How long to wait on steady work?

[IcePick]

sheesh

Sounds like a lot of whining going on here. I work full time (year round) for an accredited company that did over a million in sales (still didn't pull much net worth in this year with all the expenditures and equipment purchased) and I do side work(all word of mouth, family, friends) when I can. However, I've sold a few thousand dollars of work for our company as well.

I aint rich but live comfortably and without a whole lot of stress (cept for this snow plowing sh@t!).

I find out if one knows a lot of people, network well and doesn't have the personality of a slug, one can do alright for themselves no matter what it is they're trying to do.

In my case, I'm putting forth 110% to the company I'm working for, and doing a little something for extra for me and my family on the side. I have a pickup, trailer, saws and climbing gear and don't use any of my company's equipment when doing my own small jobs.

 

[mckeetree]

get counseling mckeetree?

im sure you had someone helping you out or picking you up when you were down.

Yeah, counseling. You may need some. Especially some business counseling. As far as anybody ever helping me out or picking me up when I was down, what a laugh. You must be like those Aboriginals in Australia that go into that dream world sometimes.

 

[StewartTreeCare]

Yeah, counseling. You may need some. Especially some business counseling. As far as anybody ever helping me out or picking me up when I was down, what a laugh. You must be like those Aboriginals in Australia that go into that dream world sometimes.

o yeah im dreaming, i was adopted by an 80 yr. old couple, grew up poor, started everything i have now by myself with no one! i help people out as much as i can because i had no one to help me out. i dont need business counseling either, i talk to my customer, do the job to the best of my ability, and don't leave until my customer is satified. thats all there is to it. where does the counseling come in? this isnt even my thread and im not stealing it by fighting with you. Good luck OP i hope things get better for you. DONT GIVE UP!

 

[mckeetree]

o yeah im dreaming, i was adopted by an 80 yr. old couple, grew up poor, started everything i have now by myself with no one! i help people out as much as i can because i had no one to help me out. i dont need business counseling either, i talk to my customer, do the job to the best of my ability, and don't leave until my customer is satified. thats all there is to it. where does the counseling come in? this isnt even my thread and im not stealing it by fighting with you. Good luck OP i hope things get better for you. DONT GIVE UP!

You are the one who was singing the praises of door knocking earlier. You were encouraging people to go door to door like a bunch of Jehovah's Witnesses. You said that hogwash arborsmith posted about door knocking was the best post in this thread. That is why I decided you needed business counseling. By your standards we all need to put on those sandwich signs and stand around near the intersections. Or better yet an old piece of cardboard with "will do tree work for food." Man, that kind of crap is what is wrong with public perception of this industry today. You don't see electricians, plumbers, mechanics or other professional trades going door to door to beg for work but you do see tree service "professionals" doing it.

 

[StewartTreeCare]

You are the one who was singing the praises of door knocking earlier. You were encouraging people to go door to door like a bunch of Jehovah's Witnesses. You said that hogwash arborsmith posted about door knocking was the best post in this thread. That is why I decided you needed business counseling. By your standards we all need to put on those sandwich signs and stand around near the intersections. Or better yet an old piece of cardboard with "will do tree work for food." Man, that kind of crap is what is wrong with public perception of this industry today. You don't see electricians, plumbers, mechanics or other professional trades going door to door to beg for work but you do see tree service "professionals" doing it.

door to door, no! I would never disturb people that way, DIRECT MARKETING, meaning directly mailing flyers, postcards, anything to say hey "I am your local tree service and I want you to know who I am and what I can do to improve your landscape and safety." this thread is about someone contemplating about giving up what he loves to do. We as fellow climbers and arborists cant encourage him to do it. We need to encourage the people that have no idea what they are doing and are putting real arborists out of work to quit.

 

[TreeClimber57]

We need to encourage the people that have no idea what they are doing and are putting real arborists out of work to quit.

Good luck. Those are also the ones typically with lowest cost.
No education or training costs.
No certification or membership costs.
No insurance.
No WC, Taxes, etc..

Equals low cost work.. with which we can not compete.

But try to not get discouraged. Do what you can with what you have. Try to stay out of debt. Ensure you have all the proper licenses, insurance, etc. Do some good networking, marketing, etc..
Do an honest days work, and charge accordingly. Work will come.. at least it did for me. Having said that, we are in a crappy economy to be starting up.. but don't dispair there is still work out there for all of us.

 

[mckeetree]

this here is the best post i read on this thread! one day a week i have my guys hand out flyers and i get a lot of work that way. hand them a tree service flyer

??????????????????????????????

 

[tree MDS]

I hear you on the long drawn out fiasco part mckeetree. I beat myself up a good solid eight years with just a one ton and a 200+. I know that deal well. After a while it dawns on you that you could just get old and fade away at that gig. So I bought the tractor, picked up a trailer, then in a couple more years picked up the infamous bucket. Last year was a good year so I got the bigger newer chipper. All of that sucks to pay for, but I feel I was ready for each purchase...well as ready as I was ever gonna be anyway. But I guess my point is at some point you really do need to jump in and take some risk if you want to get anywhere (again, unless dad's rich or you deal drugs). Of course the repo mans been flying around town lately so knock on wood! lol.

 

[mckeetree]

door to door, no! I would never disturb people that way.

????????????????????????????????

 

[mckeetree]

I hear you on the long drawn out fiasco part mckeetree. I beat myself up a good solid eight years with just a one ton and a 200+. I know that deal well. After a while it dawns on you that you could just get old and fade away at that gig. So I bought the tractor, picked up a trailer, then in a couple more years picked up the infamous bucket. Last year was a good year so I got the bigger newer chipper. All of that sucks to pay for, but I feel I was ready for each purchase...well as ready as I was ever gonna be anyway. But I guess my point is at some point you really do need to jump in and take some risk if you want to get anywhere (again, unless dad's rich or you deal drugs). Of course the repo mans been flying around town lately so knock on wood! lol.

Good post.

 

[tree MDS]

Good post.

Thanks. I didnt mean to get in the middle of the kill for ya there.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

In my business life, I most often did not buy what I couldn't pay for, outright, and I amassed a net worth that others, with their huge debt load, can only dream of. If I had bucket trucks, chippers, stump grinders and spray rigs sitting in my yard...........

That's great, but you have to realize that will not work for most people in this business. Don't get folks to dreaming they can get anywhere in this business without any equipment. It worked for you but I would call that an isolated case. Real isolated. There is one guy on here now that is already getting that "what if you just get out there with nothing and do good work deal going." Well, maybe, but usually that works out to be a long drawn out fiasco. I am not saying debt is a good thing from every possible angle and I have seen slow times before but without my bucket trucks, chippers, stump grinders, and spray rig it would have been a real sad last 23 years.

I honestly don't know how isolated my case is. I say that with all due respect. I got into our business because I love the work and I love the learning involved. As I said earlier though, if I didn't own rental properties that make me as much as the trees do, I would not be able to stay in the trees. I own my house free and clear, and three more, ditto, and so I may be an isolated case insofar as I kept my eye on the prize when it came to investing wisely and paying off everything I bought in as short a time as possible.

If there is a lesson to be learned from my (isolated) case maybe it's this: If you are going into a profession (like tree work) that can be seen as already carrying too many businesses to the point of saturation, you are well-advised to have other income sources that can pay your bills because your chosen profession may not be able to do the same, at least for the short haul. Start small, pay cash for what you need to do the job correctly and professionally, and then feel your way along as you decide whether or not you see the potential to expand and make the kind of living that will allow you to live the life you are comfortable with. If you see that your income will not move you towards your goals, have the smarts to acknowledge that, and have the flexibility to move on to another field that will advance your desires to get ahead.

 

[StewartTreeCare]

??????????????????????????????

????????????? do you ####in see door to door anywhere in there?

 

[jefflovstrom]

Don't believe the hype in this thread about the mega-buck expenditures these guys supposedly make as far as it relates to the actual income they net after all of their bills are paid. Sure, you can go out and take on a bunch of debt and try to compete with the big guys in your city, sure. But you had better have a great legal department to handle the red tape you'll encounter going after municipal gigs, and you better employ, for big bucks, a former city/state/county big wig who can get you into the sweetheart contracts your competitors have sewn up, way ahead of you. There are big talkers in here who tell you about their huge investments in their businesses and their six figure salaries. What they don't tell you about is their bankruptcies and how they live on negative cash flow for the sake of appearances. Unless you are already independently wealthy and can actually take on the big names in this business, keep it fairly small and you will be OK if the economy actually does turn around. In my business life, I most often did not buy what I couldn't pay for, outright, and I amassed a net worth that others, with their huge debt load, can only dream of. I don't live large and I only owe taxes at year's end. When other tree companies, other than the big two, are working in town, I work. Right now things are pretty terrible, and if the economy doesn't turn around, they may stay that way. I do really enjoy tree work and I do a great job, but the realities of the opportunities to do it, or lack thereof, will ultimately dictate whether or not I'm still in the tree game six months from now. If I had bucket trucks, chippers, stump grinders and spray rigs sitting in my yard, business would be just as dead as it is now, but I would be over my head in debt. Think long and hard about that before you rush out to your bank to take on that new $100K loan.

FWIW, go ahead and knock on doors, hang flyers, place ads in the paper, yellow pages, etc. If the work is not there, it's not there. The guy who talked about marketing, as opposed to advertising, is simply practicing obfuscation, as advertising is, obviously, intimately associated with marketing. Again, in the end, you can market your company until you're blue in the face and your cash is gone. As I said, if the work is not there, it's not there.

So you assume that bankrupties and negative cash flow are the norm? Wrong, the work is there and that is the difference between advertising and marketing. There is plenty of work and plenty of optimism except with you. Dont paint with such a broad brush-
Jeff

 

[Sunrise Guy]

So you assume that bankrupties and negative cash flow are the norm? Wrong, the work is there and that is the difference between advertising and marketing. There is plenty of work and plenty of optimism except with you. Dont paint with such a broad brush-
Jeff

Ah, so you know things I don't. Good for you. Never mind that two of my best friends, both bankruptcy attorneys, tell me that their businesses are booming. You know better than they do. I suppose you have your finger on the pulse of our economy to a more thorough extent than I, as well. Again, good for you. I see the business climate of this country going deeper down the tube, and I see my old stock portfolio, which I ditched right before the crash, failing to get back up to the ditch-point, over the last eight months, or so. Please feel free to visit me in Austin. I'll put you up, no lie. You can then take me around my town, which you apparently know more about than I, and show me where all of the work is. PM me and we'll make arrangements. I look forward to having you stop by.

I also am looking forward to you teaching me the finer points of marketing vs. advertising. Apparently I was under the mistaken notion that advertising is an integral component of marketing.

 

[John464]

Sunrise,

we hear you on that staying small and not biting off more than you can chew. you can chew it if you are hungry and smart enough. that is fine if you are satified at just getting by and paying your bills. running a tree care company is a very tough business to operate. much easier things can be done and all the time, investment, and effort could be placed into a different field that would net you a six figure income by staying small. Not in tree care, staying small with the competition a tree care company faces today will not earn you that. There is too much difference in the way a small tree care company runs their operation vs a large one, but your biggest competition is the largest tree care company in your area. the one that gets the highest percentage of the avail jobs. like it or not they are your competition and it is up to you to put together an army of warriors to go into battle against them. by staying small you are bringing a knife to a sword fight.

if you are happy with just saving a little stay small, the only way to even have a shot at making a killing like we did 20yrs ago is to have the big equipment, big marketing budget and a team that can recieve and complete work at a rate that is far beyond what your competition can keep up with. VOLUME.

you say you have a girlfriend. do you have any kids? but arent making enough to support yourself without other investments right? point is there are those that have a big family, have more than one house, have some big toys in the garage and at the dock and did not get that lifestyle buy not taking some very high but calculated risk and became that top tree care company. I know not everyone wants the life of luxury, but why put up with such a hard business to run and a hard task to follow if you are not able to make a GREAT living. This is why tree care is going down the tubes, too many of you guys undervalue the risk you take being in this business. Just being comfortable is for the guy who just bangs a hammer into a board, or just plants some bushes or puts some wire nuts on a light. Dont you think we as operators have a lot more to worry about than a guy who has no machines to worry about daily and no threat of major damage to a customers home or employees who could die instantly with one false move? You as an operator are happy at taking a small piece of the pie for all that you place on the line? WHY?

 

[StewartTreeCare]

Sunrise,

we hear you on that staying small and not biting off more than you can chew. you can chew it if you are hungry and smart enough. that is fine if you are satified at just getting by and paying your bills. running a tree care company is a very tough business to operate. much easier things can be done and all the time, investment, and effort could be placed into a different field that would net you a six figure income by staying small. Not in tree care, staying small with the competition a tree care company faces today will not earn you that. There is too much difference in the way a small tree care company runs their operation vs a large one, but your biggest competition is the largest tree care company in your area. the one that gets the highest percentage of the avail jobs. like it or not they are your competition and it is up to you to put together an army of warriors to go into battle against them. by staying small you are bringing a knife to a sword fight.

if you are happy with just saving a little stay small, the only way to even have a shot at making a killing like we did 20yrs ago is to have the big equipment, big marketing budget and a team that can recieve and complete work at a rate that is far beyond what your competition can keep up with. VOLUME.

you say you have a girlfriend. do you have any kids? but arent making enough to support yourself without other investments right? point is there are those that have a big family, have more than one house, have some big toys in the garage and at the dock and did not get that lifestyle buy not taking some very high but calculated risk and became that top tree care company. I know not everyone wants the life of luxury, but why put up with such a hard business to run and a hard task to follow if you are not able to make a GREAT living. This is why tree care is going down the tubes, too many of you guys undervalue the risk you take being in this business. Just being comfortable is for the guy who just bangs a hammer into a board, or just plants some bushes or puts some wire nuts on a light. Dont you think we as operators have a lot more to worry about than a guy who has no machines to worry about daily and no threat of major damage to a customers home or employees who could die instantly with one false move? You as an operator are happy at taking a small piece of the pie for all that you place on the line? WHY?

i agree. i want to get as big as i possibly can. my goal wehn i started my business was to buy one piece of machinery a year. in my first year i pushed that and bought my truck, dump trailer, chipper, and all new climbing gear and rigging gear. in the spring my goal is to buy a split dump and a stump grinder by the end of summer. this was my first year in business and im stuck right now, no work but i can appreciate that because i cn spend time with my two children and my fiance'. when spring comes around i wish push the limit, go all out. i wanna be the biggest in my area.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Sunrise,

we hear you on that staying small and not biting off more than you can chew. you can chew it if you are hungry and smart enough. that is fine if you are satified at just getting by and paying your bills. running a tree care company is a very tough business to operate. much easier things can be done and all the time, investment, and effort could be placed into a different field that would net you a six figure income by staying small. Not in tree care, staying small with the competition a tree care company faces today will not earn you that. There is too much difference in the way a small tree care company runs their operation vs a large one, but your biggest competition is the largest tree care company in your area. the one that gets the highest percentage of the avail jobs. like it or not they are your competition and it is up to you to put together an army of warriors to go into battle against them. by staying small you are bringing a knife to a sword fight.

if you are happy with just saving a little stay small, the only way to even have a shot at making a killing like we did 20yrs ago is to have the big equipment, big marketing budget and a team that can recieve and complete work at a rate that is far beyond what your competition can keep up with. VOLUME.

you say you have a girlfriend. do you have any kids? but arent making enough to support yourself without other investments right? point is there are those that have a big family, have more than one house, have some big toys in the garage and at the dock and did not get that lifestyle buy not taking some very high but calculated risk and became that top tree care company. I know not everyone wants the life of luxury, but why put up with such a hard business to run and a hard task to follow if you are not able to make a GREAT living. This is why tree care is going down the tubes, too many of you guys undervalue the risk you take being in this business. Just being comfortable is for the guy who just bangs a hammer into a board, or just plants some bushes or puts some wire nuts on a light. Dont you think we as operators have a lot more to worry about than a guy who has no machines to worry about daily and no threat of major damage to a customers home or employees who could die instantly with one false move? You as an operator are happy at taking a small piece of the pie for all that you place on the line? WHY?

I don't know sunrise's situation so I won't speak for him but for me, personally, I could give a rat's ass about the big family's, big toy's, big houses, big boats and what not. I don't care. I only strive to be comfortable and earn a decent living. Why trees then? Why my own business then? Why the risk? Because I LOVE it. Every ####in' inch of it. There are parts of the job that aren't great ( poison ivy ), parts of doing business that suck ( paperwork ) , and parts of the risk that aren't a lot of fun ( when #### goes bad ), but when it comes down to it, I'll take the good with the bad because...basically...I'm DONE without it. Swing a hammer? lol, if I don't have my life on the line when slingin' tops and my nuts in a vice to meet a deadline giving me the motivation to push through and come out better for it...well, at the end of the day my beer won't taste as good. Tree work gives my life spice. Running my own business gives me freedom. Risk gives me a boner. It ain't all about the profit.

 

[mckeetree]

I don't know sunrise's situation so I won't speak for him but for me, personally, I could give a rat's ass about the big family's, big toy's, big houses, big boats and what not. I don't care. I only strive to be comfortable and earn a decent living. Why trees then? Why my own business then? Why the risk? Because I LOVE it. Every ####in' inch of it. There are parts of the job that aren't great ( poison ivy ), parts of doing business that suck ( paperwork ) , and parts of the risk that aren't a lot of fun ( when #### goes bad ), but when it comes down to it, I'll take the good with the bad because...basically...I'm DONE without it. Swing a hammer? lol, if I don't have my life on the line when slingin' tops and my nuts in a vice to meet a deadline giving me the motivation to push through and come out better for it...well, at the end of the day my beer won't taste as good. Tree work gives my life spice. Running my own business gives me freedom. Risk gives me a boner. It ain't all about the profit.

That has got to be about the most disturbing thing I have read here this month.

 

[ozzy42]

I don't know sunrise's situation so I won't speak for him but for me, personally, I could give a rat's ass about the big family's, big toy's, big houses, big boats and what not. I don't care. I only strive to be comfortable and earn a decent living. Why trees then? Why my own business then? Why the risk? Because I LOVE it. Every ####in' inch of it. There are parts of the job that aren't great ( poison ivy ), parts of doing business that suck ( paperwork ) , and parts of the risk that aren't a lot of fun ( when #### goes bad ), but when it comes down to it, I'll take the good with the bad because...basically...I'm DONE without it. Swing a hammer? lol, if I don't have my life on the line when slingin' tops and my nuts in a vice to meet a deadline giving me the motivation to push through and come out better for it...well, at the end of the day my beer won't taste as good. Tree work gives my life spice. Running my own business gives me freedom. Risk gives me a boner. It ain't all about the profit.

I don't find it disturbing at all.

Business is rough for me right now also ,but it's do this or go back to driving a truck OTR.

Iv'e seen enough of the country side.
I"d rather see my wife and kids