IcePick
ArboristSite Operative
Well, a GRCS is load rated for tree work, wouldn't a "tugger" get ripped to shreds, I imagine, lowering a 500 lb log?
How to train groundies for using a Port-a-wrap?
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Well, a GRCS is load rated for tree work, wouldn't a "tugger" get ripped to shreds, I imagine, lowering a 500 lb log?
Sparky8370
ArboristSite Operative
That little one I showed you is rated for 4000lbs. We use these and pull over 100, at times, of 500mcm copper x 4 wires plus ground. 500mcm is about 1" diameter. Sucks when pulling by hand. Sometimes we even use a wire feeder, which is basically two tires that pinch the wire and rotate to feed it.
On edit: But yes you are right, not rated for the work. I would love to try it though. Wish I had 7 grand to get a good tugger. If I ever do, I'll have my cousins try it on some trees.
lumberjack333
ArboristSite Operative
A tuggers made for tugging wire through conduit at a steady rate.. I don't know how well it would take to shock loading some of the bigger wood that tends to fly around on tree jobs. And if I was pulling a tree over, I'd want something anchored into a closed system with not chance of it slipping backwards or off the cap. I would sooner tie it to my truck and throw some redirects in the mix than anchor a tugger to... something and fumble with wraps on a cap.
Put it this way, if that thing slips while pulling wire, the wire stops. It doesn't go flying out the back end of the conduit and crush poor Billy who though he was standing in a relatively safe spot.
Put it this way, if that thing slips while pulling wire, the wire stops. It doesn't go flying out the back end of the conduit and crush poor Billy who though he was standing in a relatively safe spot.
EdenT
ArboristSite Operative
This is a tricky thing for ground people to learn if they have never seen it done. They always think they have to stop the wood falling.
I would rig a log with a sling and pulley to the branch of a tree. To add reality put in another pulley higher and belay the log a little higher and off the center of the fall to the lowering rope. Drop the belay rope to indicate the section has been cut. Explain to them the shock part. Because you are on the ground during this practice run you can show them exactly what you are trying to achieve. When they are getting confident increase the size of the log.
I would rig a log with a sling and pulley to the branch of a tree. To add reality put in another pulley higher and belay the log a little higher and off the center of the fall to the lowering rope. Drop the belay rope to indicate the section has been cut. Explain to them the shock part. Because you are on the ground during this practice run you can show them exactly what you are trying to achieve. When they are getting confident increase the size of the log.
ROOTSXROCKS
Addicted to ArboristSite
I learned using a friction cat head like this, when I was 14.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
I rig from the tree many times as well until the big big stuff but of course that is what the groundy's don't get right lol. We need a bungy sling lol, a highly rated shock absorbing sling.There is another million dollar idea for someone to make.
Perhaps I was vague when I posted my question. My concern is not how to run a port-a-wrap. I got that part figured out nicely, thank you. I'm a pretty bright fellow, and I think my problem may be that I don't communicate too well with my employees, some of which may not hear (or understand) so well. (I was obliged by my innate good manners from being more abusive when referring to their talents)
You can explain until you are blue in the face how to do something, and you can train for an unpredictable amount of time until somebody finally figures it out. My goal is to minimize the amount of time lost in training, and to maximize the training benefit.
It is obvious that learning the amount of wraps can only come with experience with many drops of many different conditions. My issue is with the actual technique of squeezing off stopping the load gently, rather than with a yank. I have experimented with more wraps and less hand pressure required, and fewer wraps and risking rope burns, and I have not concluded that either method leads to more predictable "runs". So far, everybody still stops it with a yank.
I am considering trying to train them to give it friction only until after it slams back into the trunk, then apply the full brakes. Comments?
After we get that figured out, then we need to get them trained in the complex art of dropping the log at the apogee of the swing to miss the stuff below...
You can explain until you are blue in the face how to do something, and you can train for an unpredictable amount of time until somebody finally figures it out. My goal is to minimize the amount of time lost in training, and to maximize the training benefit.
It is obvious that learning the amount of wraps can only come with experience with many drops of many different conditions. My issue is with the actual technique of squeezing off stopping the load gently, rather than with a yank. I have experimented with more wraps and less hand pressure required, and fewer wraps and risking rope burns, and I have not concluded that either method leads to more predictable "runs". So far, everybody still stops it with a yank.
I am considering trying to train them to give it friction only until after it slams back into the trunk, then apply the full brakes. Comments?
After we get that figured out, then we need to get them trained in the complex art of dropping the log at the apogee of the swing to miss the stuff below...
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I pull real tight, then sort of help the rope lunge forward into the porty just as the hinge starts to break, then stop it accordingly. Its too late after it hits the trunk. Works for me anyway.
Or maybe I mean a little after the hinge starts to break...but before the rope sees full tention.
This sort of reminds me of trying to explain to someone how to run my backhoe.
I am trying to help though. really.
ROOTSXROCKS
Addicted to ArboristSite
hey you know what I was saying about the brakes and finesse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-B5yyXF2WU
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-B5yyXF2WU
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lumberjack333
ArboristSite Operative
Ahahaha, I can't imagine what the steam musta smelled like!
I think I'll play that video next time we go out with the port-a-wrap.
That really does explain the problem pretty well. How did you find that one?
That really does explain the problem pretty well. How did you find that one?
I wish I could rep you that video was priceless
ROOTSXROCKS
Addicted to ArboristSite
LOL, well I spend endless hours day and night, looking for means to entertain.
and thats what I do it for, thanks for the thought.
and on that note, heres a another lesson. in finesse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njN8byEUB2w
of course sometimes no matter how agile Physics just mucks it up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO9uWBA0CsY
BTW: here is drunken farmer Bob with the pig slop video and a really good view of the interior of the truck while it happened:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qfX6xdoPbM&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qfX6xdoPbM&NR=1
lego1970
ArboristSite Guru
I'm used to taking wraps around a tree. I've only used the port a wrap twice and probably because it's new to me, I hated it, however with most things the more exposure I'm given the more my understanding and confidence grows. For me the "seven times" training rule seems to work best. I try to use that when reading about a subject like Chemistry, or Biology where I can't even pronounce the words let alone know what they mean or when trying to perform a task. Those "seven times" give or take a few, don't have to be seven occasions divided into days or weeks, but should be broken up so there is a little time inbetween exposure for the person to absorb what they have seen and tried. First use on a smaller less difficult tree or branches with a large swing and drop zone. Example of "seven or whatever times",
before everybody leaves the day before useing the port a wrap pass out a picture of what one looks like to each member of the crew that has not used it (yes they will throw it away shortly after looking at) (shown 1)
,at the start of the day before going to the job site (shown 2) then each person talks it thru (try 1),
at the job site with the port a wrap hooked around a tree or in a truck hitch(shown 3) then again each person talks it thru (try 2),
on the first few cuts the climber tells the groundsman how many wraps and either sets the slack or tells the groundmen how far to let it fall (shown 4) (try3), etc, etc, end of day.
Next time out do it again, picture, before going out, at the jobsite, during the job.
By the second job useing the port a wrap there should be plenty more then 7 exposures/trials and the groundsman should be able to make judgement on his own.
From an economic standpoint I don't know what that type of training would cost but most of the exposure/trial would be given during regular hours anyway so it shouldn't eat into the man/hours or slow the process down to much. I think a lot depends on how dedicated your employees are to growing and learning new things. Good luck and the above is just what I've kinda done for myself when trying to learn new things.
before everybody leaves the day before useing the port a wrap pass out a picture of what one looks like to each member of the crew that has not used it (yes they will throw it away shortly after looking at) (shown 1)
,at the start of the day before going to the job site (shown 2) then each person talks it thru (try 1),
at the job site with the port a wrap hooked around a tree or in a truck hitch(shown 3) then again each person talks it thru (try 2),
on the first few cuts the climber tells the groundsman how many wraps and either sets the slack or tells the groundmen how far to let it fall (shown 4) (try3), etc, etc, end of day.
Next time out do it again, picture, before going out, at the jobsite, during the job.
By the second job useing the port a wrap there should be plenty more then 7 exposures/trials and the groundsman should be able to make judgement on his own.
From an economic standpoint I don't know what that type of training would cost but most of the exposure/trial would be given during regular hours anyway so it shouldn't eat into the man/hours or slow the process down to much. I think a lot depends on how dedicated your employees are to growing and learning new things. Good luck and the above is just what I've kinda done for myself when trying to learn new things.
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outofmytree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Good plan.
irish93stang
ArboristSite Member
maybe chunk out an 8 foot section on a butt log your workin on.. let it hang dead stop tied off to the port a wrap then show them how to let it run while you are on the ground with them. or start with a throwball to show them how the rope with weight on the end will swing.. kinda on a smaller scale.. then show them what rope burn looks like when your fingers look like wax
yeah if you want to get your azz handed to you when that 8 footer shocks the #### out of you then go ahead. you could kill to birds with one stone, teaching the groundie how to get punched in the mouth and how to let it run after your on the ground.
