How I baby my 2 stoke motors.... 30-1 instead of 50-1

[huskihl]

So many blanket statements in this thread. The old-timers still believe that more oil in the mix causes carbon, regardless of what oil it is. Many oils today actually burn cleaner at heavier ratios because of the detergent. But there are also many that leave excess carbon at heavier ratios.

As far as heat, it takes heat to make power. Until you reach the temperature at which the motor can’t survive, more heat is better. Just because that saw was 84° hotter using more oil doesn’t mean anything. Anywhere near the muffler and the temp can change from 300° to 800° by moving the thermometer 1/2”. That saw was probably tuned lean out of the box and then it was way too lean with the added oil. One thing is for certain, the operator had no idea either way.

If you only cut firewood for your home you can run about any ratio you want south of 100:1 and you’ll never wear a saw out. One thing you will never see on here though is a guy who preaches his 100:1 ratios and comes back asking why the bearings took a shît in his saw

 

[Old-Feller]

The saws from the 60's used 1 pint of 30 wt oil to one gallon of gas, My vintage D-49 Sears saw has that information printed under the air filter cover. Old pioneer direct drive saws were the same, And many others I am sure, Just no personal experience with them. I am a firm believer in Synthetic oils for everything, I use VP synthetic 2 stroke oil and Have never had any problems. It states on the label that one mix is good for saws calling for a mixture of 40:1 And the same mixture for 50:1 so covers both with one mix.

 

[ClimberBusinessman]

I hate to admit but about fifty years ago in my teens, once when I ran out of
2 stroke motor oil I mixed 4 stroke oil instead because that is all I had
and ran a saw for a few days with a Stihl chainsaw. I couldnt tell the difference
though I probably shortened the lifespan a thousand hours ? ? ?

I once ran a hedge trimmer on gas mixed with plenty of bar and chain oil because I couldn't find the can of 2 stroke oil. It ran a little rough and smoked like crazy when it ran with that mixture. Perhaps that's the reason why it became so hard to start, but it was a bit hard to start from the point I got it. Definitely better to stick with the 2 stroke oil for an air-cooled engine.

 

[ihookem]

In some Asian countries people run corn cooking oil in their 2 stroke mopeds. Never seemed to matter.

 

[preventec47]

I always heard that TCW-3 is no-go in air-cooled engines because they get way hotter than water-cooled outboards, and presumably get carboned up when using TCW-3.

Can't carbon deposits cause problems with piston rings (like scuffing/scoring/seizing)?

Thanks for reminding me. I learned that lesson 30 years ago and forgot. I found out a problem we have is it is difficult if not impossible to find the genuine air cooled 2 stroke oil in large gallon containers at prices similar to outboard motor 2 stroke oils. It seems like a scam to get us all to pay way more than 100 bucks a gallon for a bunch of the little 2.6 ounce bottles. I have looked at Home Depot, Walmart and several auto parts stores for large bottles of air cooled 2 stroke oil and have not found any.

 

[camel2019]

In some Asian countries people run corn cooking oil in their 2 stroke mopeds. Never seemed to matter.

Guess if you mixed it real heavy and tuned the carb it would work castor oil is a form of vegetable oil and it worked in a lot of engines for a long time.

 

[camel2019]

Thanks for reminding me. I learned that lesson 30 years ago and forgot. I found out a problem we have is it is difficult if not impossible to find the genuine air cooled 2 stroke oil in large gallon containers at prices similar to outboard motor 2 stroke oils. It seems like a scam to get us all to pay way more than 100 bucks a gallon for a bunch of the little 2.6 ounce bottles. I have looked at Home Depot, Walmart and several auto parts stores for large bottles of air cooled 2 stroke oil and have not found any.

I have no problem finding it can get stuff by the gallon at Walmart for small engines and castrol snowmobile oil should work as well.

 

[ihookem]

I am looking for some bigger jugs of it too. I can get TCW3 by the gallon but I cant find Stihl in anything bigger than a pint. I can get Amsoil in quarts. At 50/1 that makes 12 gal. At 64/1 that makes 16 gallons and happy with that . It does cost about $12 now days though. If you go to an Amsoil dealer, you likely could get it i gallons. Even 30 gallon barrels of oil were available a few years ago , so a gallon should be no problem. Of course, some people hate Amsoil dealers. However, now days, it seems most big stores carry a limited supply of Amsoil so no dealers to deal with.

 

[farfromiowa]

Run whatever oil ratio you want...why do we need a thread on it though?

When a thread starts out with "For what is is worth" you know it is going to be packed full of data and statistics.
We also had a fun and very informative thread about covering the saw with tape to make it easier to clean.

 

[camel2019]

I am looking for some bigger jugs of it too. I can get TCW3 by the gallon but I cant find Stihl in anything bigger than a pint. I can get Amsoil in quarts. At 50/1 that makes 12 gal. At 64/1 that makes 16 gallons and happy with that . It does cost about $12 now days though. If you go to an Amsoil dealer, you likely could get it i gallons. Even 30 gallon barrels of oil were available a few years ago , so a gallon should be no problem. Of course, some people hate Amsoil dealers. However, now days, it seems most big stores carry a limited supply of Amsoil so no dealers to deal with.

We have a couple oil dealers here where you can get anything you want not excluding steam oil(600 weight btw same thing model t rear ends use).
shouldn’t be too hard to find 2 stroke oil by the gallon here in southern Ontario it seems Walmart is the cheapest at $21 a gallon for castrol super snowmobile. I buy what I can where I can same goes for bar and chain because that also gets mixed with motor oil and a little grease to oil spray my trucks for the winter real takie never hard ends and keep the salt from rusting my old girls out.

 

[Captain Bruce]

I had an ancient - I want to say Homelite? - been years - that was so sloppy that it required a mix about double what it actually called for. Smoked like a chimney, but ran and cut like a champ. Not sure what happened to that thing - lost it in a move, I suspect.

All of those antique saws...Homelite, Craftsman, Poulan, McCulloch seemed to like 32:1. I was taught to mix at 40:1. That way, it either smokes, or screams

 

[camel2019]

All of those antique saws...Homelite, Craftsman, Poulan, McCulloch seemed to like 32:1. I was taught to mix at 40:1. That way, it either smokes, or screams

All my old girls get 32 to 1 most of my antique/vintage saws call for 16 to 1 but that was back in the 30 weight days.

 

[bwalker]

From what I understand too much oil isnt good either . More oil less gas =engine runs lean , will it damage the saw I'm not sure . I run a little fat on oil but my saws have been tuned to run on the rich end of the spectrum.

I see guys make this same lame comment all the time. Are you adjusting your carb every 20 degree change in temps? Because that temp drop leans the carb out a hell of a lot more than a change in oil ratio.

 

[bwalker]

You run the risk of clogging the carb or having carbon deposits. Also, if you're running equipment meant for 50:1 on 30:1 without tuning the carb, I'd expect it to run a bit rough and lower on power. You might also want to think about some of the potentially negative health effects from breathing all that extra oil in the exhaust. I don't think you're going to extend the life of your equipment that much, and you might even worsen performance in the meantime. If you must run 30:1, at least tune the carb and run a fuel additive like B12 fuel additive from time to time to clear out the carbon buildup.

Clogging the carb? You joking?

 

[bwalker]

Using too much oil will eventually cause rings to stick, Resulting in lost compression. It would definitely help the bearings though.

Actually the opposite is true.

 

[bwalker]

I always heard that TCW-3 is no-go in air-cooled engines because they get way hotter than water-cooled outboards, and presumably get carboned up when using TCW-3.

Can't carbon deposits cause problems with piston rings (like scuffing/scoring/seizing)?

This.

 

[bwalker]

Modern JASO FC/FD 2stroke oils (aircooled ***) have also lover flash points.....like Shell advance ultra 2t....or any modern 2stroke oils labeled for mofas/Scooters etc...

And yes.....I would never use TC3-W labeled oil un any aircooled ***

EDIT : why is O*P*E labeled as a swear word?

Flash point is useful for shipping and storage and NOTHING else.

 

[bwalker]

Adding extra oil to the mix has a few drawbacks. Oil burns hotter than fuel. If you're not spooging out of the exhaust at 30:1 it means you're running significantly hotter than on 50:1.

When you go from 50:1 to 30:1 you go from 2% oil and 98% fuel to 3.3% oil and 96.7% fuel. When you go from sea-level to about 650ft you lean out your mixture by about 1%. So you're right saying that it's not likely to cause a lean seize, if you adjust the carb properly. You might get some difficulty starting, because the pilot jet is a tad on the small side, but it shouldn't be anything major. You might foul a plug if it doesn't start right up, but that's nothing you can't fix with a lighter and a plug wrench.

I don't think running more oil has any added benefits on the wear of the saw. It's designed for 50:1. Modern oils are very slick and do a great job creating film. By running 1.3% more oil through the saw, you will increase the cost of running it. I don't think any possible savings in service life would offset the cost of the extra oil over the life of the saw.

Spooging is caused by the mixture being rich for the load in the majority of cases.

 

[bwalker]

(jump to 13min for numbers)

this video says different, under full load cylinder was 29c or 84f hotter when using 25:1 compared to 50:1 and only after 3 cuts too!
and you may not see carbon build up as much if your are using outboard oil (water cooled) which has a lower flash point than air cooled oil hence will burn off at lower temp (even before the oil does it job of lubricating the hot side corner of piston)
most oils that say are for both outboards and chainsaw are water cooled oil in disguise

That test is so poorly done its meaningless.

 

[bwalker]

(jump to 13min for numbers)

this video says different, under full load cylinder was 29c or 84f hotter when using 25:1 compared to 50:1 and only after 3 cuts too!
and you may not see carbon build up as much if your are using outboard oil (water cooled) which has a lower flash point than air cooled oil hence will burn off at lower temp (even before the oil does it job of lubricating the hot side corner of piston)
most oils that say are for both outboards and chainsaw are water cooled oil in disguise

Outboard oil often has a higher Flashpoint. Not that it makes any difference. It also has more heavy oil and no detergent, so it will make a air cooled motor develope deposits, which is why TCW3 oils are not reccomened by any MFG of air cooled equipment