I call B.S. on Stihl. My dyno doesn't lie. MS 461 is king over MS 660

[singinwoodwackr]

Sorry for derail

Just for comparison, these janka scale(hardness) figure are taken from several woodfloor supply companies so comparable to standing dead trees, a very common reason to cut it down

American

Osage orange - 2760 lbf
Hickory - 1820 lbf
Hard maple - 1450 lbf
White oak - 1360 lbf
Beech - 1300 lbf
Red oak - 1290 lbf
Black walnut 1010 lbf
Gum - 850 lbf
Elm - 830 lbf
Cypress - 690 lbf
Cottonwood - 430 lbf

English

Yew - 1600
English oak - 1400

Aussie

Grey ironbark - 3750 lbf
Grey box - 3370 lbf
Ironbark - 3150 lbf
Grey gum - 3150 lbf
Red mahogany - 2700 lbf
Spotted gum - 2470 lbf
Sydney blue gum 2030 lbf

Aussie cypress 1370 lbf - harder than US oak 1360 lbf

These are just a few, the small garden trees are the same, dense heavy and really hard. I've noticed European ash is harder here too

dang! I think I'd be running carbide chain on some of that stuff.

 

[Trx250r180]

Randy need one of those ticket machines in the lobby of the dmv

 

[singinwoodwackr]

My .02...

Bought my first 066 in '92 to replace a borrowed 031 and pair with my 266xp that I'd had for a couple years. I was working on a firewood crew that mainly used 266xps until the 044s came out. Most of us used 24" bars, some of the taller guys, 28s as we did 95% of our cutting standing up (wore out tips fairly fast ). This had mainly to do with the procedure of taking an Almond tree apart. Trees were Almond with branches ranging from 4-10" and average stumps @ 12-18", sometimes smaller. Only one 75yr old orchard had trees in the 25-30" stump range and branches to 16-18".
We all got paid by the cord cut/split (maul), wood piled at the stump and brush piled in the middle of 2 rows of trees so speed was all we cared about.
The 266s were much faster than the 031 I also had and about equal with the 044s. I preferred the Husky to the Stihl so kept my 266. All saws stock, single port muff...nobody ever thought of modding
One guy bought one of the 'new' 066s and brought it out to compare with the other saws used in the orchard. (saw was stock with dual port, Magnum 'red-eye', 24" bar, comp chisel chain, round file, 8t sprocket.) Wow, there simply was no comparison between it and any of the other saws, none. It would zip through the smaller hard Almond branches in fractions of seconds and blow through the thicker stuff equally faster than anything else we had. Weight difference? you bet but those who got the 66s got used to it fairly quickly. I could keep 2 brushers humping where one used to suffice.

One day I bashed in the front muff cover and had to pick up a replacement. All the shop had was the flat cover (no port) so, not knowing anything about muffler differences, bought it and installed. The saw wouldn't even run...duh. Retuned it and it was a complete dog, slower cutting then my 266xp. WTF?
That's when I learned the difference. Stihl's spec sheet at the time put the Mag dual port red-eye at 7.8hp and the 'other' model with SP at 7.0hp. (I still have the sheet).

I've never used the 'newer' 660s so can't comment on it but there was absolutely no comparison between an 044 and an 066 DP Mag back then.

 

[MCW]

My .02...

Bought my first 066 in '92 to replace a borrowed 031 and pair with my 266xp that I'd had for a couple years. I was working on a firewood crew that mainly used 266xps until the 044s came out. Most of us used 24" bars, some of the taller guys, 28s as we did 95% of our cutting standing up (wore out tips fairly fast ). This had mainly to do with the procedure of taking an Almond tree apart. Trees were Almond with branches ranging from 4-10" and average stumps @ 12-18", sometimes smaller. Only one 75yr old orchard had trees in the 25-30" stump range and branches to 16-18".
We all got paid by the cord cut/split (maul), wood piled at the stump and brush piled in the middle of 2 rows of trees so speed was all we cared about.
The 266s were much faster than the 031 I also had and about equal with the 044s. I preferred the Husky to the Stihl so kept my 266. All saws stock, single port muff...nobody ever thought of modding
One guy bought one of the 'new' 066s and brought it out to compare with the other saws used in the orchard. (saw was stock with dual port, Magnum 'red-eye', 24" bar, comp chisel chain, round file, 8t sprocket.) Wow, there simply was no comparison between it and any of the other saws, none. It would zip through the smaller hard Almond branches in fractions of seconds and blow through the thicker stuff equally faster than anything else we had. Weight difference? you bet but those who got the 66s got used to it fairly quickly. I could keep 2 brushers humping where one used to suffice.

One day I bashed in the front muff cover and had to pick up a replacement. All the shop had was the flat cover (no port) so, not knowing anything about muffler differences, bought it and installed. The saw wouldn't even run...duh. Retuned it and it was a complete dog, slower cutting then my 266xp. WTF?
That's when I learned the difference. Stihl's spec sheet at the time put the Mag dual port red-eye at 7.8hp and the 'other' model with SP at 7.0hp. (I still have the sheet).

I've never used the 'newer' 660s so can't comment on it but there was absolutely no comparison between an 044 and an 066 DP Mag back then.

Interesting about the almonds. I've cut a lot of them myself and they are tough to cut. Not to mention all the dust in the bark from constant machinery movement through orchards. Saws doing this sort of work get a lot harder workout than logging as it's non stop, all day. Nowadays orchards are cleared with an excavator/dozer/loader but smaller saws are still used for pruning and canopy management.
You're also correct regarding "saw fitness". Once you spend some long days on the bigger saws it all gets easier.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

put a poulan wildthing on the dyno i dare yee.

 

[Deets066]

put a poulan wildthing on the dyno i dare yee.

That would probably beat the 660 also!

 

[MustangMike]

Don't underestimate the difference a dual port makes on a big saw like that, it has to breath.

Singin states w/o the dual port it was a dog. I think we are on to something.

 

[LegDeLimber]

Chadiham: have you noted the screw settings on the flow limit screw?
Let's say that you mount one saw and set the dyno to keep the saw at
a semi-arbitrary rpm like 9000 while the saw is at WOT.
Now without touching the dynos settings, shut down and put the other saw in
and run it up to WOT and see what rpm it's delivering.

Have you been counting turns of the flow restricter and noting them (like carb screws)
and making any comparison between saws?

With folks talking about a chain & bar load, this would be as close as you could get
to an equaly loaded run, right?
No way to say that saw "A" or "B" got a knotty or rotten spot of wood
or even if the same chain was run on both saws,
It might not have been sharpened as well for each saws cuts.
No saying that one bar had a better groove, etc....

 

[KG441c]

I really need that dyno.

Now were talking!!

 

[chadihman]

put a poulan wildthing on the dyno i dare yee.

send it.

 

[chadihman]

Chadiham: have you noted the screw settings on the flow limit screw?
Let's say that you mount one saw and set the dyno to keep the saw at
a semi-arbitrary rpm like 9000 while the saw is at WOT.
Now without touching the dynos settings, shut down and put the other saw in
and run it up to WOT and see what rpm it's delivering.

Have you been counting turns of the flow restricter and noting them (like carb screws)
and making any comparison between saws?

With folks talking about a chain & bar load, this would be as close as you could get
to an equaly loaded run, right?
No way to say that saw "A" or "B" got a knotty or rotten spot of wood
or even if the same chain was run on both saws,
It might not have been sharpened as well for each saws cuts.
No saying that one bar had a better groove, etc....

The only problem I see with keeping the needle the same and swapping saws is the oil gets warm and pushes through the needle valve easier. Good Idea though!

Here's how I do it. I put the first saw on it and let it idle for a minute then load it and blip the throttle a bunch of times. I then load the saw at 9000 rpms till it reaches max operating temp. If you read post #157 you'll see the saw reaches a max temp and maintains after a minute of load. I then get a video camera set up to view rpms and the torque reading on the scale. The first test is at 10,000 rpm. I hold the saw WOT and set the loaded rpm at 10,000 then let off the throttle and the scale is zeroed. I then hold the throttle WOT for 30 seconds or so. Then while I'm holding the throttle WOT I set the loaded rpm to 9500 rpms with the hyd needle valve. I check to make sure the scale returns to zero then I hold it WOT for 30 seconds. I continue this pattern for every 500 rpms all the way down to 6500 rpms. Then I watch the video with a pen and note paper ready. I let the video play till I see and here when I'm setting the loaded rpm then I pause the video and slide the video counter through the 30 second rpm pull and record the scale and rpm #'s. It works really slick and leaves a page of chick scratch that I then start calculating all the #'s to get torque and Hp at every 500 rpms from 10,000 -6500 rpms.

 

[DexterDay]

opcorn:

Carry on.. Just subscribing

 

[Mastermind]

How does your 460 fair against 660s Dex?

 

[DexterDay]

How does your 460 fair against 660s Dex?

It only ran against one, but it beat it

The 441's did as well

 

[Mastermind]

A 71cc MS441 beat a 91cc MS660?

Bullsh!t I say........

 

[DexterDay]

A 71cc MS441 beat a 91cc MS660?

Bullsh!t I say........

MasterMech was there as well Seen with our own eyes! LOL...

 

[Mastermind]

All in the chain then....

 

[MustangMike]

My brother ran his MS 460 today, the first time since I removed the carb limiters, installed the dual port muffler cover and a HD-2 filter. He loved it. Said that it not only ran stronger than it ever did before, but the trigger response was noticeably better.

I was happy he liked it, and that square file chain doesn't hurt either.

 

[Wood Doctor]

With that dual port muffler on board, you have to enrichen that fuel mixture. I noticed that immediately with my 046. Seemed like the engine was going to tear itself to pieces with over 14,000 RPM and idling was rough. The saw just plain ran too hot under load. After some adjustments, it settled down.

 

[Deets066]

It only ran against one, but it beat it

The 441's did as well

And my 066 beats my 088


In small wood! Throw the big bars on and see if a 441 will beat a 660