How not to treat your customers...

[arbor pro]

I don't have much time nor skill for doing my own mechanical work on large equipment. Tree work and my full-time job keep me busier than I'd like to be. I don't get to spend enough time with my family the way it is so, oil changes and regular maintenance is about all I take on. Nearly all of my equipment repairs go to the local mechanic.

Sadly, today I switched mechanics. I've never been so frustrated with a business owner in my life! And it's too bad because he was a pretty good mechanic.

Here are some applicable business tips for anyone (tree care, mechanic or whomever)who is aspiring to become a business owner:

1) Don't overpromise your services and overschedule your work! When you say, "I'll get to it this week", then get to it this week - not three weeks from now - not a month from now. If it's going to be a month, then be honest with the customer and tell him it's going to be a month. Dishonesty, in the long run, will lose you clients, not retain them. And guess what, those disgrunteled clients will tell a lot more friends about you when they're mad they they will when they're happy with your work!

2) When you start a job, FINISH IT! Nothing makes a customer hotter under the collar than having to repeatedly schedule work that should have been done the first time. If you're going to take on a job, then do it all and do it right. Don't inconvenience your customers because you didn't have the foresight to allow some 'open time' in your schedule to account for little things that come up during the week.

3) Don't get all pissy when a client calls to find out why he keeps getting bumped back on the schedule. If you don't want to do the job you promised, then, don't make promises you can't keep. Period.

Feel free to add to this suggestion list if you wish. These three things pretty much sum up my experience with my 'previous' mechanic. My 'new' mechanic says he'll start on the job tomorrow. We'll see how it goes before I tell the old mechanic off for good...

 

[gr8scott72]

CALL me and let me know if there are going to be delays!

CALL me and let me know when it is done. Don't let me call you and then hear you say "Oh yeah, I was just about to call you."

DON'T fix things I didn't bring it in for unless you are fixing them for free. Please tell me about them but don't fix unlessl I give you the ok.

STICK to your quoted price or better yet, let the final cost squeak in just under the quote and I will be your best advertising spokesperson

 

[lxt]

Thats why I do all my own repairs, yesterday was a 6am to 9pm, work then do some Maint.

Any time I go to a mechanic, its always a new excuse, bolt broke, wrong belt, didnt have this or that!! My question is you new what you needed before you tore it apart right?...........then how is this my problem?....stock what you need to do the work & do it in a timely fashion & without excuse.

I understand the unforeseen............dont wait 3-4 days to call me after you ponder how to fix it/bandage it up so I wont know, but then realize there is no way I wont find out......so now you call!!!

Im learning more & more its just better if you do it yourself, sometimes!!


LXT............

 

[arbor pro]

Im learning more & more its just better if you do it yourself, sometimes!!


LXT............

If I did my own repairs on top of working two jobs, I'd never get any tree work done or I'd never see my wife and kids. The first, is not an option - I'd much rather do tree work than mechanical work. As for the latter - I'm sure a few of you will tell me that's a very good thing.

I'll leave the repairs to the dagburn, no-good mechanics.

 

[treemandan]

CALL me and let me know if there are going to be delays!

CALL me and let me know when it is done. Don't let me call you and then hear you say "Oh yeah, I was just about to call you."

DON'T fix things I didn't bring it in for unless you are fixing them for free. Please tell me about them but don't fix unlessl I give you the ok.

STICK to your quoted price or better yet, let the final cost squeak in just under the quote and I will be your best advertising spokesperson

Both good thoughts and I know you practice the opposite of these examples whenever you can. Sometimes I get the feeling some business's run the " we are not responsible for dropping your ball" motto and are proud of it.
I had a job last summer that I could never get to. The guy gave me an ok at once but through the course of the summer I lost it for 3 mos, forgotten. I called the guy who said that the job was never done but he had someone else lined up. I felt horrible and apologized when I said goodbye. I drove by a few weeks later and the job was not done. I called him to tell him I would do it for free ( just a small 500 dollar job) as far as I know the job was never done. He said no thanks.
I think some companies expect to hide or shift faults and blame. I think they use it to thwart off liablity for which they have little.
Don't get me wrong, getting work done on cars and trucks can be confusing to some and its tough to get it right.

 

[arbor pro]

I think some companies expect to hide or shift faults and blame. I think they use it to thwart off liablity for which they have little.
Don't get me wrong, getting work done on cars and trucks can be confusing to some and its tough to get it right.

I don't see where the confusion is in scheduling a job, then delaying it 3 weeks without informing the customer, then only doing part of what was requested because your schedule is already backed up and you don't have the time to do all of the work requested. That's not confusion - that's simply not doing what you said you'd do in the timeframe you said you'd do it.

Confusion would be not knowing if something that was originally discussed was officially agreed to be done so it gets left undone. That's why I always PUT PROPOSALS IN WRITING. I wish all mechanics would give me a copy of what I've requested to have repaired when I request it. Some do, some don't. Tree care firms should do the same but I think some don't so they can make excuses later. If it's in writing, there's no confusion and no excuses - it's all right there in black and white. If you do business on a hand shake or verbal conversation, who knows what each party is writing down as a record of the agreement...? You heard "prune 3 trees with no cleanup" - the client heard "prune 5 trees with cleanup". You heard "$500 to prune plus $250 to clean up" - the client heard $500 including cleanup". Who's wright and who's wrong?

I don't always need my mechanic to put everything in writing. But, if he can't remember what the heck I asked him to do and get it all done by the date he promises to do it, he had better darn well hire an office manager who can put it all down on paper and schedule jobs for him. Sooner or later, this kind of poor business management loses customers.

Today's episode with my mechanic has been a profitable lesson. I will go home tonight and re-evaluate the tree jobs I currently have scheduled to make sure I can get them done as promised. If not, I will be making some phone calls to clients and kissing some butt. The last thing I want is for my clients to get as frustrated with me over a lack of consideration as I've gotten with my mechanic today.

 

[teamtree]

Thanks for the post. I am sitting here feeling guilty about 5 or 6 jobs that have been hanging open for a few months.

I am taking this as a reminder as to why I got into business. I should be brutally honest as to when I can get to something. I find myself taking care of my "better" customers and letting the so so stuff slide. I am reviewing my "to do" list and making calls to let them know the status and if it is necessary telling them to get someone else. I hate telling people I have a problem keeping help as that makes us look bad. If I tell them I am busy, then they don't want to bother me. I have to say it is one of my biggest failures or problems I have in this business.

Thanks for reminding me of what is important....customers.

 

[squad143]

I've received quite a bit of business from people who were less than pleased with the inaction of some other company. If you anticipate a delay in getting to a promised job (due to weather, mechanical breakdown, employment issues, etc.) call the customer and inform them. Chances are that they will wait for you. If you don't call.... well chances are, they'll find someone else.


Arbor Pro. I can understand your displeasure with your current Mechanic. If the new guy works out, great, however watch what bridges you burn, you never know if you may need this guy again.

 

[treemandan]

I don't see where the confusion is in scheduling a job, then delaying it 3 weeks without informing the customer, then only doing part of what was requested because your schedule is already backed up and you don't have the time to do all of the work requested. That's not confusion - that's simply not doing what you said you'd do in the timeframe you said you'd do it.

Confusion would be not knowing if something that was originally discussed was officially agreed to be done so it gets left undone. That's why I always PUT PROPOSALS IN WRITING. I wish all mechanics would give me a copy of what I've requested to have repaired when I request it. Some do, some don't. Tree care firms should do the same but I think some don't so they can make excuses later. If it's in writing, there's no confusion and no excuses - it's all right there in black and white. If you do business on a hand shake or verbal conversation, who knows what each party is writing down as a record of the agreement...? You heard "prune 3 trees with no cleanup" - the client heard "prune 5 trees with cleanup". You heard "$500 to prune plus $250 to clean up" - the client heard $500 including cleanup". Who's wright and who's wrong?

I don't always need my mechanic to put everything in writing. But, if he can't remember what the heck I asked him to do and get it all done by the date he promises to do it, he had better darn well hire an office manager who can put it all down on paper and schedule jobs for him. Sooner or later, this kind of poor business management loses customers.

Today's episode with my mechanic has been a profitable lesson. I will go home tonight and re-evaluate the tree jobs I currently have scheduled to make sure I can get them done as promised. If not, I will be making some phone calls to clients and kissing some butt. The last thing I want is for my clients to get as frustrated with me over a lack of consideration as I've gotten with my mechanic today.

YO BUDDY! Always get what you are having done in writing or at least be buddies with your mechanic( that's not so good). Cause Complaint Correction. The 3 c's to auotmotive repair for tree guy's who don't fix thier own stuff. Get it first. Then you have to account for all the other broken or worn out stuff he has to mess with to fix the part of your truck that now is bothering you. Sure he might brak something, suck,etc but you are going to have to find some measure of service to deal with.

I was a little vague so instead of using the word CONFUSING I should have used the words F'ed up.
It took me about 7 years to obtain Master Mech Cert, year 8 I was relieved to go back to trees. Fixin trucks ain't the nice business that tree work is, not even in the dealerships.
Now don't get me wrong again but alot of the F'ed up comes from people wanting it cheap, fast and good, most likely this is you. I mean who wants to spend? If it wasn't the case you would be at the dealer and we would not be having this conversation.
But Yes! It a tough call outside the dealer. First of all you have parts to consider. Right now to clear it up- any oem part sold by independant parts houses is not the same as a vehicles manufacturer's part. It some cases it might be better( upgraded) but direct oem replacements parts pale in comparison. I could make a list of crap parts not to buy at any chain store a mile long. So who uses these? Well independant shops do and that can make you suffer. He might be your friend who charges you but he still uses crap parts. Who else ? you use them.
Not to change the subject but parts play a big, well, part in getting your truck back to you. Think that there is the very part you need always sitting on the shelf? Do you think that just anybody can get it to you? Not to mention put it in your crappy truck. Not trying to be mean but its crappy. It stinks like gas, all oiley and dirty underthere, half of the bolts are rusted so bad you need to cut them out and the other half are now made of flimsy plastic,which it you touch wrong will break and double the job.
If you need your trucks taken care of you are in somewhat of a bind unless you have a the budget for it. Even then changing a light bulb is going to be like pulling teeth from time to time.
Just some insight and if you know me there is more but I have chosen to uphold good ethics when operating my little tree service. I am glad to see others concerned about looking good in these senerios of which you speak. I know I would not do so well if I ran a shop.

 

[arbor pro]

...alot of the F'ed up comes from people wanting it cheap, fast and good, most likely this is you. I mean who wants to spend? If it wasn't the case you would be at the dealer and we would not be having this conversation.

Dealerships, in my own experience, are the worst mechanics to go to. The guys I've dealt with at the local dealerships want to fix what's not broken just because a part shows the slightest bit of wear (calipers, belts, hoses), replace what could otherwise be repaired at a fraction of the cost (i.e. replace a mediocre factory tranny with another mediocre factory tranny vs rebuild the thing right with better parts) or tear your vehicle apart from one end to the other just to quote you a repair price, then stick it to you to put it back together if you don't have them do the work!

Private mechanics in my town are leaps and bounds better than the dealerships. Yes, maybe the dealerships can get you in sooner but, its likely because nobody else is dumb enough to take non-warranty work to them.

I'm perfectly fine with using privately-owned repair shops. But, I still won't excuse a person's poor business management skills. Bad customer service is a big no-no in any profession. Your customers will make or break your business. It doesn't matter how well you can turn a wrench or use a saw. If you don't know how to treat your customers with respect and consideration, you will soon be back to working for someone else who does know how to treat them. Customer service is basic business 101. It never ceases to amaze me how so many small business owners have such horid customer service skills and; yet, they wonder why they can't seem to make a go of it after a few years...

:monkey:

 

[arbor pro]

...I find myself taking care of my "better" customers and letting the so so stuff slide.

Thanks for reminding me of what is important....customers.

teamtree,

Whether you meant to or not, you hit the nail on the head. When you take care of "better" customers, how do you think you make your "not-better" customers feel when they are put off? I'm not asking this to make you feel bad - we all do it, likely without even realizing that we're doing it. But that's exactly how I feel tonight after the ordeal with my mechanic - like I am one of the "not-better" customers who this guy really couldn't care less about.

So, if he doesn't care about me, why should I care about him? And, why should I ever recommend his services to anyone again? Likewise, why should any client of my tree service company ever recommend my services to a friend or family member when I've treated them like a "not-better" customer?

Case in point - last saturday, I took down two trees and ground the stumps. I told the customer I'd get the stumps filled yet that evening so he paid me for the job. Unfortunately, it got late in the day and I didn't make it back with the dirt. The next day, we got a blizzard and everything was covered up with white stuff again. The snow is just now melting and I haven't yet filled the stumps because I'm waiting for things to dry out. Is my customer ok with this? Does he understand that I am still thinking about him and that I plan to return? I don't know what his thoughts are because I haven't called him to ask. I'm going to do that right now because I value my customers.

Just a general question for anyone following this thread - when's the last time you guys called your customers before they called you? Do you categorize your clients as "better" or "not-better" or are they all the same in importance?

I guess there have to be a few bad business people out there to help remind others how things ought to be done. The question for each and every one of us, I suppose is, are we the good examples or the bad ones...?

 

[treemandan]

Dealerships, in my own experience, are the worst mechanics to go to. The guys I've dealt with at the local dealerships want to fix what's not broken just because a part shows the slightest bit of wear (calipers, belts, hoses), replace what could otherwise be repaired at a fraction of the cost (i.e. replace a mediocre factory tranny with another mediocre factory tranny vs rebuild the thing right with better parts) or tear your vehicle apart from one end to the other just to quote you a repair price, then stick it to you to put it back together if you don't have them do the work!

Private mechanics in my town are leaps and bounds better than the dealerships. Yes, maybe the dealerships can get you in sooner but, its likely because nobody else is dumb enough to take non-warranty work to them.

I'm perfectly fine with using privately-owned repair shops. But, I still won't excuse a person's poor business management skills. Bad customer service is a big no-no in any profession. Your customers will make or break your business. It doesn't matter how well you can turn a wrench or use a saw. If you don't know how to treat your customers with respect and consideration, you will soon be back to working for someone else who does know how to treat them. Customer service is basic business 101. It never ceases to amaze me how so many small business owners have such horid customer service skills and; yet, they wonder why they can't seem to make a go of it after a few years...

:monkey:

It just shows how much you really need to know about your vehicle before you let and pay someone else to work on it.
Doing warranty work at the dealer paid less than what customers did paying cash. BUT all work done was to the point of perfection. If they had made a mistake you could catch they would have paid for it no problem.Part and labor AND a rental along with those slightly worn caliper pins which aare very important and with slight wear do not work properly being built with extreme and close tolerances. Sure they will sell you anybody would. 700 for a front brake job? Yeah! The caliper pins were stuck and the pads wouldn't let off, it heated up the rotor and warped the piss out of it. Now you don't want to send that boiled brake fluid back up to the master cylinder when you push it back so you have to try to open a frozen bleeder screw and now you are up to 750.
My point is that there is a lot to it. Get educated . I still use outside shops for my saws and some mechanical and insp. Most things I do because I want to know exactly why it cost 500 and why it still don't work. Sometimes it turns out that its not me.

 

[treemandan]

Oh yeah. If you had brought me something that was making a noise that disasmbly was required, well that's that, unless you tell me what it is. Very common to have to take stuff apart to find out what the problem is.Who is going to pay me for my time any skill?

 

[treemandan]

Thats why I do all my own repairs, yesterday was a 6am to 9pm, work then do some Maint.

Any time I go to a mechanic, its always a new excuse, bolt broke, wrong belt, didnt have this or that!! My question is you new what you needed before you tore it apart right?...........then how is this my problem?....stock what you need to do the work & do it in a timely fashion & without excuse.

I understand the unforeseen............dont wait 3-4 days to call me after you ponder how to fix it/bandage it up so I wont know, but then realize there is no way I wont find out......so now you call!!!

Im learning more & more its just better if you do it yourself, sometimes!!


LXT............

I just would like to know what it is like for you when you work on you stuff. For me it is usually- bolt broke- wrong belt- can't get that til tuesday.

 

[gr8scott72]

I just would like to know what it is like for you when you work on you stuff. For me it is usually- bolt broke- wrong belt- can't get that til tuesday.

So why can't so many shops just pick up the phone and TELL the customer what the delay is instead of waiting until the time when the customer was supposed to show up and THEN finding out they couldn't get the part?

I deal with this everyday. I'm a manager at a used car lot. We stock 50 - 60 cars and there are plenty of them that need fixing when we get them and as they sit there before they sell.

The shops I like dealing with and continue to spend my money at are the ones that can do the simple things that I listed in the second post on this thread.

 

[arbor pro]

It just shows how much you really need to know about your vehicle before you let and pay someone else to work on it.
Doing warranty work at the dealer paid less than what customers did paying cash. BUT all work done was to the point of perfection. If they had made a mistake you could catch they would have paid for it no problem.Part and labor AND a rental along with those slightly worn caliper pins which aare very important and with slight wear do not work properly being built with extreme and close tolerances. Sure they will sell you anybody would. 700 for a front brake job? Yeah! The caliper pins were stuck and the pads wouldn't let off, it heated up the rotor and warped the piss out of it. Now you don't want to send that boiled brake fluid back up to the master cylinder when you push it back so you have to try to open a frozen bleeder screw and now you are up to 750.
My point is that there is a lot to it. Get educated . I still use outside shops for my saws and some mechanical and insp. Most things I do because I want to know exactly why it cost 500 and why it still don't work. Sometimes it turns out that its not me.

If a dealership or nationwide chain shop tells me I need $2000 worth of front end work done and two reputable private repair shops tell me I really only need about $400 in repairs, why would I want to pay two grand to the dealership or chain shop? The private shops showed me the parts the dealership wanted to replace - there was nothing wrong with them. The dealership just wanted to put the screw to me because they didn't think I'd tell them 'no' and take the truck elsewhere.

Why should I have to get educated about cars and equipment if I'm expecting the repair shop to act in my best interest? Should I, as a tree care company feel free to put the screw to my customers just because they don't know the biology of the trees or shrubs I'm working on or how much it should cost to work on them? Just because they don't know that tree wound paint doesn't really do anything for a tree (in most cases), is it ethical and ok for me to charge them $100 to paint the wounds of their maple tree even though I know the tree doesn't really need to have the wounds painted? If I'm acting in the client's best interest, shouldn't I be held to some code of ethics that requires me to advise them against doing unnecessary or harmful practices?

What I'm harping about here, treemandan, is ethics - something any reputable businessman should hold dearly if he really gives two cents about what he does. I'm not ISA certified but, I am certified by my state's Arborist Association. I believe there is something within the by-laws of these organizations about ethics that we, as tree care providers, need to understand and believe in. Anyone businessman who doesn't act in the best interest of his clients, whether an insurance salesman, an investment broker, a mechanic or an arborist, is just another hack in my book and giving a bad name to the profession he so 'proudly' boasts to serve.

 

[treemandan]

If a dealership or nationwide chain shop tells me I need $2000 worth of front end work done and two reputable private repair shops tell me I really only need about $400 in repairs, why would I want to pay two grand to the dealership or chain shop? The private shops showed me the parts the dealership wanted to replace - there was nothing wrong with them. The dealership just wanted to put the screw to me because they didn't think I'd tell them 'no' and take the truck elsewhere.

Why should I have to get educated about cars and equipment if I'm expecting the repair shop to act in my best interest? Should I, as a tree care company feel free to put the screw to my customers just because they don't know the biology of the trees or shrubs I'm working on or how much it should cost to work on them? Just because they don't know that tree wound paint doesn't really do anything for a tree (in most cases), is it ethical and ok for me to charge them $100 to paint the wounds of their maple tree even though I know the tree doesn't really need to have the wounds painted?

What I'm harping about here, treemandan, is ethics. Ethics and customer service - two things that any reputable business should hold dearly if they really give two cents about what they do. Anyone else who doesn't act in the best interest of his clients, whether an insurance salesman, an investment broker, a mechanic or an arborist, is just another hack in my book and giving a bad name to the profession he so proudly boasts to serve...

See? you are getting an education allready, good for you. I wasn't try to upspeak a dealer or anybody. I am with you on the ethics. Don't be surprised when your new mechanic dissapoints you, be surprised if he never does.

 

[arbor pro]

Don't be surprised when your new mechanic dissapoints you, be surprised if he never does.

Isn't it a sad, pescimistic world we live in if we are supposed to be surprised when we get good service rather than poor? Whatever happened to integrity and trust...?

 

[techdave]

Hi guys, i think you are talking about two different things.

TMD is talking about situations where the customer may not be able to evaluate the difference between better and poorer repairs, or repairs where extra stuff breaks going in to get at the repair or wont come apart, or wher the problem is intermittent and wont show up for the tech.

Pro is talking about situations Lik: Shops or individuals that OVERsell add ons that might be needed on some vehicles, but not the one they are OVERselling on. Or guys who dont know what they are doing and then charge for shotgunning abunch of guessed at parts at a problem. Or who dont call on a timely basis with a re-estimate and reason when additional stuff is encountered or discovered during a repair.

As for the parts thing, if you guys who are not in repair had to use different saws for each species, cultivar, and size of tree you work on you would get an education of how those of us in the repair business feel about the proliferation of parts and how hard it can be to have what is needed at hand during the repair process!

A total non sequitar, most of the mower shops I have knwon were/are ethical. BUT the few bad ones were real bad. I once quit a PT 2nd job that paid as much per hour as my first and came with free beer (_utt-wiper and Mic and King Cobra). Reason? Working owner oversold sharpening and points and condensor changes. Not badly, close enough it could have been a difference of opinion, but it did not sit well w/me a tthe time. His competition ws MUCH worse.

Automotve Technology is tough to master, take the Wells newsletter and see just hwo tough it can be!

 

[arbor pro]

Should I be apologizing or should he?

So, while my truck sits in the new mechanic's shop today, I had a chat with my previous mechanic about why I took my truck elsewhere. I had to call him because I didn't want him ordering parts for a truck he wouldn't be working on. As it turns out, he happened to drive by the other shop and saw my truck sitting there so, he figured it out without me telling him.

He gave me plenty of excuses for why he sometimes takes so long to get to my work (sick employees, small jobs turning into big ones, working from sunup to sundown and still can't keep up, yada yada yada) and a big long guilt trip about how he's always bent over backwards to try to help me out.

I, meanwhile, apologized profusely for taking my work elsewhere making sure to thank him for past work and implying that I would like to bring my work to him again in the future - it's just that, this time, I couldn't afford to wait 3 weeks for him to 'get around to it' like last time.

Never once during our conversation did he offer an apology for not keeping me informed as to why the truck wasn't yet done. Never once did he apologize for not fixing everything I asked him to the last time. Never once did he apologize for being downright rude when I asked him to reschedule the work a second time. All I got from him was excuses and a guilt trip.

When I first hung up the phone, I felt bad about the conversation - like I had broken an agreement with him - him to do my work, me to give him business. But now, I'm puting things into perspective and trying to ask myself how I would have handled the situation if it were one of my tree care customers displeased with my business management.

If I constantly delayed doing a job (for any reason) without notifying the customer of the reason for my delays, should I have the right to be upset or make the client feel guilty for taking his business elsewhere? Shouldn't I, the business owner, be the one apologizing up and down and begging for the client's forgiveness for dropping the ball and not communicating why I was having problems getting the work done?

I always try to look at things in a different perspective before making judgement. In this case, I think the mechanic really blew it when he got a chance to smooth things out with an unhappy customer. I'm just curious, how many of you are 'butt-kissers' when it comes to pleasing your clientel and how many of you expect your clients to kiss your butts...?