Hyway 660 cylinder kit review

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Rugged made
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Come on JJ....you worked mostly for the USPissfirs.....wasn't that many hours on the saw!!!:msp_rolleyes:
 
thomas1 said:
So, 4-5 piston replacements over the length your ownership would not be extraordinary, correct?
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That wouldn't happen. The average log cutter here is switching around saws. Some jobs you're using a 460 or a 372. Some jobs you're breaking out a bigger saw.
It's hard to quantify because you're not using the same saw all the time. One job here you might be straight falling and then the next job might be full manufacture
in bigger wood. Plus it's different in different regions. The northern California guys are usually cutting bigger wood, so they might be doing more manufacture
in the brush. The guys on the east side might be doing all of their manufacture in the brush, even in smaller wood.
 
Jacob J. said:
That wouldn't happen. The average log cutter here is switching around saws. Some jobs you're using a 460 or a 372. Some jobs you're breaking out a bigger saw.
It's hard to quantify because you're not using the same saw all the time. One job here you might be straight falling and then the next job might be full manufacture
in bigger wood. Plus it's different in different regions. The northern California guys are usually cutting bigger wood, so they might be doing more manufacture
in the brush. The guys on the east side might be doing all of their manufacture in the brush, even in smaller wood.
Click to expand...

Just trying to get an idea of how maintenance and costs stack up, cylinders versus everything else. Some guys try to make a big stink about how an aftermarket cylinder isn't going to last as long as an OEM one, when it seems that very few people will ever wear either one out before something else kills the saw.
 
Jacob J. said:
That wouldn't happen. The average log cutter here is switching around saws. Some jobs you're using a 460 or a 372. Some jobs you're breaking out a bigger saw.
It's hard to quantify because you're not using the same saw all the time. One job here you might be straight falling and then the next job might be full manufacture
in bigger wood. Plus it's different in different regions. The northern California guys are usually cutting bigger wood, so they might be doing more manufacture
in the brush. The guys on the east side might be doing all of their manufacture in the brush, even in smaller wood.
Click to expand...

A normal firewood doof like me almost couldn't wear one out. LOL I would get tired long before it did ! LOL If its taken care of !

Racing saws should be a lot different , I would think ? Has to be way harder on the saw.



Now , whats Wiggs waiting on ? :msp_rolleyes:
 
Dennis Cahoon said:
You are so full of it JJ!......that's maybe actual time on the job....not actual saw time!!!!!
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How much time did you spend roadside brushing? Doing right-of-ways? Thinning? Fuels reduction? Cutting line around units? I did a lot of that mixed in with cutting logs.

thomas1 said:
Just trying to get an idea of how maintenance and costs stack up, cylinders versus everything else. Some guys try to make a big stink about how an aftermarket cylinder isn't going to last as long as an OEM one, when it seems that very few people will ever wear either one out before something else kills the saw.
Click to expand...

Well, most people are not going to wear out a cylinder, plain and simple. Even tree services that put pretty hard wear and tear on ground saws usually blow bearings, cases, plastic parts long before a jug. If you look at their junk piles, you'll see a lot of their saws still have salvageable cylinders.
 
Jacob J. said:
How much time did you spend roadside brushing? Doing right-of-ways? Thinning? Fuels reduction? Cutting line around units? I did a lot of that mixed in with cutting logs.
Click to expand...

JJ......Your saw was not running the hours you are claiming!
 
thomas1 said:
What's been your experience as far as saw time per week? Have you ever seen anyone wear out a cylinder from sheer hours of usage?
Click to expand...

I haven't seen a saw wear out the cylinder without another problem involved. Like I've said before, I would change rings to bring the saw back around if it started to slow up. If the piston was worn I'd change both. If it seized, I'd try to save the cylinder and put in a new piston. The cylinder was usually only a problem if it scratched thru the chrome or nicisil.
 
Jacob J. said:
Maybe, maybe not. I don't worry too much about it. I've put my fair share of time in behind a saw and I've worn out plenty.
Click to expand...


I'm not saying your saws didn't wear out in time, but I know you run time per-day is off!.....JJ you can't BS a BSer!.....Hahahahahahaha!
 
thomas1 said:
What is the expected life expectancy of an OEM cylinder? How long does it take to cut that much wood?

Say the life expectancy is 1000 hours, is it reasonable to assume someone could cut a cord in an hour? If you cut 50 cords a year, that's 20 years. I'd venture to say that if you get half that time you've probably gotten your money's worth.

For the all the people that are not running a saw professionally, how many have worn out a cylinder? For that matter, how many pros have worn a cylinder out? Is the cylinder likely to go before the crank, all things being equal?
Click to expand...

Here is what I have observed,

Very few plated cylinders are replaced because they are worn out, of those that are the vast majority are open port transfers.

For me, worn out means, the plating has worn away or the bore has become to out of shape compared to one with less use, and a new piston is a loose fit at best. A common example would be the 1127s Stihls, 029-039s, tons of them out there. Sometimes they can be re-done with a new piston but sometimes the bore is to to worn for just a piston. Would a new piston make the saw run, probably, but the value would be marginal compared to a new P/C set especially if a person was paying a shop rate rebuild. As the new piston wears in the amount of time it is a good running saw is reduced faster as the fit was already impaired. 020-200Ts are another example, I have a lot cylinders for those that would be useable but not as good as a new one in terms of durabilty, I am unaware of any shops in the area that will replace only the piston on a 200T rebuild.

In terms of wearing out a cylinder myself, from start to finish, I have only owned and used one from start to finish, the one in my original Makita 520 DCS, the cylinder looks okay but a new piston fit in it like a hotdog in a hallway, and yes more than one new piston was tried. The crank and bearings are fine but the saw is done, needs a cylinder, clutch and a crankcase. I got my money's worth out of that saw.

Poulan 3400s are also a saw that I have seen more than a few worn out cylinders on. They get the ridge in the bore where the rings stop. Not fixing that with a new piston.

My last remaining 1100CD cylinder has worn through the plating, looks great other than the missing plating but I should not use it anymore and have not in years. I did not provide most of the run time on that cylinder but I finished it off.

I have come across lots of other but those are what sprung to mind.

Luckily most P/Cs are not worn out when they are replaced or I would have to buy A LOT more cylinders and that would have me buying a lot more AM kits which I am not opposed to for my own personal use as long as the value that I am after is there. Bolt on out of the box complete kit, buyer beware at rock bottom price. Once an AM kit is close to 50% of OEM cost I am going OEM. Now the problem with 1122s is the freak'n OEM kits at $300.00 are not much of a value anymore.
 
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wigglesworth said:
So several weeks ago, Mr. Watson sent me a real nice 660 kit. I could type a lot, and babble a bit, but pictures speak a thousand words....

B21770C1-909F-48BC-961C-9F58D851EA88-5147-0000034287C88311_zpsfa17f6db.jpg







It's a pretty slick lookin kit. Only thing I don't like are the split groove rings, but as I understand, Randy W. is carrying cabers for his kits now.

There is an 066 in transit from VA, and she'll be bolted straight on, timing checked and then sent to the mill to be real world evaluated.

Should be fun. Stay tuned.... :)
Click to expand...

Howdy,

Glad you like it. It's taken me a lot of years of pushing, pulling, and prodding on a shoestring budget to get to this point. No, they're not quite there yet but, we're getting closer all the time. If you have a stock bore kit there, and the exhaust port has been raised with a shortened piston, something is wrong. That set up was just for the big bores where the crankcase has random clearance issues with the piston. Doing it to a standard bore would cause you to lose displacement for no reason.

Regards
Gregg
 
thomas1 said:
On the 029-039's was the plating worn or did the casting shift, causing the bore to no longer be concentric?
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In general I would say between the two choices above it would be plating worn by a very large margin and then what I think you are calling casting shift, what I refered to as being the out of shape, with both those choices trailing way way behing lean damage. This is where someone with a better understanding of cylinders than me will hopefully step in.

That being said I did pick up some used cylinders today.....

Typically on the 1127s it is damage caused by being run to lean. All 6 of the 1127 cylinders I got today that is the case.

One of those cylinders has the plating worn through on the intake side top and bottom and above the exhaust port.

None have any detectable ring ridge. I use a fine wire dental pick, it works very well.

I did not get the pistons with these cylinders but I would suspect that they were fairly low hour saws and the pistons would have very little transfer port imprint on them and that 5 of the pistons would still have fairly even thick piston skirts.

The piston that went with the cylinder with the worn through plating was probably fairly thin on the intake and exhaust skirts but judging by the color of the bore on the transfer partitions it was not a high hour saw just a horribly maintained one.

The cylinders that have the pistons with the really deep side imprints, the super thin exhaust side skirts and super thinned rings are the ones that really need to be measured/tested before slapping a new piston in them. These will typically have a fairly strong imprint of the piston travel on the bore as well as the piston. Not just a "carbon" print but actual clean it up with a ScotchBrite pad and it will look good but can still feel a ridge with a pick imprint. This is what I think you are refering to as casting shift. If that is correct, I see very few of those compared to lean damage or worn plating. One thing about cylinders in this condition, even if they look very clean and the plating looks very good if they are treated with acid a lot more holes will show up than with a cylinder with much less use.

I have had a few cylinders where the transition from the bore wall to the roof seems to have increased with wear to the point of not being useable, ring snag. However it was accomplished I feel that those were caused by poor quality control(bad machining/poor plating) and do not include them as a bore with a use induce ring ridge.

Todays 1127 numbers would be:

6@1127 cylinders
6 lean damage
1 plating worn through, finished off with exhaust side piston alum transfer, alot of it.
0 casting shift

Todays total haul was fairly small so not much 1127s stuff was included. This is a good thing.
 
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