How to stop new growth around stumps

[Bill G]

Here is a picture of a small tree sprayed with Glyphosate in about May. The picture was taken Tuesday night.

 

[Bill G]

Here is a cut stump with Tordon (picloram) applied after cutting last winter.

 

[Bill G]

I will allow the pictures to tell the story. I have tons more.

 

[Bill G]

I've had great luck with grinding the stump out and below ground. No growback

Well there is no doubt that grinding will work but that is not a real viable option when you are cutting more than a thousand trees over a winter/early spring. Also tough to get a grinder in a 60% slope ravine.

 

[ATpro]

If so how much 24D

For a basal spray we added to the mix about 6 to 8 oz per gallon of mix in the water. Spec for 2.4-d Amine calls for 1 pint of 2,4-D with 3 gallons of diesel, half a pint of Silvex, but we used water instead of diesel. 2,4-D mix by itself isn't as effective on cut stumps much larger than 6" to 8" but added to the tordon mix it helps to provide ground saturation to control sprouting.

This was a hot mix, but effective.

 

[Bill G]

For a basal spray we added to the mix about 6 to 8 oz per gallon of mix in the water. Spec for 2.4-d Amine calls for 1 pint of 2,4-D with 3 gallons of diesel, half a pint of Silvex, but we used water instead of diesel. 2,4-D mix by itself isn't as effective on cut stumps much larger than 6" to 8" but added to the tordon mix it helps to provide ground saturation to control sprouting.

This was a hot mix, but effective.

Thank you for the info. For many years I have always just used Tordon RTU as I could get it dirt cheap but now that price has went through the roof I started investigating the 22K -(2-4-D) and diesel mix. I could never find a source of information that I trusted and there was no way I was going to risk a failure so I finished the season with RTU. Now as I get close to the start of a new cutting season I need to get serious about finding a tank mix that works. I have never been a big believer in diesel in a cut stump treatment or in cold weather. It might make sense in hot weather for foliar application but not in a Illinois winter on stumps.

Where are you getting your 22K? I tried this site last winter
https://www.forestrydistributing.com/tordon-22k-specialty-herbicide-cortevaI get a chuckle out of the fact the price is higher per gallon in a 30 gallon drum than 5 gallon packs of two 2.5 gallon jugs

 

[CDElliott]

I use Tordon RTU also. I keep a small spray bottle of it on the ATV and spray it just on the outer cambium and it's one and done! The hand sprayer is convenient and allows for economical use of the product. Tordon RTU works well and a bottle lasts me a long time!

 

[Hickahollar]

Well most of the time I try to cut my hard woods in the winter and early spring just so that they have a better chance to grow back. It's called copicing (maybe spelled wrong). I copice soo i can have a steady supply of firewood on my small acreage. Age of tree has a lot to do with it young trees will copice better than old one's that said I have seen 150 year old trees copice 1 or 2 branches but most die. Cut in summer and 90 percent of the time the tree dies. Mid fall they probably won't have enough food storage in their roots to survive fall and all winter, But they could. In my yard I cut down some Chinese bush tree thing that just kept coming back from the stump the roots all over the yard. I mixed a half gallon of vinegar with about an 1/8th cup of salt. And it killed it too never come back. The vinegar kills the green stuff and the salt gets taken up into the roots and dries the root out like gylophosate.

 

[capetrees]

I think it’s a mistake to cut in spring. Now that I did it . New growth comes up from everything I’ve cut in the past stumps in multiple.
what can I do to stop it . Been going for two years or more .

Well there is no doubt that grinding will work but that is not a real viable option when you are cutting more than a thousand trees over a winter/early spring. Also tough to get a grinder in a 60% slope ravine.

The OP didn't mention a thousand trees on 60% slopes.

 

[Bill G]

The OP didn't mention a thousand trees on 60% slopes.

No not all. I was simply saying that as many folks face many different situations.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

What he said!

Since Roundup works, the Tordon part sounds feasible. Both herbicides can work.

The names of the products noted in replies above are amusing. It would be fun to have a job thinking of names to give to chemical herbicide products.

For control around fence posts on farms, maybe something called "POLE DANCE"

For growth regulation or apex control, maybe "TERMINATOR"

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Since you are in the PNW with a different growing season how did those plants look like 90 days 120 days, 240 days and 360 days later after a single application? Are your no-till farmers using a single application for lifetime control? If so that is great as one application to a perennial is lifetime control with no more control needed. Then no one would ever need to buy Glyphosate again for perennial. . So on woody stem and basal bark applications no one uses the most effective treatments of Picloram or Triclopyr ? The poster asked about killing a woody stem from a cut stump and Glyphosate is ineffective at that task. You can believe what you want but real life experience by millions is hard to refute. I guess you want to believe it I am not going to argue with you. I just want to help the poster find an effective method of permanently solving the issue and not a "band-aid" for a few months or a year. In 30 years of using Picloram I have never had to treat a stump twice and no one that I have ever talked with has either. You can believe what you choose. If you do not believe me then go do the experiment I suggested. It will be quicker in your growing season. I am very interested in the findings.

Bill

There is no 90 to 360 days. For time yes, for growth no.

Most often when I used it, they were brown and withered in a few weeks, never to be seen again.

Assuming it's done right, and not to plants coated with heavy dust layers or that have been unusually drought stressed.

I particularly liked what happened to blackberry sprayed in September with Roundup. One yard had a 1/2 acre. I hedge sheared a few paths for a grid, then sprayed. Came back the following April with a broom stick size pole and swung it shattering the vines like broken glass. It's remarkable how tough green blackberry canes are, but how brittle they become. And in that case, the same roots did not grow, except some new seed germination which needed hoe or followup spray with something like Crossbow since it was months before autumn.

 

[Bill G]

Since Roundup works, the Tordon part sounds feasible. Both herbicides can work.

The names of the products noted in replies above are amusing. It would be fun to have a job thinking of names to give to chemical herbicide products.

For control around fence posts on farms, maybe something called "POLE DANCE"
Ghere
For growth regulation or apex control, maybe "TERMINATOR"

Well there used to be a growth regulator named "Limit". There is now one called "Cutless".

 

[Bill G]

There is no 90 to 360 days. For time yes, for growth no.

Most often when I used it, they were brown and withered in a few weeks, never to be seen again.

Assuming it's done right, and not to plants coated with heavy dust layers or that have been unusually drought stressed.

I particularly liked what happened to blackberry sprayed in September with Roundup. One yard had a 1/2 acre. I hedge sheared a few paths for a grid, then sprayed. Came back the following April with a broom stick size pole and swung it shattering the vines like broken glass. It's remarkable how tough green blackberry canes are, but how brittle they become. And in that case, the same roots did not grow, except some new seed germination which needed hoe or followup spray with something like Crossbow since it was months before autumn.

I do not know what you mean there is no 90 to 360 days. What have trees looked liked 1 year after spraying them with Glyphosate? Yes blackberry bushes are woody stem perennials but are very easy to kill even with low dosage 2-4-D. I can post some pics of those. Did you look at the pics I posted? It really does not matter though. What works for you works for you.

 

[ATpro]

Where are you getting your 22K?

Am retired now and haven't bought any in years. Most of the forestry services we worked through had certification's and they did bulk buying. As a contractor we could work through their Lic's and certification's. Keeping up with certification requirements for recertification every few years was a pain in the butt, that is why we chose to use forestry services that were available to work through.

Many of the contracts we serviced were for clients that were getting government assistants with detailed specifications and the work had to be approved along the way. Most of the time the forestry service we worked through handled the paperwork and we did the fieldwork.

Most of the time with these government assistants programs we had a project budget to work within and the more economical we could make it, the better for the client, Often the client could come out with a "0" factor cost and sometimes a little pocket change.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

It really does not matter though. What works for you works for you.

Your post reminded me of something when you say "what works for you".

It should be clear from my several replies above that Roundup is successful for me, and it should be for plants of small or large size since it's a translocating herbicide.

One thing I did not mention, was that I often apply at reduced rates of 50% to 75% strength.

In college our pesticides instructor told us that a slow kill is often a better kill. It means that a plant or tree can live longer to translocate the herbicide into its roots more completely before croaking. So about 80% of the time, I apply at reduce concentration.

 

[Bill G]

Your post reminded me of something when you say "what works for you".

It should be clear from my several replies above that Roundup is successful for me, and it should be for plants of small or large size since it's a translocating herbicide.

One thing I did not mention, was that I often apply at reduced rates of 50% to 75% strength.

In college our pesticides instructor told us that a slow kill is often a better kill. It means that a plant or tree can live longer to translocate the herbicide into its roots more completely before croaking. So about 80% of the time, I apply at reduce concentration.

What concentration level of 41% Glyphosate are you using to kill trees? Is that basal bark, cut stump, or foliar. I assume you alter for each method. What is you concentration level for each method. It is easiest to specify in ounces per gallon as that is the way it would be applied to trees since it would be a site specific spot spray treatment. If you are applying on a per acre basis what is your gallon per acre and ounce per acre. If you calculate by AI that is fine and you should be able to do the math for those reading the thread that do not work with it. If not I will help you so folks can be informed.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

What concentration level of 41% Glyphosate are you using to kill trees? Is that basal bark, cut stump, or foliar. I assume you alter for each method. What is you concentration level for each method. It is easiest to specify in ounces per gallon as that is the way it would be applied to trees since it would be a site specific spot spray treatment. If you are applying on a per acre basis what is your gallon per acre and ounce per acre. If you calculate by AI that is fine and you should be able to do the math for those reading the thread that do not work with it. If not I will help you so folks can be informed.

My previous replies should connote that I spray foliar. Whatever the concentration is, I reduce it to 50% or 75% but definitely not 100%.

I do the same thing for "weeds" in lawns too, including Dandelion. Before my college pesticide classes in the 1980s I'd apply full strength spray to old established dandelion and see quite a few sprout new plants or ever rosettes from the same root. Afterward I applied reduced so it could grow and translocate the triple herbicide lawn weed solution deeper into the root system. Then there were no new plants. Just little holes in the ground where the center roots decayed.

But that's why I do the same for any size plant or small trees I decided to spray.

 

[ATpro]

My previous replies should connote that I spray foliar. Whatever the concentration is, I reduce it to 50% or 75% but definitely not 100%

Well you're spraying a hot spray not a not a reduced rate. Even a reduced concentration of 75% would be way over specifications. Concentration of 4oz per gallon of 41% Glyphosate are required for woody plants which is only 3.0% of chemical per gallon. For a slow kill on weeds we use 2oz per gallon which takes longer to kill but will work. We even spray overgrown pasture at a fast rate of travel with spray bar equipment on a UTV at 2oz per gallon to knock down growth but not kill the pasture. One warning, never spray Glyphosate around bee hives or on a field where the hive is. Bees will pack up and move. If you want bees to move from an old barn or house spray Glyphosate around and they will leave without you having to kill them, bees hate the stuff.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Well you're spraying a hot spray not a not a reduced rate. Even a reduced concentration of 75% would be way over specifications. Concentration of 4oz per gallon of 41% Glyphosate are required for woody plants which is only 3.0% of chemical per gallon. For a slow kill on weeds we use 2oz per gallon which takes longer to kill but will work. We even spray overgrown pasture at a fast rate of travel with spray bar equipment on a UTV at 2oz per gallon to knock down growth but not kill the pasture. One warning, never spray Glyphosate around bee hives or on a field where the hive is. Bees will pack up and move. If you want bees to move from an old barn or house spray Glyphosate around and they will leave without you having to kill them, bees hate the stuff.

Not really.

For example, a 4 Pound Casoron is not a "HOT" application compared to a 2 G (pound) casoron, because the directions compensate. Typically, 1/2 of a 4G will end up on the ground than when using the 2G. Same principle often applies to liquids like Roundup. Higher concentration formula directions call for less ounces.

So Roundup has different concentrations, but the directions compensate. When I say I'm applying at reduce rates or concentrations, that's what's happening. If there's a super concentrate, the directions should be calling for less oz. per gallon. But in addition, I cut that amount again.

Where you missed the mark about my posts, seems to be confusing concentration ("hotter") with the final result (amount released). However I happen to phrase it, the amount of active ingredient applied to foliage is less than the maximum so I can get a slower kill.

No need to complicate the simplicity of that. Whatever the bottle says to apply, I apply less.