Huztl MS660

[Bedford T]

@trboxman that will certainly nail nine screw placements and that's helpful. they have a system.

@kyler contacting them was a breeze for you

those seals being in place adds a unnecessary level of complexity to the build, because you should not install the crank with them in place. if you apply heat to easy the bearing installation you can damage the seals. I drove down and picked up the recommended harbor freight puller and the nubs are slightly too large to run them inside the bearing to pull. on the short side of the crank all is fine and in place. on the long side which technically is the clutch side I can not...have yet to get that seal out...and I have access to the center. i honestly did not expect to see them in place.

I have read about drilling the plate barely enough to start a drywall screw and pull from there but that bearing is so close. i am not spending $300 on one of those oil seal removers stihl has. my stihl dealer likely would charge me $50-75 and i would have to wait in line 3-4 weeks for him to get to it.

anyone got any ideas?

 

[Kyler Monares]

I guess I got really lucky about it that I at least got one response back. I haven't received anything else though

 

[trboxman]

anyone got any ideas?

This should work: https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-58430-Shaft-Type-Puller/dp/B000FPYW4K

 

[Bedford T]

AWESOME!! everybody better order one your going need it. Thank goodness it not hundreds of dollars, that was a nice puller I picked up just too big.

I remembered I did all this prep work to make sure my green bu tt could do this thing and that included making lists, endless list and one of those was a fastener list. So I humbly present that, I forgot I had it, been in a tail spin over those bearing, seals.

Anyway, I went back over it and took the boxes I filled and compared to the list. At the end of the line you will find a * or a #. The * means (some) it is in the kit and the # means shorted or missing, FROM MY KIT.

They coulda done a better job on those screws, that said this was suppose to be complete and we are going to have to order a few screws. Hopefully they will send us more when we pay them again, actually send them. Foil, screws and some clips. There are some fastner packs not labeled but knowing where to look should make it a snap to find, but again you may be short or missing. Use this in conjugation with trboxman's work and we should be set.

the brake assembly looks to be missing 3, 4x10 but they could be in those unlabeled packs and 5x12, its on the list.

 

[BTarb24]

I drove down and picked up the recommended harbor freight puller and the nubs are slightly too large to run them inside the bearing to pull.

Would you be able to grind the nubs down so that they're thinner? The HF tool isn't exactly a lifetime tool. Grinding it up a bit isn't so bad as long as it gets the job done.

 

[weimedog]

@trboxman that will certainly nail nine screw placements and that's helpful. they have a system.

@kyler contacting them was a breeze for you

those seals being in place adds a unnecessary level of complexity to the build, because you should not install the crank with them in place. if you apply heat to easy the bearing installation you can damage the seals. I drove down and picked up the recommended harbor freight puller and the nubs are slightly too large to run them inside the bearing to pull. on the short side of the crank all is fine and in place. on the long side which technically is the clutch side I can not...have yet to get that seal out...and I have access to the center. i honestly did not expect to see them in place.

I have read about drilling the plate barely enough to start a drywall screw and pull from there but that bearing is so close. i am not spending $300 on one of those oil seal removers stihl has. my stihl dealer likely would charge me $50-75 and i would have to wait in line 3-4 weeks for him to get to it.

anyone got any ideas?

Not as much of and issue as you might think. I've used some heat on the bearing and chill the crank on Husqvarna's & Stihl's. I used a heat gun and a laser thermometer to keep the heat on the bearing under 230-240 heating from the opposite side from the seal and put the crank in my freezer. On these I used a press but it didn't need a lot to ease them together even when NO heat was applied. On the first one, I didn't turn the crank a bit to help the step get through the clutch side seal and ended up inverting the seal. Had to pop it out and put another one in. I have a seal installation tool I bought from Definitive Dave I believe but by the time it arrived had just made my own.

So your going to destroy that seal anyway if your going to yank it out...try putting that thing together first.

Also to take out the seal I drilled a small hole ALMOST through.. carefully and put in a punch to poke the rest of the way & deform that hole bigger & pushed to raise one side. Then used a seal tool...the ones with a hook like shape you get at napa to pry it out. Have to be careful on the first hole not to poke the nylon in the bearing.

SO I thought after that first experience it was going to be an issue so ordered a bunch of Huztl Bearings & seals...... also because I was impatient went to the local Stihl dealer and bought an OEM seal.....installed it. And never had another issue with the rest of those MS660's I put together so have a bunch of spares if I ever do have an issue! A couple of those saws are seen in my video's and are doing just fine. On the second & third one I was using the press to get that step to where it just started pushing on the seal. Then (it was oiled before hand) turned the crank some pushed a little more and they worked there way through. Then I got smart and built the tool that had two inside diameters, one a slip fit over the clutch side of the crank to center the tool then a step to the larger crank diameter that was coming through the seal while not allowing that seal to curl back....like the stihl seal installation tool. Had a larger OD to support the bearing outer race as I pressed the entire mess together. Used it twice with no issue.

A litany of my experience with saw 2 & 3 BEFORE special tools

 

[Bedford T]

Would you be able to grind the nubs down so that they're thinner? The HF tool isn't exactly a lifetime tool. Grinding it up a bit isn't so bad as long as it gets the job done.

i am sorry i was not creative enough to think of that. Very thankful there are helpful people here to steer ya. I will look closely at it and take a run at it. great idea. I will report. should the seal be out first or can i pull them both out together?

 

[Chris-PA]

I had a lot of fun with them. I also went into it expecting to have problems to solve. That was part of the challenge. What I ended up with far surpassed my expectations. Even with the warts. Looks like you folks will beat the 400 Mark I was shooting for....and think about what you will have learned and the class of capability in that machine. The comparisons with OEM is a bit rediculous unless you can buy a 90cc oem saw for the same money and the volumn of these won't impact sales of the true oem pro level saws simply because 1000 bucks isnt enough more to make it worth the risk! So whats left are saw geeks like us often with way too many saws already...

I'm looking forward to what you folks produce. Makes me feel more sane seeing others launch off the cliff....

I agree entirely. When I did my Chinese G621 clone it was with exactly the mindset, but some could not get past the idea of comparing it to a factory OEM saw. It was fun and by substituting my time and ability I got a nice running saw. They are surely not for everyone, and I said at the time that I considered it to be a saw kit that needed almost a complete tear down and going over before use. I also said I would have rather had a box of parts and assemble it myself rather than having to try to find and fix the assembly mistakes already made, which is what this is. You can clean up the casting and molding flash before mounting other parts, which they didn't do on mine.

Although I did not have to deal with bearings and seals as that was all assembled and has worked fine. The only OEM parts I ended up using were some A/V bushing retainers and an air filter retainer nut, as the parts I got were just not well made.

I'd like to have one of the 372 kits, but I would rarely use it as the G621 clone does all I need for wood I have around here.

 

[Bedford T]

@weimedog "Not as much of and issue as you might think." so says the guy with the press, who resorted to the press when approaching this the first times.

I still think the seals in place adds a unnecessary level of complexity. But, its OK because others can now already be aware as we chart our build progress. There will be guys with or without and if we share the have not side also all can share and be joyful. Like those tips you gave on how to drill and use the punch. i am onboard for the basic way. if i build more than 3 I will buy tools.

Actually this is a much bigger lesson all the way around. thats what we are doing here. charting the course. together. define the problem or step, discuss solutions, explore and execute, evaluate.

I think it would require less drama to instruct first timers, soak the seal in assembly lube and... place the seal and press downward with both thumbs working it in... like in the stihl repair bible. again in support of my quoted statement.

i have watched all those video 5-8 times before i placed the order and took away this guy has knowledge and tools i don't have better find something i can minic.

all the tips are appreciated.

all in all this is way cool, each contributing what we can for each other...something like a village. i am not surprised, it is everything I expected. except the seals.

Not as much of and issue as you might think. I've used some heat on the bearing and chill the crank on Husqvarna's & Stihl's. I used a heat gun and a laser thermometer to keep the heat on the bearing under 230-240 heating from the opposite side from the seal and put the crank in my freezer. On these I used a press but it didn't need a lot to ease them together even when NO heat was applied. On the first one, I didn't turn the crank a bit to help the step get through the clutch side seal and ended up inverting the seal. Had to pop it out and put another one in. I have a seal installation tool I bought from Definitive Dave I believe but by the time it arrived had just made my own.

So your going to destroy that seal anyway if your going to yank it out...try putting that thing together first.

Also to take out the seal I drilled a small hole ALMOST through.. carefully and put in a punch to poke the rest of the way & deform that hole bigger & pushed to raise one side. Then used a seal tool...the ones with a hook like shape you get at napa to pry it out. Have to be careful on the first hole not to poke the nylon in the bearing.

SO I thought after that first experience it was going to be an issue so ordered a bunch of Huztl Bearings & seals...... also because I was impatient went to the local Stihl dealer and bought an OEM seal.....installed it. And never had another issue with the rest of those MS660's I put together so have a bunch of spares if I ever do have an issue! A couple of those saws are seen in my video's and are doing just fine. On the second & third one I was using the press to get that step to where it just started pushing on the seal. Then (it was oiled before hand) turned the crank some pushed a little more and they worked there way through. Then I got smart and built the tool that had two inside diameters, one a slip fit over the clutch side of the crank to center the tool then a step to the larger crank diameter that was coming through the seal while not allowing that seal to curl back....like the stihl seal installation tool. Had a larger OD to support the bearing outer race as I pressed the entire mess together. Used it twice with no issue.

A litany of my experience with saw 2 & 3 BEFORE special tools

 

[trboxman]

.....BEFORE special tools

I'd love a run down of how you do it now AFTER special tools. Especially those that make life a lot easier vs. just making do.

 

[Bedford T]

Ok, here the proof cavemen can participate. I admit an unfair advantage, I own a harbor freight bench top drill press. I followed directions and drilled the holes used a slightly bigger screw driver and the punch and removed the buggered up seal I had been picking at.
Yeah me. I could not see damage from the removal affecting the bearing. Its not smooth anymore and thats likely the failed install. i will clean it and see if it makes a difference. I did it. THANK YOU, sirs

 

[Bedford T]

The bearing is fine, it just had some bits in it that i flushed out. guess i just need to order the seal and think i will look at the washer idea stacked and slipped over the threaded foot of the crank and close it with a nut and devise some way to pull it through the case while i wait for seal delivery.

it appears I tore the gasket around the locating pin. should i get another gasket or patch it with yamabond? maybe better replace?

 

[Bedford T]

that's fairly simple. buy the tools. they have a puller that's almost $300 and they have seal installers costing less. in fact i have a list of special tools you can order. take a look at the repair bible. they must have 15 special tools, some of them are real special. the one that pulls has different attachments. man thats heaven to have the right tool for the right situation. Peruse the list I included, if you had those tools would you be asking questions?

I'd love a run down of how you do it now AFTER special tools. Especially those that make life a lot easier vs. just making do.

 

[Bedford T]

i just just talked to a true stihl guy and invited him to join in here. hes a gold mechanic whether he speaks up i bet he watches, it was of interest to him, just like us. he saw the crankcase and crank we discussed putting it together and he recommends the washer trick and applying heat. he had used heat and the freezer in the past.

 

[davhul]

That's what I do. Sometimes the lady in the office asks what's in the freezer. Is he in here? if he's planing on going to the platinum class I know 4 others from around the country that might sign up for the same date. May not be this year

 

[Bedford T]

he is the man around here.

does anyone know what the threads are on the crank clutch side? what nut i would use. i want to slip some washers over the end and pull on them.

i got out the service manual and it says to fit two m5x72 screws into the clutch side of the case and tighten the down until they stop, to prevent twisting, i missed that before. that would help even if you used a different tool

thanks

 

[davhul]

It's left handed metric. What I did was weld a 1/2" nut to a old clutch Carrier

 

[Bedford T]

Ok thanks ,Would you dumb that down some for me? what's the thread size so I can find the right one to use?

 

[trboxman]

Case, crank, flywheel, piston & cylinder are together.

I pushed the PTO side oil seal out from the inside with a small screwdriver prior to pressing the crank in the case. Flywheel side is no bother at all. I didn't use heat or cold, just oil and the brute force of a 20ton press. I don't like pressing it together. I'll fab up a puller for the next one I do. I ordered a Chinese clutch and an extra flywheel nut to use in the fab of the pullers.

 

[jackjcc]

The Huztl web site doesn't seem to be working. Tried the computer and no dice there. Anybody able to get on it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk