I read the archives, but need some help!

[Drew78]

Ok everyone-

Time to start hand filing!!!

I run Stihl RS in 18 and 20 loops.

Now I have a Stihl dealer about 2 min from my house and want to know what you guys think of the bench mounted filing rig. Looks pretty secure and like it would work well.

Also I am thinking about starting with filing round rather than square. Stupid idea? I had read that the round was a lot easier to pick up in terms of mechanics, and as I get better at that, I could try my hand at filing square.

Stihl also makes a "complete filing kit" with guides, files, raker gauge... Thinking that might be a good investment too.
I know Husky is supposed to make a good roller guide, and I would be very interested in one, but there isnt a Husky dealer around at all.

Any thoughts, comments, or tips would be VERY appreciated! I am really pumped to try this out. I know that the little pamphlet that came with my chain has some diagrams with angles on them, I just need the right tools for the job! Love buying new tools....

-Drew

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Drew, it is much easier to be a lousy square filer, than a lousy round filer. Round filing is just fine for 99% of us.
Use only good, new, 13/64" files, filing free hand. Go gently, clean out gullets. Keep rakers at 20 thou. file every tank, one even, light, gentle, deliberate stroke.
John

 

[Drew78]

Thanks Gypo-

I can sharpen the RS via the round method right?
Do you have any pictures of what a good round filed cutter should look like for my reference as I go along?
It still seems like a good idea to get the bench mounted set up as it was mentioned by Mr. Martin that you want to keep the chain locked in with no movement. I know I am not making racing chain here, but it sure seems like it would help the cause amd be more exacting.

So sounds like round filing is the way to go at first here, untill I get a good handle on it that is, or bored and want to step up to the square filing!

Keep the tips, comments, bashings, advice, and the beer comming!

-Drew

 

[Stumper]

Yes ! definitely start with round filing (and probably end there-square filing is much more difficult). If you want to check on ebay you'll find a plethora of sharpening aids and devices. The simple little Oregon Gizmo which consists of a v bar and clamps to hold the file just off the point of the V seems to work well for most people. ( you lay one flat of that bar on top of the tooth line of your index marks for angle and stroke the file through the cutter). If I remember correctly your Stihl chain has witness marks on each tooth for setting the angle so it is very easy to freehand file-but while your getting a feel for where the file is positioned a guide may be helpful to you.

There is nothing WRONG with building a jig and doing precision filing but it would be kind of like starting your riding lessons as a jockey at the Kentucky Derby. Learn the basics with the chain on the saw. Sharpen then cut. Test . Learn. The whole point of round filing chain is to put the saw back to work efficiently. Art's set up is for doing absolutely perfect filing and stoning to try to shave fractions of seconds off of cut times in races.

 

[Drew78]

Thanks Stumper!

So it sounds like a round file in a guide and a tool to adjust the rakers is about all I will need to start this process! I will check on e-bay and see what turns up. Like I said before my Stihl dealer is right around the corner and they have a good assortment of files and guides. Dont know if I can wait, I want to try my hand at this ASAP!!!!

Drew

 

[Tree Machine]

Filing jigs

Do you have a way to hold your saw steady? There are stump vises that work real well. I prefer clamping my bar in a regular vise, ideally one that swivels.

Tighten your chain up before you start; this prevents the tooth from wobbling while you follow Gypo's clear instructions.

As the tooth size decreases with every sharpening, there's a point where you'll want to decrease the diameter of your file about a 64th, from 13/64 down to 12/64 or, least commonly denominatored, 3/16". I'd do this about half way through the chain's life.

As far as the filing jig, I would skip it. It's very easy to sharpen a chain properly with just the file and a handle. Take that money you'd have otherwise spent, have a handy swivel vise mounted onto your chipper, and buy a bunch of files to have on hand. Files have a rather short working life, especially if you're sharpening a chain that's been dulled via hitting the dirt.

 

[Drew78]

The vise sounds like a good idea. I actually have a vise that has an adjustment for turing it. Tighten the chain up on the bar so it reduces the 'wobble' and go at it with a round file, nice and ease, gentle consistant pressure, a stroke or two.... Sounds like I am going to have some fun!

he he

Anyway so I have one more ignorant question. What is the gullett, and how do you clean it out, and how do you know when you need to clean it?

Thanks-
Drew

 

[Drew78]

Did some research and if I am correct, gullets only from when square sharpening. So I dont have to worry about it for now...

please correct me if I am wrong

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

No, don't get worked up about the gullet cleaning yet. All you really need is a round file. A handle is nice too.
Just put the file in the cutter, match up the angles and push.
If you look close at the top of the tooth there is a little line etched into it. This is a guide to help you keep the angle the same as you cut the tooth back.
There's one on the side plate too. After you file a cutter, look and see if both index marks line up with how you filed the tooth. The top plate is not nearly as important as the side plate.
I think you will learn more about sharpening if you do it freehand, but the guides are ok.

 

[Drew78]

Thanks Mike-

I was looking at Madsen's page on files and such and noticed they dont carry the file size of 13/64" that Stihl says is the correct file size. What do you do about this?
I was going to by a couple of files, a handle, and a depth gauge tool for the rakers.

*** What is the difference between a "Carlton file- o- plate" and the "depth gauge tool" listed on Madsens website? Which one will work best for a beginner?

Thanks again
-drew

 

[geofore]

help filing

Remember the file only cuts on the forward stroke so don't drag it back through, that dulls your file out in a hurry. You can feel the difference in the stroke between dull chain and a sharp one, dull takes some effort to push the file through as it cuts the burrs off and a sharp one takes little effort to run the file through, you'll get the feel of it in time. Stick with the round, square cut is a whole different ballgame and takes more time to learn.

 

[Drew78]

Thanks Geofore-

Your tip about the feel between dull and sharp makes a lot of sense and I will pay attention to it!
I just went to my Stihl dealer and bought a file guide, and a file and handle. I am also going to order some stuff from madsens and just play around till I find a good combo that works for me.

Any more info anyone cares to share is more than welcomed!
Thanks-

Drew

 

[Sapwood]

Drew, give Jeff a call. He sell a dozen files for 8 bucks. He's got the depth guages and when your ready, get a Maxx grinder from him to even out your chain (every three or four filings its good to grind them back to same length). Good man to deal with and well respected here on AS.

http://www.snssawshop.com/

He's a lot closer to you than Madsens

Sap

 

[Greg]

I was terrible at chain sharpening until just this year. I've owned all of the little small tools including the pferd 2in 1 file, and I could never get the saw to cut straight. 2 things helped, a swivel vise like was mentioned and also the simple oregon bar mount filing jig that holds the file on the correct angle, all you need to do is push it and it will get the angle right. Now my sharpend chains cut much better than the chains I used to have the saw shop grind for me. I'v been trying to sharpen by hand for about 3 years now with MUCH frustration, I can finaly sharpen a chain!!
Greg

 

[TonyM]

Drew,

I use the kit from Stihl with the flat file guide, raker gauge tool, and raker file in the oarange plastic pouch. It works fine. I recently bought a stump vise and wish I had invested in one sooner. I tried one of those clamp on file guides and I didn't like it at all. If you want a filing jig for on the bench, take an old bar and cut it to about 10" long and clamp it in a bench vise. Just take it slow and easy, and learn the difference in appearance between a sharp and dull chain, and in no time you'll have your chains sharper than new.

 

[Drew78]

thanks Tony-

I figured I could take one of my bars and put it in the vise (can swivel) and try to hold the chain in place with some vice-grips then file. Not sure yet if that will work, I am going to thave to experiment. The sides and underside of the bar will be wrapped in a towel when put in the vice and tightened only enough to hold it still. Maybe even put my level to it to make it (the bar) is even in the vice.

Comments?

-Drew

 

[Tony Snyder]

Carlton brand chain, with the appropriate Carlton File-O-Plate makes about the simplest and most foolproof file guide arrangement available.

There may be someone on this furum that has these items, and are in a position to ship to you. I have them, but do not ship.

Otherwise you might call Sten's (1-800-457-7444) or Tilton's (1-877-584-5866)and find their closest dealers. These are both Carlton distributors.

 

[TonyM]

The reason for cutting the old bar shorter is so that the loop of chain can hang under the vise. That way you can put chains on and off the bar and flip them from one side to the next without loosening the vise. You won't need to clamp the chain to keep it still. Once you put a little pressure on it to file, it will stay put. I never set my chain break to file on the saw.