Huztl/Garden Tools China Replacement Piston and Cylinder Kit, PICS!

[jockeydeuce]

I finally went to the dark side and bought my first Chinese top end from hutzl, for a Husky 55......I couldn't see anything that needed "tweaking".....I didn't like the look of the ring, so put a new Caber in, but other than that it's right out of the box. Waiting on a carb kit for the Zama, so I can give it a test run, but I'll be putting it through the paces. :msp_thumbsup:

Got the 55 together with the Hutzl P&C......I've ran it hard for 4 or 5 tanks and it runs nice, but definitely isn't a power house! I pulled the muffler and the piston looks like new, but compression is only 130....I wonder if they have the squish set really wide?

I wanted to test these as a cheap bolt on, so that's what I did.....Anyone experience less than stellar compression with these???

 

[Eccentric]

A couple weeks ago I ran a friend's 268XP that he'd just rebuilt using a 52mm Hutzl 272XP P/C set. He bolted it on as it came out of the box. I tuned it and made the first cuts with it. Did about a tank's worth of cutting with the saw. Ran fine, and seemed to be getting stronger as it was being used. Felt just a bit under my OEM P/C equipped 272XP (as far as power is concerned). My saw has a lot of miles on it, but the P/C are still in great shape. Exact comparison was impossible however, as my chain was pretty dull by that time. Will be interesting to see what sort of lifespan that $40 top end gives...

 

[MCW]

Hi guys. Hey as far as varying compression that is standard fare.
Without decent checking and testing you will always find variable squish and compression with kits such as these.
Even the better kits have small amounts of variation between kits, even on the same saw.
The old saying "you get what you pay for" certainly rings true with P&C kits direct from Asia. My buy price from Asia between the better manufacturers and the cheaper ones is quite substantial and in the order of USD$20-25 per kit. I had nothing but trouble with many of the cheaper kits from certain manufacturers so give them a miss now. There were too many headaches and returns so on the cheaper kits I ended up losing money once it was all said and done.

 

[CR888]

I have looked at these too. Only time will tell. Use a good oil right. They look OK. Keep us informed!

I would use a mineral oil (cheap) for break in and after 5-10 tanks switch over to your favourite oil (possibly synthetic) once rings are well seated with a good seal. Just my 2cents. I would'nt break in with a synthetic oil.

 

[jockeydeuce]

Hi guys. Hey as far as varying compression that is standard fare.
Without decent checking and testing you will always find variable squish and compression with kits such as these.
Even the better kits have small amounts of variation between kits, even on the same saw.
The old saying "you get what you pay for" certainly rings true with P&C kits direct from Asia. My buy price from Asia between the better manufacturers and the cheaper ones is quite substantial and in the order of USD$20-25 per kit. I had nothing but trouble with many of the cheaper kits from certain manufacturers so give them a miss now. There were too many headaches and returns so on the cheaper kits I ended up losing money once it was all said and done.

This one I bought was a test bed, so I'll pull the jug again and see if I can find the reason for the low compression.....I generally agree. You get what you pay for. I have stuck with OEM cylinders up until this one, and my first trip into this Chinese stuff looks like it's not worth it for me....A bummer really, as it would have been a good solution for getting these lower value saws back up and running.

Having said all that, there are some Hutzl parts I've been happy with, but I'm not sold on the cylinder kits at this point.

 

[jhill603085]

I bought a p/c kit from them for a stihl ms 250 that included just about everything that I needed. I bolted it right on, and now have three tanks of hard continuous cutting on the saw. The one complaint I would have was the rough casting on the intake where the piston meets the boot. Was causing an air leak at first, and with a little work it wasn't a big deal. So far I have no complaints about this kit from huztl

 

[jockeydeuce]

Well, here's my compression problem with the Hutzl 55 top end......



I'm a bit miffed to say the least, but not surprised......Might have to chalk this one up to experience. I'm not set up to cut cylinder bases, and that would just lead into degree wheels and porting. :msp_angry:

The whole point of trying this P&C was to come up with a cheap alternative for these saws.

 

[rms61moparman]

Actually, for what you are wanting, the squish on these is fine.
The average user will not be able to tell the difference in a saw with 130 compression and the same saw with 150.
MOST of the OPE world doesn't even know what a compression tester is, much less have one in their back pocket, and they wouldn't care anyway.
Does the saw start easily and when running, does it cut wood?
That's all that matters to the majority of saw users.

We, as saw geeks want the proverbial "something for nothing" whereby we can buy a top end kit for 50 bucks and have it arrive looking just as good as a $200.00 OEM top end and even out performing the original.
Sorry Charlie, just ain't gonna happen.



Mike

 

[millbilly]

Well, here's my compression problem with the Hutzl 55 top end......



I'm a bit miffed to say the least, but not surprised......Might have to chalk this one up to experience. I'm not set up to cut cylinder bases, and that would just lead into degree wheels and porting. :msp_angry:

The whole point of trying this P&C was to come up with a cheap alternative for these saws.

It couldn't be the Chinese calipers your using could it?

 

[jockeydeuce]

Actually, for what you are wanting, the squish on these is fine.
The average user will not be able to tell the difference in a saw with 130 compression and the same saw with 150.
MOST of the OPE world doesn't even know what a compression tester is, much less have one in their back pocket, and they wouldn't care anyway.
Does the saw start easily and when running, does it cut wood?
That's all that matters to the majority of saw users.

We, as saw geeks want the proverbial "something for nothing" whereby we can buy a top end kit for 50 bucks and have it arrive looking just as good as a $200.00 OEM top end and even out performing the original.
Sorry Charlie, just ain't gonna happen.



Mike

I agree on all points, Mike!

Now that I've looked closely at the piston, it's got some pretty rapid wear pattern on the intake side too, so not sure....Almost looks like the cylinder deck isn't square to the bore maybe?

Maybe I will delete the base gasket and pick up an extra .012" and leave it at that and see what happens......Too bad an 028 super doesn't have a longer skirt on the piston. I could make a killer piston swap!

It really is a bit lame with the low comp....I like mid 50cc saws, but this doesn't have any real jam!

 

[MrGiggles]

I bought two 55 P/C kits for my 50 Special and a 55. Both seemed to be of pretty decent quality and they went together well enough. They both run good and with a MM my 50 runs really strong for what it is. It's on par with my MM'ed 029.

I did not check squish or anything like that, although it might be worth it if it's excessive. I have access to a lathe and I could cut the squish band easy enough.. Would I have to mess with the ports at all if I did that? Would there be any discernible gain with a 20lbs more compression?

 

[boxygen]

Well, here's my compression problem with the Hutzl 55 top end......



I'm a bit miffed to say the least, but not surprised......Might have to chalk this one up to experience. I'm not set up to cut cylinder bases, and that would just lead into degree wheels and porting. :msp_angry:

The whole point of trying this P&C was to come up with a cheap alternative for these saws.

Where all 4 corners about the same on the squish?

 

[jockeydeuce]

I bought two 55 P/C kits for my 50 Special and a 55. Both seemed to be of pretty decent quality and they went together well enough. They both run good and with a MM my 50 runs really strong for what it is. It's on par with my MM'ed 029.

I did not check squish or anything like that, although it might be worth it if it's excessive. I have access to a lathe and I could cut the squish band easy enough.. Would I have to mess with the ports at all if I did that? Would there be any discernible gain with a 20lbs more compression?

My feeling on these is general inconsistency.....Yours may have a tighter squish and, and be making better compression that the one I got.

BTW....You would be cutting the cylinder base, not the squish band to reduce the squish clearance.

Where all 4 corners about the same on the squish?

Yep, within .002"

 

[MrGiggles]

My feeling on these is general inconsistency.....Yours may have a tighter squish and, and be making better compression that the one I got.

BTW....You would be cutting the cylinder base, not the squish band to reduce the squish clearance.






Yep, within .002"

I meant to say cylinder base. Too many terms floating around.

I guess I can try to check the compression although my tester is iffy. They both run good enough but mine won't hold it's weight by the pull rope.

 

[jockeydeuce]

I meant to say cylinder base. Too many terms floating around.

I guess I can try to check the compression although my tester is iffy. They both run good enough but mine won't hold it's weight by the pull rope.

I would love to see an accurate compression reading on yours......I'm curious if all these cylinders had the big wide squish, or if it's hit or miss?.....I've already ruled out the piston as the deck height is exactly the same as the stock old piston......I've pretty much decided that this brand isn't worth the trouble, but if I just happened to get a bad example, it would be good to know.

 

[MCW]

I see they have carbs too. Has anyone bought one of these copycat carbs?

Be wary of copycat carbs. Some are good and some aren't. For example some of the earlier 372XP carbs I got in would simply not keep up with the BB kits and were tuning up OK then leaning out under high load and seizing up. A different brand of Chinese carby labelled "GREENLOG" (looked exactly the same externally) has shown to keep up with even heavily ported BB top ends without any loss of tune. These carbies are still running well years later.
Even though ZAMA/Walbro carbs may have CHINA stamped on them from Stihl, Dolmar etc they are not necessarily the same as the aftermarket carbies. Unfortunately these problems sometimes don't present themselves when tuning but arise later during hard use.

It's interesting to see that some people have used these Chinese kits (A few of them) and had good success and yet there have been lots of others that had catastrophic failures almost out of the box, especially the big bore kits.....Must be a few different factories turning out varying quality?

There are a number of different manufacturers but in amongst that there are a number of different quality variations. I have no doubt that some of these suppliers will offload poorer quality kits from time to time hoping that nobody will notice - it's happened to me. In all honesty kit quality has improved a lot over the last few years though. Some of the earlier 372XP BB kits I tested had a 50% failure rate from hooking rings in the exhaust port and snapping the top out of the piston. Others have had the Nikasil plating come off with relatively low hours. I have a number of better quality kits that have pulled over 1000 hours now under commercial use with no loss of performance or reliability issues. There are reasons why guys like myself and Randy (watsonr) test most of the kits we sell and that is because the failure rate is actually quite high on certain kits from certain manufacturers.
It also pays to remember that some of the kits that look high quality don't stack up well once on the saw. Port timings, compression, and squish can make an otherwise good looking kit perform poorly.
As mentioned above 95% of consumers wouldn't know a good kit if it bit them on the arse. The only time they complain is when it blows up and won't run and then you're not sure whether it was even assembled and tuned properly to start with.

 

[heyduke]

not hultz, but...

I installed two NWP 84cc cylinder kits on two Makita 6401's. I bought both from Baileys. They didn't look like they came from the same factories. One was coated with black paint, perhaps to cover poor quality casting. Both had really sloppy, rough ports. After assembly one had 120psi compression, the other 100psi. Neither increased after break-in. The squish clearances on both are greater than .062". One is so bad that it won't even make a dent in 1/16" solder. I'm wondering if cutting the cylinder base enough to bring them into .020" will alter the port timing adversely. I'm definitely thinking I should have gotten the Dolmar 7900 p/c's. That being said, I've put many hours on both saws and they cut well. I just feel like I'm getting mediocre performance.

 

[MrGiggles]

I did try a compression test the other day but my tester is somewhat of a POS and I couldn't get a very accurate reading. I tried checking squish with .06 solder and did not make a noticeable flat spot on it.. Which is somewhat surprising to me considering how well it runs. But what can I expect for 50.00, and in the end I hope to have a good running saw and it will be nice to have the skills to build a screamer later on if I have the need.

I have ordered a Caber ring for it and I want to pull the jug to get a more accurate measurement and see what I can do. Like the above poster, I hope removing the base gasket/cutting the cylinder base won't affect the port timing very much. If a builder could chime in here I would really appreciate it. I'm a little afraid of grinding on a new cylinder and I know very little about porting.

 

[jockeydeuce]

I did try a compression test the other day but my tester is somewhat of a POS and I couldn't get a very accurate reading. I tried checking squish with .06 solder and did not make a noticeable flat spot on it.. Which is somewhat surprising to me considering how well it runs. But what can I expect for 50.00, and in the end I hope to have a good running saw and it will be nice to have the skills to build a screamer later on if I have the need.

I have ordered a Caber ring for it and I want to pull the jug to get a more accurate measurement and see what I can do. Like the above poster, I hope removing the base gasket/cutting the cylinder base won't affect the port timing very much. If a builder could chime in here I would really appreciate it. I'm a little afraid of grinding on a new cylinder and I know very little about porting.

Mine barely bumped the .060 solder as well......Looks like that's the way they're making them. The thickness of the gasket isn't going to affect your timing.

I own this thing now....I might set up and cut the base and see what it does....I'm dumb like that. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[heyduke]

Mine barely bumped the .060 solder as well......Looks like that's the way they're making them. The thickness of the gasket isn't going to affect your timing.

I own this thing now....I might set up and cut the base and see what it does....I'm dumb like that. :hmm3grin2orange:

I resolved my problems, took the two Makitas apart and found that i had installed the shims intended for use on a Solo brand saw. I don't know what I could have been thinking. I knew what the shims were for but somehow they found their ways in like they were gaskets. Anyway, I removed all shims and gaskets, reassembled with high temp oakumpucky between case and cylinder. Now my compression tester, which I think reads a little low, is showing just under 150psi. Both saws run well. This was a case of "a short circuit between the earphones."