How I baby my 2 stoke motors.... 30-1 instead of 50-1

[bwalker]

Shocking if the actual quality varies by where it’s made. I’m in the UK and my container of Stihl HP Super says made in Germany to “ISO-L-EGD Low Smoke-Fuel Stabaliser”.

Canadian Stihl oil is made by Castrol Canada. The US branded Stihl oil is made by Omni.

 

[bwalker]

Its such a minefield. Right or wrong I feel more comfortable running my expensive saw and brushcutters with high quality oil approved by the manufacturer. I found the ISO standard document for the current highest grade ISO-L-EGD oil (ex Stihl HP Super) and it requires really extensive testing and fuel stabilisation to meet that high standard. In the UK Stihl HP Super is £35 for 5l so not that expensive for the peace of mind.

Can you attach the document?

 

[bwalker]

I dont think I have seen any brand of 2 stroke oil that specifies it is exclusively for air cooled motors only other than the oils from the chain saw mfgrs ie Stihl, Husqvarna, Craftsman, Echo etc. I thought I was doing ok because I had a gallon and a half left of
Quicksilver pure synthetic outboard motor oil and using it in my chainsaw. Sure it seems to run ok but evidently I am shaving hundreds of hours off the useful life of
the machine by doing so. About 15 years ago Pennzoil sold a specific for AIRCOOLED
2 stroke motors oil but when I google it I see it has been discontinued. Qakerstate
says it has a specific air cooled oil but I have not found it anywhere for sale.

It's not confusing if you find and run a Jaso FC,FD or ISO EGC,EGD oil. Pretty simple.

 

[Captain Bruce]

Thanks for reminding me. I learned that lesson 30 years ago and forgot. I found out a problem we have is it is difficult if not impossible to find the genuine air cooled 2 stroke oil in large gallon containers at prices similar to outboard motor 2 stroke oils. It seems like a scam to get us all to pay way more than 100 bucks a gallon for a bunch of the little 2.6 ounce bottles. I have looked at Home Depot, Walmart and several auto parts stores for large bottles of air cooled 2 stroke oil and have not found any.

Well said. I run marine 2-stroke thru my oil-injected 40hp Yamaha, on an old pontoon boat, but would never mix it with gasoline. Thats nuts.

 

[ihookem]

BWalker , page back or so you said that Stihl is garbage at a premium price. I guess the next question is, what do you run in your chainsaws and why? I have run a lot of Stihl and Amsoil. I have also run quite a bit of cheap stuff . What is a good chainsaw oil?

 

[Canyon Angler]

Well said. I run marine 2-stroke thru my oil-injected 40hp Yamaha, on an old pontoon boat, but would never mix it with gasoline. Thats nuts.

I have a 3-cylinder Yamaha 40 with oil injection, too, but I mix at least a little oil with the gas (like 100-to-1) so that at least there's SOME oil in the fuel if the oil injection setup goes belly-up.

I've heard of people having trouble with the oil injection system just scrapping it and mixing oil into the fuel at 50-to-1 like in the olden days. Works fine, from what I hear. (But I don't think it will work with Evinrude E-TECs.)

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

So many blanket statements in this thread. The old-timers still believe that more oil in the mix causes carbon, regardless of what oil it is. Many oils today actually burn cleaner at heavier ratios because of the detergent. But there are also many that leave excess carbon at heavier ratios.

As far as heat, it takes heat to make power. Until you reach the temperature at which the motor can’t survive, more heat is better. Just because that saw was 84° hotter using more oil doesn’t mean anything. Anywhere near the muffler and the temp can change from 300° to 800° by moving the thermometer 1/2”. That saw was probably tuned lean out of the box and then it was way too lean with the added oil. One thing is for certain, the operator had no idea either way.

If you only cut firewood for your home you can run about any ratio you want south of 100:1 and you’ll never wear a saw out. One thing you will never see on here though is a guy who preaches his 100:1 ratios and comes back asking why the bearings took a shît in his saw

I don't use my saws too much, but my leaf blower and 19 year old weedwhacker get used heavily. Been mixing the weedwhacker 100:1 with Amsoil Saber since year 3 with it, and the blower I acquired a couple years ago, but is now getting the same mix. Weedwhacker still has 135 PSI cold, and it's never been apart for scraping carbon, because there is next to none. Any oil other than Saber I wouldn't dare mix 100:1. If the rings are perfect, pretty safe bet the bearings are, too.

Neighbor buys Saber from me, and cut an entire 10 acre plot with the one Stihl saw he had at the time mixed at 80:1. That's cut down, limbed, and chopped up every single tree up there with that ONE saw! I couldn't believe it when I went up there. Saw still runs great and also has never been apart for anything, not even a carb clean.

 

[thenne1713]

For what its worth, I dont ever use any of the elite synthetic 2 stroke oils for chain saws, but I frequently use 2 stroke oils for outboard motors and conventional 2 stroke oils for air cooled motors meeting the min specs. What I do to baby my engines somewhat is I run all my mixes at 30 to 1 instead of 50 to 1 to assure a little extra lubrication to my
bearings and cylinder walls etc. while running and also to leave heavier coating when saws are idle. I would expect there to be excessive carbon buildup perhaps but so far I have not seen it. The saws seem to run just as well and
I dont really pay much more for oil as I usually buy it by the gallon.

Some years back, my new $700 HUSQVARNA saw was at end of day on day 2, and would not restart for one final cut, I thought out of fuel, and put in truck; I did not use again for 2-3yrs, due to back issues, and then it would not start. Dealer said Low compression $600+ to repair w/ new PC kit, no warranty, so I took it down, found ring locked down on exhaust side; thin coat looked like MAGIC MARKER on the ring, after breaking to remove. Very slight scratch. Had run 40:1 name brand DINO for break-in, but new piston ring ($12) and back in business w/ 125-PSI (MFR says 120-MIN to run); that is now 14-yrs ago, runs great milling, suspect compression has improved as ring seated, but not tested and I NOW USE 50:1 ECHO PERFORMANCE BLEND SYNTHETIC. ECHO was FIRST to use Synthetic and offer a 5-yrs guarantee, when Stihl and others were still 1-yr warranty and Dino Oil. REDLINE article once stated (similar to " at what temperature does your oil change from a LUBE into GOO Adhesive?"

 

[bwalker]

BWalker , page back or so you said that Stihl is garbage at a premium price. I guess the next question is, what do you run in your chainsaws and why? I have run a lot of Stihl and Amsoil. I have also run quite a bit of cheap stuff . What is a good chainsaw oil?

Anything in the FC or FD list is fine. If you want to stick to MFG oil Husky and Echo Red Armour are both good.
I ran out of Red Armour this spring and am currently using up some Honda HP2 and Yamalube 2R I have. Probably go back to Red Armour after that.

 

[preventec47]

As far as I can tell Lucas Pure Synthetic for snowmobiles
https://lucasoil.com/pdf/TDS-2-Cycle-Full-Synthetic-Snowmobile.pdfis the best deal at $37 per gallon "INCLUDING" shipping. ( Amazon)
The specs linked to above say it is good for air cooled engines like chainsaws
and it appears to have some good ratings by the testing organizations.
What is hard to tell from reading the specs is whether it would be good
for marine use in outboards as they say it is good for about everything ? ? ?

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

Can't be good for everything. Not possible. Snowmobiles these days tend to be liquid cooled, and run a majority of the time below 32°F - doesn't sound like anything I'd want to run in a hard working saw. Probably fine for a small limbing saw that you don't push too hard.

Now lets compare that stuff to Saber. It is MUCH much thinner - that and the very low pour point are my first red flags for anything to do with summertime temps in an air cooled engine. And look at the differences in flash point - HUGE:


________________________________________________

 

[Canyon Angler]

As far as I can tell Lucas Pure Synthetic for snowmobiles
https://lucasoil.com/pdf/TDS-2-Cycle-Full-Synthetic-Snowmobile.pdfis the best deal at $37 per gallon "INCLUDING" shipping. ( Amazon)
The specs linked to above say it is good for air cooled engines like chainsaws
and it appears to have some good ratings by the testing organizations.
What is hard to tell from reading the specs is whether it would be good
for marine use in outboards as they say it is good for about everything ? ? ?

Trying to save a few bucks on 2T oil seems like false economy to me.
It's like buying the cheapest house paint, cheapest roofing shingles, or cheapest tires you can find.

Paying $37 for a gallon of 2T oil instead of $65 (for the Motul 800 I linked to above -- an oil known to be good for chainsaws) will save you about 22¢ per ounce of oil used, or about 66¢ on a gallon of 2mix. Considering that non-ethanol gas costs around $4.50 per gallon, this represents a whopping savings of 15% ... do ya feel lucky?

As for outboard engine oil, I sure as hell wouldn't run anything not labeled as TCW-3, and depending on which engine I was running it in, I would want the motor manufacturer''s signoff on the oil, as well. Have you priced an outboard motor lately?

 

[thenne1713]

I am looking for some bigger jugs of it too. I can get TCW3 by the gallon but I cant find Stihl in anything bigger than a pint. I can get Amsoil in quarts. At 50/1 that makes 12 gal. At 64/1 that makes 16 gallons and happy with that . It does cost about $12 now days though. If you go to an Amsoil dealer, you likely could get it i gallons. Even 30 gallon barrels of oil were available a few years ago , so a gallon should be no problem. Of course, some people hate Amsoil dealers. However, now days, it seems most big stores carry a limited supply of Amsoil so no dealers to deal with.

So you use in your air cooled engine/s an oil that is listed in EVERY air-cooled MANUAL to NOT use, because it is designed for cooler running water-cooled engines, and LESS water contamination? I will PASS on anyhting else YOU have to say.

 

[bwalker]

As far as I can tell Lucas Pure Synthetic for snowmobiles
https://lucasoil.com/pdf/TDS-2-Cycle-Full-Synthetic-Snowmobile.pdfis the best deal at $37 per gallon "INCLUDING" shipping. ( Amazon)
The specs linked to above say it is good for air cooled engines like chainsaws
and it appears to have some good ratings by the testing organizations.
What is hard to tell from reading the specs is whether it would be good
for marine use in outboards as they say it is good for about everything ? ? ?

A few guys have had problems with Lucas.

 

[camel2019]

Trying to save a few bucks on 2T oil seems like false economy to me.
It's like buying the cheapest house paint, cheapest roofing shingles, or cheapest tires you can find.

Paying $37 for a gallon of 2T oil instead of $65 (for the Motul 800 I linked to above -- an oil known to be good for chainsaws) will save you about 22¢ per ounce of oil used, or about 66¢ on a gallon of 2mix. Considering that non-ethanol gas costs around $4.50 per gallon, this represents a whopping savings of 15% ... do ya feel lucky?

As for outboard engine oil, I sure as hell wouldn't run anything not labeled as TCW-3, and depending on which engine I was running it in, I would want the motor manufacturer''s signoff on the oil, as well. Have you priced an outboard motor lately?

$65 for a gallon of oil is just outrageous I’m happy with my motomaster that meets FC standards it’s now $36 for 5 litres and I will only buy it when it’s on sale.

 

[ihookem]

So you use in your air cooled engine/s an oil that is listed in EVERY air-cooled MANUAL to NOT use, because it is designed for cooler running water-cooled engines, and LESS water contamination? I will PASS on anyhting else YOU have to say.

In response to post # 73, where did I say I was using in my engine/s an oil not made for air cooled engines??? Now, I know you are from Kentucky, so your reading skills are likely at about a 3rd grade level on a good day. I was talking about getting TCW3 in gallons , but can't find Stihl oil anything bigger than a pint. So lighten up on the bottle when you come here and make an a$$ out of yourself, it was only 8:17 AM when you posted and already half drunk. If ya don't like my response to your jerk post, than ignore me and I will do the same. It's an oil thread , so relax.

 

[bwalker]

In response to post # 73, where did I say I was using in my engine/s an oil not made for air cooled engines??? Now, I know you are from Kentucky, so your reading skills are likely at about a 3rd grade level on a good day. I was talking about getting TCW3 in gallons , but can't find Stihl oil anything bigger than a pint. So lighten up on the bottle when you come here and make an a$$ out of yourself, it was only 8:17 AM when you posted and already half drunk. If ya don't like my response to your jerk post, than ignore me and I will do the same. It's an oil thread , so relax.

Citgo aircooled is a good FC/FD rated oil snd should be available local. Inuse to buy it for something like $7 a quart.

 

[preventec47]

I am still fuzzy on the tech specs that pertain directly to air cooled engines.
I read the testing methods for the FB FC anf FD ratings and I didnt see anything stand out that said "good for hot air cooled engines" The reason why I pointed out LUCAS snowmobile oil was that it was "pure synthetic" ( evidenced by very low temp pour point) .... dino oil freezes solid at much higher temps. That is a very good thing for grease and oils if you are in the Artic and it gets 40 below zero. I cant really see
what the benefit of pure synthetic is for 2 stroke motors where the oil is consumed.
In 4 stroke motors the synthetic oil lasts twice as long before turning to trash.
I think I can see that TCW3 ( something similar) rating is definitely for water cooled.....
but I dont see the spec that says "I am for air cooled hot engines" So more commonly I am just looking for the oil description where the mfgr says it is for air cooled engines.

 

[Not_Husky]

BWalker , page back or so you said that Stihl is garbage at a premium price. I guess the next question is, what do you run in your chainsaws and why? I have run a lot of Stihl and Amsoil. I have also run quite a bit of cheap stuff . What is a good chainsaw oil?

IMO, Husqvarna & Stihl synthetic has preservatives & other additives to counter gasoline with ethanol.
The saw will run at peak performance, be protected, and the mix won't oxidize & go bad in a can of the carb months or over winter.
Buying top tier gasoline from Chevron, Mobile, Shell etc is even more important nowadays than the brand of 2-stroke. Ethanol increases the octane rating of poor quality, corrosive discount gasoline that will damage and destroy a 2-stroke fuel system quickly, even cause a saw to run lean & burn up. The damage will force down time, re-tuning, and repairs which will cost a great deal more than is saved at the pump. Running premium gas with synthetic oil will help ensure your saw will start and run right every time. Priceless.
- I got some bad gas yesrs ago that wiped out the fuel systems of every small engine I had as well as all my neighbor's. It even took out the fuel pump in my truck. We refer to it as The Year of the Silent Spring, because everyone's lawn mower, trimmer & blower was dead after sitting over winter with bad gas in them. The repair shop had a mountain of tools & several months back log. A lot of people just bought new & abandoned their downed equipment at the saw shop because they had work to do & couldn't wait months on repairs. The local landfill also had a mountain of discarded small engine equipment, much of it like new. What a waste.

 

[Not_Husky]

BWalker , page back or so you said that Stihl is garbage at a premium price. I guess the next question is, what do you run in your chainsaws and why? I have run a lot of Stihl and Amsoil. I have also run quite a bit of cheap stuff . What is a good chainsaw oil?

IMO, Husqvarna & Stihl synthetic has preservatives & other additives to counter gasoline with ethanol.
The saw will run at peak performance, be protected, and the mix won't oxidize & go bad in a can of the carb months or over winter.
Buying top tier gasoline from Chevron, Mobile, Shell etc is even more important nowadays than the brand of 2-stroke. Ethanol increases the octane rating of poor quality, corrosive discount gasoline that will damage and destroy a 2-stroke fuel system quickly, even cause a saw to run lean & burn up. The damage will force down time, re-tuning, and repairs which will cost a great deal more than is saved at the pump. Running premium gas with synthetic oil will help ensure your saw will start and run right every time. Priceless.
- I got some bad gas yesrs ago that wiped out the fuel systems of every small engine I had as well as all my neighbor's. It even took out the fuel pump in my truck. We refer to it as The Year of the Silent Spring, because everyone's lawn mower, trimmer & blower was dead after sitting over winter with bad gas in them. The repair shop had a mountain of tools & several months back log. A lot of people just bought new & abandoned their downed equipment at the saw shop because they had work to do & couldn't wait months on repairs. The local landfill also had a mountain of discarded small engine equipment, much of it like new. What a waste. Last year the saw shop closed. But before he did, he recommended that everyone just buy the pre mixed two stroke fuel. It wasn't just his opinion, but also that of Husqvarna. The varying quality of fuel was costing them a fortune in warranty claims and in brand destruction. People just assumed the problem was the quality & design of the saw, regardless of brand, and would toss their perfectly good equipment & switch to a different brand. Search for 'reconditioned Husqvarna chainsaw' and you'll find many like-new consumer line saws at a discount. Professionals have figured out where to buy good gas. Home Depot shoppers will buy the cheapest gas they can find, and end up returning a badly running saw that often won't start as a result..