dbabcock
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jokers
Addicted to ArboristSite
Tony, what surface grinding wheels are you using and where are you getting them? 6" diameter or 8" like a Silvey wheel? Thanks, Russ
kdhotsaw2
ArboristSite Member
chain tests
Hello frank,
Most of my faller customers maintain that a new chain doesnt cut as fast new as it does after two or three sharpenings
After i made the tests and got the cutting results I thought That i should have taken the gullet out on the new chain test. If I do another test I will. I'm sure the gullets made a difference, also I do put different angles on my square grinding wheel. It cuts a 28 degree top plate angle and puts a 12-13 degree side plate angle on the side plate angle. this works well on our racing chains. Also sharpening moves the toorh back and decreases the raker clearance a bit. so that will narrow the tooth slightly and give you a smaller raker clearance, the same as you do with a racing chain.
when I get the time i'm going to test a new oregon chain and see if get the same results
ken
Hello frank,
Most of my faller customers maintain that a new chain doesnt cut as fast new as it does after two or three sharpenings
After i made the tests and got the cutting results I thought That i should have taken the gullet out on the new chain test. If I do another test I will. I'm sure the gullets made a difference, also I do put different angles on my square grinding wheel. It cuts a 28 degree top plate angle and puts a 12-13 degree side plate angle on the side plate angle. this works well on our racing chains. Also sharpening moves the toorh back and decreases the raker clearance a bit. so that will narrow the tooth slightly and give you a smaller raker clearance, the same as you do with a racing chain.
when I get the time i'm going to test a new oregon chain and see if get the same results
ken
Crofter
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thanks for the info KD. When you record time differences we know there is a reason behind it. I get playing with too many variables and my technique is not consistent enough to prove any small differences. That about the sideplate hook is interesting.
Frank
Frank
kdhotsaw2
ArboristSite Member
Oregon chain tests
Hello doug and frank,
Well the carlton stock chain tests got my interest going so I thought I'd try similar tests on some of oregons square chisel chain. I used the same 15 inch log but by the end of the cuts it was 14.5 inches. Cut with the same 385 husky but used a 18 inch bar and oregon 072 square chisel chain that was round ground. Cut with it first stock, then resharpened it on my round grinder and cut , then resharpened it with my square grinder and cut. and the last test is square ground but I changed the sprocket from a 7 pin to a 8 pin sprocket. here are the results;
oregon square chisel factory round ground 6.40 seconds
my round ground resharpen 5.46 seconds
my square ground resharpen 4.86 seconds
install 8 pin sprocket, square ground 4.26 seconds
Not bad for a stock 385 husky I cant tell why the oregon was so much faster than the carlton but it was. the set in the side plate is about 2 degrees greater than the carlton and the top plateon the oregon slopes down a little steeper than the carlton but i wouldent think it would make that much difference
ken
Hello doug and frank,
Well the carlton stock chain tests got my interest going so I thought I'd try similar tests on some of oregons square chisel chain. I used the same 15 inch log but by the end of the cuts it was 14.5 inches. Cut with the same 385 husky but used a 18 inch bar and oregon 072 square chisel chain that was round ground. Cut with it first stock, then resharpened it on my round grinder and cut , then resharpened it with my square grinder and cut. and the last test is square ground but I changed the sprocket from a 7 pin to a 8 pin sprocket. here are the results;
oregon square chisel factory round ground 6.40 seconds
my round ground resharpen 5.46 seconds
my square ground resharpen 4.86 seconds
install 8 pin sprocket, square ground 4.26 seconds
Not bad for a stock 385 husky I cant tell why the oregon was so much faster than the carlton but it was. the set in the side plate is about 2 degrees greater than the carlton and the top plateon the oregon slopes down a little steeper than the carlton but i wouldent think it would make that much difference
ken
Crofter
Addicted to ArboristSite
A satisfied Mind
Kd, your mind won't rest now till you have figured out what caused the difference. There is quite a bit of variance on the top and side clearance angles amongst Carlton, Oregon and Stihl chain. Maybe there is some small advantage to one or the other that a racer could use. Lots goes on behind the curtains with the manufacturers and they make changes we don't even twig to for a while.
Frank
Kd, your mind won't rest now till you have figured out what caused the difference. There is quite a bit of variance on the top and side clearance angles amongst Carlton, Oregon and Stihl chain. Maybe there is some small advantage to one or the other that a racer could use. Lots goes on behind the curtains with the manufacturers and they make changes we don't even twig to for a while.
Frank
kdhotsaw2
ArboristSite Member
treeclimber165
Hello brian
If you get the filing right with round filing it cuts fast. as you can see in the oregon chain tests when round ground is done right the factory round grinding outcut thesquare ground carlton by almost 1.5 seconds. regrinding it on my round grinder cut off 1 more second. most of the fallers file or grind thier chains square. they say it is faster and cuts smoother.
ken
Hello brian
If you get the filing right with round filing it cuts fast. as you can see in the oregon chain tests when round ground is done right the factory round grinding outcut thesquare ground carlton by almost 1.5 seconds. regrinding it on my round grinder cut off 1 more second. most of the fallers file or grind thier chains square. they say it is faster and cuts smoother.
ken
Harley
ArboristSite Operative
Ken
When you reground these chains did you do anything to the raker height? I recently measured new loops of A1 Carlton round ground and Oregon 72LG. The LG has has the raker set roughly .005 higher than the Carlton. Just a thought.
Fish
You've posted nearly three hundred times since the middle of January!
When you reground these chains did you do anything to the raker height? I recently measured new loops of A1 Carlton round ground and Oregon 72LG. The LG has has the raker set roughly .005 higher than the Carlton. Just a thought.
Fish
You've posted nearly three hundred times since the middle of January!
tony marks
Addicted to ArboristSite
ah,sharp chain,just a dream fer some.
think im gonna start a chain sharpening buisiness.
finally got this 3/8 chain passable.but them low profile
little chains sxxx.guess somes got it an some aint.
i dam sho aint.
think im gonna start a chain sharpening buisiness.
finally got this 3/8 chain passable.but them low profile
little chains sxxx.guess somes got it an some aint.
i dam sho aint.
chain tests
Hello Harley,
There are 2 schools of though on correct raker clearance, I prefer a lower clearance on my chains, ie; .020 thousands. this requires more downward pressure on the saw but it cuts faster. as you take the tooth back with 2-3 sharpenings you will arrive at that figure.the smaller the saw the smaller the clearance needs to be. some of my fallers prefer a .025-027 thousand clearance some even run .035-038 thou clearance, just lay the bar on a log and let it self feed but its very aggressive.
the oregon chain has a steeper top plate angle front to rear so you will arrive at .020 thou sooner or with less sharpenings. oregon also has around 2 degrees more set or angle on the side plate so the farther you sharpen back the faster it becomes. when we build a chain for racing purposes we take a new loopand cut it back to the first rivit, this makey the tooth .250 long,. then we sharpen it on the square grinder and then stone the side plate. these semi race chainn will beat almost all other race chains with the exception of uncle arts chains. you have to get up very early in the morning and work all day on your chain to match his chain.
ken
Hello Harley,
There are 2 schools of though on correct raker clearance, I prefer a lower clearance on my chains, ie; .020 thousands. this requires more downward pressure on the saw but it cuts faster. as you take the tooth back with 2-3 sharpenings you will arrive at that figure.the smaller the saw the smaller the clearance needs to be. some of my fallers prefer a .025-027 thousand clearance some even run .035-038 thou clearance, just lay the bar on a log and let it self feed but its very aggressive.
the oregon chain has a steeper top plate angle front to rear so you will arrive at .020 thou sooner or with less sharpenings. oregon also has around 2 degrees more set or angle on the side plate so the farther you sharpen back the faster it becomes. when we build a chain for racing purposes we take a new loopand cut it back to the first rivit, this makey the tooth .250 long,. then we sharpen it on the square grinder and then stone the side plate. these semi race chainn will beat almost all other race chains with the exception of uncle arts chains. you have to get up very early in the morning and work all day on your chain to match his chain.
ken
G-MAN
ArboristSite Lurker
Doesn't anyone use borzon grinding wheels. If your using abrasive style grinding wheels you guys are losing some serious time. I haven't used an abrasive wheel in 6 yrs. and never again will.
jokers
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hi G-Man, how are we losing serious time? Is it in the speed you can grind or is it in the amount of time we spend profiling the wheel? I`ve been reluctant to lay down the cash for a Borazon wheel when I can so many abrasive wheels for the same money. Very curious to hear your angle. I haven`t seen any borazon wheels for square ground chain, seems it would be impractical anyway since many guys use different angles on the wheels, be tough to do with borazon, eh. Russ
Fish
Tree Freak
Yeah, since I took on the job as chainsaw instigator, I have had
to make some changes..
The job requires 100 posts a month.
The job does not pay much, @ $30,000 a year.
Sorry if my posts have not been up to my previous level of quality.
It is a stretch for me to post so much, sorry if I let anyone down.
to make some changes..
The job requires 100 posts a month.
The job does not pay much, @ $30,000 a year.
Sorry if my posts have not been up to my previous level of quality.
It is a stretch for me to post so much, sorry if I let anyone down.
G-MAN
ArboristSite Lurker
As an average I would say the I sharpen 2000+ chains a year. One borzon wheel lasts about 3 months, and I can sharpen 3 to four chains in the same amount of time as one chain with the stone.
I hate sharpening chains, if I had to use a stone again I would quit doing it. My advise is try one! I get my wheels from a company called Triatic. I will post the phone number for those who are interested.
I'm not to knowledgable on the square ground chain, so I couldn't speak intelligently about it's relation with the borzon wheels.
I hate sharpening chains, if I had to use a stone again I would quit doing it. My advise is try one! I get my wheels from a company called Triatic. I will post the phone number for those who are interested.
I'm not to knowledgable on the square ground chain, so I couldn't speak intelligently about it's relation with the borzon wheels.
Fish
Tree Freak
Triatic!
I loved that movie, it made me cry. That Leonardio daVincio is
quite the hunk.
I only make $12,000 a year sharpening chains, but I likely do not
charge enough. How much do you all charge per loop?
I loved that movie, it made me cry. That Leonardio daVincio is
quite the hunk.
I only make $12,000 a year sharpening chains, but I likely do not
charge enough. How much do you all charge per loop?
tony marks
Addicted to ArboristSite
i charge 8 bucks a chain but u know u get what u pay for.
Fish
Tree Freak
8 bucks!!
Dang, you must be good, or look like Cindy Crawford. Do you
charge more if the loop is on the saw?
I never did like that mole though. But the rest looks fine.
Dang, you must be good, or look like Cindy Crawford. Do you
charge more if the loop is on the saw?
I never did like that mole though. But the rest looks fine.
tony marks
Addicted to ArboristSite
well i aint had no customers yet. but if i ever do ,8 bucks it is.
dang if im gonna spend 2 hrs ,on a chain ,for less.
dang if im gonna spend 2 hrs ,on a chain ,for less.
Fish
Tree Freak
Well she hangs with Richard Gere and his gerbils, so we cannot be all that bad.
Two hours on a chain??!! What, are you using a hand file??
Two hours on a chain??!! What, are you using a hand file??
