How is there any money in firewood sales?

[Cedarkerf]

Ive lived off firewood sales in the past and money can be made out here but we get 275 a crd for fir and alder. Ive done you cut, you haul, sold rounds, split split and delivered andcould make decent money at it we have our firewood license. I do have limited job skills as a licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic and wrench on $300 million dollar jets.
The key is efficent wood supply the best kind is when people pay you to cut your firewood, make it a husband and wife deal I have a great lady who will work a man into the ground although shes had to take some time off for health reasons. We just do it on the side now but it can be done. weve got about 25 cords that we can sell this fall and will be a great return on the time we have in. Just my 2 cents

 

[Hedgerow]

I wanted to drop a bomb in this thread and give somebody the business about a totally unreasonable stance on the firewood biz... But alas, I can't...
Seems its a matter of perspective... I will sell about 40 cord this year... Do I think I could do this for a living? Yes... But I would not want to... The market is to goofy and fickle for me to want to... Now, that being said... I clear a lot of fence rows... Thus I cut a lot, and myself and family burn about 10 cord a year and always have... Several years ago, I came to the brutal conclusion that whether I liked it or not, I was gonna have a chainsaw in my hands many hours every year... Why not just enjoy it... Make sport of it!!! Cut it!!! Split it!!! Stack it in a barn!!! Hell, build a barn just for drying wood!!! When I figured I'd have to sell a crap load just to make room for next years cutting, I decided to price it high, so as not to ruin the market for wood around these parts... But it was dry and in small splits... Guess what? I was sold out by December... Seems convenience is worth something... Always dry and clean, and pick it up whenever it suits you... Any ammt... Don't matter...
:msp_wink:

Now would you guys rep me??? I gotta get off page 3...:msp_rolleyes:

 

[Gavman]

This has to be one of the best threads ever on this site ever, great arguments both for and against... and the conclusion Imo is nobody it right

 

[Hedgerow]

This has to be one of the best threads ever on this site ever, great arguments both for and against... and the conclusion Imo is nobody it right

Just like a "who makes the best chainsaw" thread...
But what about rep???
I need some...:msp_unsure:

 

[singinwoodwackr]

I agree that location and source of wood are huge factors. I started in the mid '80s on a firewood crew taking out Almond orchards in the Central Valley of California. We got paid by the cord...$40...cut 18-20", hand split with a maul and piled at the stump with the brush piled into the center of two rows. Wood sold from the field for $70, U-pick up. That same wood sold in the SF Bay area for $100+ green. Dry went for around$150/cord, but we didn't deal with that. Today it goes for $300. Factor fuel at 1980 prices vs $4/gal now and there isn't much room for profit any more. We didn't have nice, straight 'poles' to cut into rounds like other areas of the country so production isn't nearly as fast. Norcal oak sells for $375 now and that supply shrinks every year. At least almond is renewable as the trees produce for only 25yrs or so and are replaced with new.

Skills? You bet it takes skills.
I had two borrowed saws from my step father and didn't have a clue what I was doing...other than having fun cutting wood into random lengths and wearing out two saws from misuse One day I was in rows next to the best cutter in the group and watched him literally take trees apart with absolutely no wasted motion. It was like watching a choreographed dance. He wasn't just cutting up a tree like most tree services do, he was cutting it up with easy-to-stack firewood in mind. There is a huge difference. I would spend all day cutting maybe a cord while he and his 42yr old daughter would produce 5, ready to sell. I stopped cutting that day and started learning and it took several years to become even half as good.

Frankly, I don't know how wood sellers make around here. Now I cut for myself and friends, mainly for heat and exercise.
My hat's off to those of you who are making a living at it.

 

[bcorradi]

I just started selling wood this year to offset the logtruck loads I buy for personal use. I put an ad last week and I'm selling loggers cords for $375 per cord delivered and I'm selling them in 1/3 cord loads. This is a real light time of year to sell firewood, but I've sold 4 loads in 5 days so it hasn't been too bad. I buy the logs of white birch for $80 per loggers cord so it isn't too bad money. I'm not trying to be a volume dealer, but I'm just trying to sell 10 loads to pay for the personal wood I use.

 

[spike60]

I just started selling wood this year to offset the logtruck loads I buy for personal use. I put an ad last week and I'm selling loggers cords for $375 per cord delivered and I'm selling them in 1/3 cord loads. This is a real light time of year to sell firewood, but I've sold 4 loads in 5 days so it hasn't been too bad. I buy the logs of white birch for $80 per loggers cord so it isn't too bad money. I'm not trying to be a volume dealer, but I'm just trying to sell 10 loads to pay for the personal wood I use.

I have a customer near me that does that also. Buys himself two log loads. One for his own use, and he processes and sells the other to cover the overall cost, so his wood is "free" similar to any of us who scrounge wood.

I wanted to jump back to this thread because one of my favorite old timers stopped in yesterday to buy some bar oil. Guy does firewood mostly for the excersize/keep active value, and of course to make some extra cash. The guy is 86 years old. (no, I didn't hit the wrong button) Says he's a little behind right now due to all the hot weather, but he was just beaming because he just came from the doctor who told him he's "doing great". He's had some health issues and swears keeping busy is the only thing that keeps him alive.

 

[Preston]

Reading all these post tells me one thing for sure. You folks are very passionate about cutting firewood, or either some of you want us to think you know all about selling firewood. I was an ironworker for 35 years but how could I know it all. I was good at what I did but I also learned everyday. Why do some have to disagree is such a virulent manner? Passion for what you believe! Everything on here is just opinions and experences. That does not make it right or wrong, just what you feel is so and what you've learned over time. I don't see it as argumentative as much as print on a page has a way of failing to exibit expression.

And remember one thing for sure, anybody's post is just that. His post. It's not directed at any paticular person so don't take it so personal.

This is just my opinion so back to firewood sales.

I sold a long bed truck of split hickory for a college cookout once. It was enough almost drag the back bumper. The two boys that picked it up was complaining it should be more wood. I got my saw, axe, wedge, and sledge and handed it to um. I pointed out the trees and said they could cut, split and load till the tires popped. I got my $70 and they left. Just to much work to argue over with children. :msp_smile:

 

[sb47]

Thanks for responding and please allow me to comment.

You will likely need to hire employees to even sell $40,000 worth of firewood, let alone selling $400,000 as I posted above. Even sixty cords a year would be very difficult for only one man to handle by himself. Your expenses to cover the truck(s), your saws, your splitting equipment, and your fuel will quickly erode away your profit. Add the cost of your help, and nothing is left.

That's the way it is. However, if you want to give it a try, by all means proceed. Just don't plan on making big money. It's great exercise, will keep your mind active, and that's why I do it today.

If I may point out that your only basing it on bulk sales (by the cord).
If you break it down to bundles and small sales then the profit margin goes up.

I have approached many places like grocery stores, sporting good stores (Academy)
At big chain stores and I always get 1 of 2 responses.
The first one is insect infestation; they are leery of wood and what it contains.
The second is volume, they want someone that can supply there whole chain at dirt cheap prices.

I also think location plays a big part. I sell from my home and I’m located on a dead end road where no one knows I’m here. I sell 50 cords a year just using cl ads and that’s it. I don’t use any other form of advertising.
If I had a lot on a busy road front, I’m sure sales would be better.

Fuel prices have killed any chance of making any money if you have to go out and collect wood one cord at a time. I have a deal with 2 tree companies that bring me wood for free. They save the cost of dumping in a land fill or taking it to the mulch yard. If I had to go out and collect it, I would go broke real fast. Even getting wood for free, I make very little.

The wood they bring me is big wood, average diameter from 18” to 48” with some big forks and Y’s so processing does take some time. I like the big wood for bbq wood because it’s mostly heart wood and I sell that for a premium.


Dennis

 

[logbutcher]

Reading all these post tells me one thing for sure. You folks are very passionate about cutting firewood, or either some of you want us to think you know all about selling firewood. I was an ironworker for 35 years but how could I know it all. I was good at what I did but I also learned everyday. Why do some have to disagree is such a virulent manner? Passion for what you believe! Everything on here is just opinions and experences. That does not make it right or wrong, just what you feel is so and what you've learned over time. I don't see it as argumentative as much as print on a page has a way of failing to exibit expression.
And remember one thing for sure, anybody's post is just that. His post. It's not directed at any paticular person so don't take it so personal.

Nailed it.....!! Big time. Thanks.

Would all those banished to Banned Camp ( "Sarcastic Baiting" is one felony; Sarcastic Baiting ---Whiskery Tango ) for hurts to the self-annointed sensitive "professionals" here, kindly raise their hard working, calloused hands ? :too_sad:

JMNSHEO

 

[Wood Doctor]

Here's My Point

I am not sure what your actual point is? I am a logger, and I have done enough firewood CS&D to bury a skyscraper..?

The point I was trying to make is that a logger, with the same amount of capital investment in equipment and personnel, can probably generate more sales and profit that anyone selling firewood. The reason is that a logger only needs a few commercial/industrial customers and can collect about $1,000 per flat bed load. Working dilligently, a logger with perhaps only one part-time employee helping, can then bring in $5,000 a week.

I doubt seriously that any firewood partnership, even selling to dozens of customers could do that because of the labor intensive effort involved to process it and deliver it. Perhaps it could be done, but it's going to take some dandy equipment and a bundle of steady customers. In this neck of the woods, that's virtually impossible.

 

[zogger]

The point I was trying to make is that a logger, with the same amount of capital investment in equipment and personnel, can probably generate more sales and profit that anyone selling firewood. The reason is that a logger only needs a few commercial/industrial customers and can collect about $1,000 per flat bed load. Working dilligently, a logger with perhaps only one part-time employee helping, can then bring in $5,000 a week.

I doubt seriously that any firewood partnership, even selling to dozens of customers could do that because of the labor intensive effort involved to process it and deliver it. Perhaps it could be done, but it's going to take some dandy equipment and a bundle of steady customers. In this neck of the woods, that's virtually impossible.

I would agree with you on gross over all economics. I think a case could be made for a good arborist company making more per man hour though, in most major urban markets. Technical take downs and clean ups are not cheap.

but...I don't really know that either, don't follow any of the markets all that close. I do know around here the vast majority of "pro logging" is done with harvesters. You can see that by what goes by on log trucks, stripped pine logs, 9 out of 10. You see some large diameter hardwoods on trucks, but not a lot. I think most of the hardwood action is guys doing firewood, small scale commercial or like personal use scroungers. Most of that you see is in pickups or pickups pulling like heavy car trailers loaded down with rounds.

Yard tree removal and like powerline trimming is by far and away the most common wood cutting (guys with saws in their hands) activity I see. So I would imagine that is the most in demand, so the most profitable, even after equipment expenses and so on.

There's a lot of personal wood burning here for heat, but it isn't anything like up north, so you don't see those sort of prices. Plus, this is a heavily wooded state that has gotten nailed three years in a row now with massive storms, fifty buhzillion cords came down and were cut up and dispersed. People who wanted wood could go get it for the hauling. I know I have offered some free hickory around here for guys to cook with, no takers! Everyone has wood already.

On into cold weather, firewood sales go up, you start seeing stacks here and there by the road for salwe, or guys sitting in parking lots with trailer fulls, but this time of year, meh.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Reply to Zogger and Others

Well, I am up north, and I will never see $300 a cord. I might see $150 or maybe $160 in my lifetime. The reason is that competitive fuels are so cheap. Remember also that loggers supply wood that is seldom burned--perhaps the slabwood is, but the rest goes elsewhere.

Firewood suppliers are victimized by cheap fossil fuel prices. Natural gas is now dirt cheap and propane wiill follow it this year as it has always done in the past. Today, I offered firewood to a campsite director for $110 a pickup load, racked up. He hesitated, and then finally agreed to try a sample load, which I guaranteed will be no less than 85 cu ft, split and dry as a bone. Most is red elm. I'll throw in some ash.

So, I can support my family this year for 500 of these deliveries. Zogger, do you now understand the problem?

 

[southpaw]

I do have limited job skills as a licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic and wrench on $300 million dollar jets.

Yes it's quite obvious that many who sell some firewood have job skills OK , and now that you have used this as some platform to gets ooohs and aahss get over it already.
My inital comment was not really out of line , nor was it meant to bait .......it was said because that is how I see things and not some all conculsive gathering of nationwide collective data.

If there are some who feel they are insulted by the limited jobs skill comment that i made that was not really my intention and in hindsight probably something I would not use on a forum again but shows me one thing thats consistent with some people , including myself is that some of us just like to cut firewood for reasons other than cash and really don't have to explain our madness or reasons for such sick behaviour. Yes we are huge garden fanatics also and while we don't let money ruin that for us either I promised not to throw rocks at the roadside vendors .

When you get to a point in life where you are doing things for more of passion and sense of worth you have made a statement , now if you have to come on the internet and wave your credentials and justify your actions for the chase of a dollar good luck to you .

 

[Preston]

Yes it's quite obvious that many who sell some firewood have job skills OK , and now that you have used this as some platform to gets ooohs and aahss get over it already.
My inital comment was not really out of line , nor was it meant to bait .......it was said because that is how I see things and not some all conculsive gathering of nationwide collective data.

If there are some who feel they are insulted by the limited jobs skill comment that i made that was not really my intention and in hindsight probably something I would not use on a forum again but shows me one thing thats consistent with some people , including myself is that some of us just like to cut firewood for reasons other than cash and really don't have to explain our madness or reasons for such sick behaviour. Yes we are huge garden fanatics also and while we don't let money ruin that for us either I promised not to throw rocks at the roadside vendors .

When you get to a point in life where you are doing things for more of passion and sense of worth you have made a statement , now if you have to come on the internet and wave your credentials and justify your actions for the chase of a dollar good luck to you .

Some folks just like to brag cuz that have a job. Their need to cut wood is a minor thing compared to some on the site. Every topic or site has their share of um.

 

[spike60]

Fuel prices have killed any chance of making any money if you have to go out and collect wood one cord at a time. I have a deal with 2 tree companies that bring me wood for free. They save the cost of dumping in a land fill or taking it to the mulch yard. If I had to go out and collect it, I would go broke real fast. Even getting wood for free, I make very little.

Dennis

This is a very important point, and you made it a little better than I did in an earlier post. Plus I think there is a huge efficiency factor if you have to chase wood one load at a time, (if your intention is to sell it). Unless you can go directly from the wood lot to the customer, it almost doubles the work involved. Not to mention the issue of how long you might have access to a particular log lot. That's why I can now see the logic to having log loads delivered. The time and work it saves, by always having the wood nearby for processing goes a long way towards mitigating the cost. Your deal however with the wood being dropped off for free, is of course the best set up, and I know a couple guys who have that same situation.

I only cut for myself, so chasing wood a load at a time is fine. Going to grab one this morning in fact and try out one of the new 550XP's.

As far as this thread getting argumentative, I agree there's no need for that. What it shows is that there are almost endless variables/realities that can be plugged into the firewood equation. We all have to play the cards we are dealt, and everyone comes up with a formula that works for them. In the end, we all end up with a pile of wood to burn or sell, and that's why we are all here, right?

 

[Fred Wright]

Firewood sales is a fickle business, always has been. People don't want to pay anything for firewood. There's a guy down the road offering seasoned face cords for $60.00, you haul and he'll help ya load it. He don't move much wood.

Back in the '80s I worked with the BIL and nephew to load wood and deliver in the suburbs of DC. It was good money then cuz fuel oil was so high. A lot of people were buying wood burners, and firewood.

Them boys didn't have to pay for the wood... got it through their arborist company. Take down a yard tree, clean up and get to the bank before rush hour. Dump the slash at the county landfill for chipping, unload the rounds at the house. Have the kids split it on an off day and stack for the next season's deliveries. It was gravy.

Didn't take long for everybody and his grandma to aquire a pickup and start hauling firewood to the city. A customer in Mt. Vernon told us she'd have three wood sellers knock on her door on a given day. The hacks were loading green wood and passing it off as seasoned. Prices hit rock-bottom and the market went to pot. It wasn't even worth the drive anymore.

Firewood sales around these parts is mostly retired and unemployed folks supplementing their incomes. Me, I cut and split for our own use. I'd have to be pretty darn hungry to do all that work to sell wood. There ain't no money in it.

 

[Cedarkerf]

Location location location. I lived in indiana for 3 years took a hickory down offerd to give the bucked rounds to neighbors who had wood stoves they said it was to much work it was straight 24 inches diameter. Took some oaks down for a horse stable couldnt give it away bucked it up burned them in a burn pile. Out here guys will fight over fi and alder. Just an observatio.

 

[zogger]

Location location location. I lived in indiana for 3 years took a hickory down offerd to give the bucked rounds to neighbors who had wood stoves they said it was to much work it was straight 24 inches diameter. Took some oaks down for a horse stable couldnt give it away bucked it up burned them in a burn pile. Out here guys will fight over fi and alder. Just an observatio.

It just goes along with conventional energy prices is all. This is a major election year, they will *try**** and keep gas/oil/diesel whatever cheaper, and all those influence propane and natgas to a certain degree. Cheap(er) conventional energy prices=not as much demand for wood. An oil crisis hits and other forms of energy take off, it's a seller's market then. Same with new cars, cheap oil, giant v8 rides are hot sellers, high pump prices, four and six bangers.

People also have short memories. A mild winter and they think that automagically means the next one will be mild. Uh huh.

***all bets and predictions off if syria/iran and so on get lit up. Saudis claim they can come up with the extra and I ain't believing it. Iran especially you got to believe got a few dozen choice heavy ones aimed right at major saudi production facilities because they hate them boys with a passion. and no, those "patriot" missiles ain't worth beans, all the major after action reports show they are more or less a waste of time. They ain't gonna be intercepting a couple thousand Iranian fast movers, a bunch gonna get through and everyone knows it. And ru7ssia and china keep saying "don't hit iran, don't do it, we're tellin ya...". They have said that dozens of times now.

Planetary wild cards can change your reality overnight.

Wouldn't hurt to have a huge stack of firewood in excess of what you need, "just in case", might be a useful local commodity to be sitting on.

 

[fearofpavement]

Having a market in my opinion is the most important factor. Here in central Georgia, a lot of people heat with wood or use it in their fireplace. I had wood for sale all last winter for $130 per full cord. I sold, um, ZERO. Had a sign in front of my house and ad on Craigslist and not one sale. This was split, seasoned hardwood. (mostly white and red oak) I burn wood to heat our own home (100% wood heated unless we're out of town) and I won't drive more than two miles to acquire wood. The only wood I sell is what is excess to my own needs. I have about a four year supply now. As Zogger stated, the numerous storms Georgia had have flooded the market with wood and it is all around for free if you cut it up and haul it. Thus the supply/demand situation kicked in.

I would not cut, split and dry wood for sale if it wasn't a byproduct of our mini-tree service. Pine gets piled up and burned. I offer it to an outdoor wood burner guy but he usually won't pick it up and only takes it if I deliver it. I refuse to do that anymore for free and just burn it as debris.

Wood chips are sorta in the same category. Those of you that sell wood to make money my hat's off to ya but I just don't see any profit in it at our prices here. By the time I pay the fuel and equipment costs I would be pretending to think I was actually able to make profit. However, I do like messing with wood so there is that ancillary benefit.