I want to improve my climbing rig

[Carburetorless]

Carby,
I think you are way too concerned about rope strength.

Yeah, I'm a strong believer in extra safety.

While the human body can, if properly supported, survive a 40G impact, a climber won't come close to surviving more than 4 or 5 G's under the best of conditions, if the rope is what catches you. The problem is the way the rope is attached to your body. The focus point of load is basicly in front of your belt buckle, and will tend to fold your body backwards during the shockload. If you have both hands up on the rope to keep your upper body from flopping back, you might be able to hang on at 4 G's and prevent a broken back. Probably not at 5 G's. If you don't have any hold on the rope, you could get a broken back pretty easy at 2 G's. A 200 lb climber at 2G's is only applying a 400 lb load to the rope. When wearing a typical climbing saddle, your body is the real weak link in the event of a fall, not the rope.

A buddy of mine dropped about 4 feet when his friction hitch slipped then reset, he ended up with a herniated disc that eventually had to be removed. He was only about 8 feet off the ground when it happened.

Move the anchor point up high on your back, and things change greatly in the body's favor. That is why FALL ARREST harnesses anchor there, or high on/over the front of the shoulders.

Yep. My harness has rings on the shoulders that are for confined space access, there's a special lifting bar that attaches to them, but I don't know if it would work well in a tree, unless I had a groundie belaying me.

I also have fall arrest on the chest and back, but I don't plan on leaving any slack in my line.

A rope with a little more stretch would help if the hitch slipped, or even a self tending rope grab, the gri gri seems to work a bit like that, but I've never tested it out.

Even a parachute that was anchored near your belt buckle would probably break your back when it opened.

A reserve sort of does that, but if it's a combat jump you don't have the time or the altitude to worry about it.

I also use and like the PI from Sherrill Tree. I use an ICE eye2eye with a Distel hitch and a micro pulley.
Long decents on figure 8, and throw a quick wrap around my leg if dropping on the hitch for more than a few feet. It keeps the knot cooler.
Rick

Does that 8 twist your rope up?

 

[tree md]

"A buddy of mine dropped about 4 feet when his friction hitch slipped then reset, he ended up with a herniated disc that eventually had to be removed. He was only about 8 feet off the ground when it happened".

This is why I recommend finding a simple hitch that you can make work well for you and stick with it until you get a little time under your belt working off of a friction hitch. Master climbing on a simple hitch before you move on to something more advanced. Sometimes it's better to know one knot really well than to know a hundred different hitches.

Believe me, I have had a close call or two with new hitches. It takes awhile to master some of them and learn how finicky they can be. Your hitch is you lifeline and connection to the ground. It requires your utmost attention.

 

[VA-Sawyer]

Carby,

Yes, the 8 can twist the rope some, but so what, they come back out pretty easy. Better than glazing the rope doing a long slide on the knot, or worse, having the knot fail due to excess melting. I've never seen it happen, but was warned about it when I was first climbing.

tree md has a very good point about keeping it simple. I don't use the VT because I think it requires too much attention from me during the climb. I don't see a problem with a newby using a split tail, as long as they know how to tie a closed system, in case they drop the split out of the tree. When starting in climbing, two lifesavers are KISS and TITS. aka Keep it Simple Stupid and Tie in Twice Stupid.
Rick

 

[jefflovstrom]

I'm considering a knut,

My uncle's name is Knut.
Jeff :msp_ohmy:

 

[ROPECLIMBER]

"A buddy of mine dropped about 4 feet when his friction hitch slipped then reset, he ended up with a herniated disc that eventually had to be removed. He was only about 8 feet off the ground when it happened".

This is why I recommend finding a simple hitch that you can make work well for you and stick with it until you get a little time under your belt working off of a friction hitch. Master climbing on a simple hitch before you move on to something more advanced. Sometimes it's better to know one knot really well than to know a hundred different hitches.

Believe me, I have had a close call or two with new hitches. It takes awhile to master some of them and learn how finicky they can be. Your hitch is you lifeline and connection to the ground. It requires your utmost attention.

This is another reason to use DRT in the canopy as when you do slip walking with slack you can half the bounce by letting line while you are falling kinda like letting a rigged log run, I have slipped and was barreling toards the trunk and by letting out rope it slowes the swing and the jolt and the angle of impact, if you have a hitch you trust and are used to then its second nature, its just opps and zzzep and back up I go some times a cigerette later, we have a lot of groups of trees with one dominate and a whole grove of smaller leanning out away it and I have to swing out on to the smaller ones,
Paul

 

[Saw Dust Smoken]

safety point

Just 10-20ft off ground and having safety issues? What are you going to do at 48,58, or 68 ft up. Some people are not safety conscious (and never will be) or attentive to changing safety hazards around them. Getting good at efficient climbing takes time.... Veteran climbers have watch new climber blunder through a climb and cringe. Some individuals should never leave the ground. It is not for everyone. If your willing to adapt fairly quickly to every changing climb conditions. You will be four steps ahead of the climbers in safety and efficient climbing. Carb for the fastest learning of hitches, mechanical gear, tree ascent, and work progress in tree. Find some veteran climbers to watch, work or hang out with. The learning curve will be much quicker! Four ft slip?
Have WesSpur Tree Gear and Arborist Supplies and sherrilltree.com send you a catalog. INfo on up to date ropes and equipment.

 

[Fireaxman]

.... Have WesSpur Tree Gear and Arborist Supplies and sherrilltree.com send you a catalog. INfo on up to date ropes and equipment.

OK, I can go with the recomendation on Ivy. Got 400 feet of it in fact. Good rope. I'm still buying Blaze next time, but I respect Tree MD and the other's opinions, Tree MD has a LOT more experience than I have, and the Ivy's larger diameter and greater tensile strength might increase your confidence in it. Have you got the Latest and Greatest Sherrill or Wesspur catalog as Saw Dust suggested? I guess I just assumed you have. Here's Sherrills comparison between Blaze and Ivy:

Blaze 11mm, 6#/ft, milks a little, 5600# tensile, Polyester Double Braid, Knotability Excellent (10), Hand Spliceable, 2.2% stretch @ 540#, Roundness ubder Load Excellent (10), surface texture smooth (10), 0 wax content, suitable for double or single rope climbing.
$104.95 for 120 feet.

Ivy 11.7 mm, 6.5#/ft, milks a little, 6500# tensile, Polyester Double Braid, Knotability excellent (10), Hand Sliceable, 1.8% stretch at 540#, Roundness 10, smoothness 10, wax content 0, suitable for double or single rope climbing. $118.95 for 120 feet.

You see how similar they are. In fact, Ivy was designed on Blaze as a prototype. Blaze is a little more descender freindly since some descenders are designed for 9 to 11 mm ropes, but my STOP (a 9 to 11 mm descender) works fine on the Ivy. Ivy is a little more DdRT freindly because of the larger diameter (easier to pull by hand), but the Blaze takes friction hitches well and climbs well DdRT. A good freind of mine remarked to me today that the reason my Blaze seems to have a harder sheath than my Ivy might be because my Blaze has been worked so hard for so long that it has just tightened up to the core. That could be very true. I'll find out when I compare it to the new hank.

Bottom Line - get the Ivy, seeing your posts I think you will feel better about it and you will not regret your choice. Forget FootSloggers. Go to Sherrill or Wesspur or Tree Stuff and get yourself some Ivy from their freindly, knowledgable staff.

HTP, by the way, although I think we are all agreed it is not the rope for you, is smaller, lighter, knotability poor (4), 0.63% stretch, and suitable ONLY for SRT. Certainly is wonderful for SRT, but definetly a specialty rope, NOT general purpose.

Just one other thing. I have seen others mention, and I believe, get a good, confident hand on DdRT before you get too involved in SRT. DdRT is safer because it requires a lower level of expertise to operate safely, no changeover ascender to descender, it is more forgiving in a fall if you get slack in your lines (more elasticity), easier to belay, and easier to Rescue. Its just harder work in a long climb.

SRT is Great, far more energy efficient, but it is more expensive in terms of equipment and requires a greater level of expertiece. I encourage everyone who climbs to develop SRT skills, but Only after they have Mastered DdRT.

 

[Carburetorless]

OK, I can go with the recomendation on Ivy. Got 400 feet of it in fact. Good rope. I'm still buying Blaze next time, but I respect Tree MD and the other's opinions, Tree MD has a LOT more experience than I have, and the Ivy's larger diameter and greater tensile strength might increase your confidence in it. Have you got the Latest and Greatest Sherrill or Wesspur catalog as Saw Dust suggested? I guess I just assumed you have. Here's Sherrills comparison between Blaze and Ivy:

I'm almost sold on Ivy, and Velocity, if I could find it in a shop somewhere I'd probably buy then and there.

You see how similar they are. In fact, Ivy was designed on Blaze as a prototype. Blaze is a little more descender freindly since some descenders are designed for 9 to 11 mm ropes, but my STOP (a 9 to 11 mm descender) works fine on the Ivy. Ivy is a little more DdRT freindly because of the larger diameter (easier to pull by hand), but the Blaze takes friction hitches well and climbs well DdRT. A good freind of mine remarked to me today that the reason my Blaze seems to have a harder sheath than my Ivy might be because my Blaze has been worked so hard for so long that it has just tightened up to the core. That could be very true. I'll find out when I compare it to the new hank.

Is it true that the STOP doesn't actually stop, but creeps unless you tie it off?

Bottom Line - get the Ivy, seeing your posts I think you will feel better about it and you will not regret your choice. Forget FootSloggers. Go to Sherrill or Wesspur or Tree Stuff and get yourself some Ivy from their freindly, knowledgable staff.

I called FootSloggers, most of their stuff is dynamic, and largest diameter line they had was 8mm.

HTP, by the way, although I think we are all agreed it is not the rope for you, is smaller, lighter, knotability poor (4), 0.63% stretch, and suitable ONLY for SRT. Certainly is wonderful for SRT, but definetly a specialty rope, NOT general purpose.

The HTP I'm getting, but it's for window drops and will be backed up by a rope grab on a dynamic safety line. I'll prolly use a rappel rack on the HTP.

Just one other thing. I have seen others mention, and I believe, get a good, confident hand on DdRT before you get too involved in SRT. DdRT is safer because it requires a lower level of expertise to operate safely, no changeover ascender to descender, it is more forgiving in a fall if you get slack in your lines (more elasticity), easier to belay, and easier to Rescue. Its just harder work in a long climb.

SRT is Great, far more energy efficient, but it is more expensive in terms of equipment and requires a greater level of expertiece. I encourage everyone who climbs to develop SRT skills, but Only after they have Mastered DdRT.

I've never tried this, but I'm thinking of combining DdRT and Rope Walker Ascenders to see if I can run up the rope. :msp_thumbup:

 

[TreeAce]

Just an FYI...posion ivy and bluemoon are the same rope just a different color. I def like it. alot.

 

[VA-Sawyer]

Carby,

Just where in VA are you ? You say that there are no Vermeer stores close enough. There is one just north of Richmond and another in Knoxville,TN. I have been in both stores and they had fair stocks of climbing gear.
If you are only 4 hrs away from Greensboro,NC, then I would suggest the Vermeer store in Colfax, NC. They have a climber on staff ( Brian ) and hanging ropes that you can try out gear on.
If you want to learn TREE climbing, then get the heck out of the ROCK climbing stores.

Rick

 

[tree md]

If you're close to Greensboro, a trip to American Chainsaw in Atlanta may be in order if you cannot find anything closer... They have everything your heart desires.

 

[Carburetorless]

Carby,

Just where in VA are you ? You say that there are no Vermeer stores close enough. There is one just north of Richmond and another in Knoxville,TN. I have been in both stores and they had fair stocks of climbing gear.
If you are only 4 hrs away from Greensboro,NC, then I would suggest the Vermeer store in Colfax, NC. They have a climber on staff ( Brian ) and hanging ropes that you can try out gear on.
If you want to learn TREE climbing, then get the heck out of the ROCK climbing stores.

Rick

I'm in the western part of the state.

When I did the Vermeer dealer look up the closest listing that came up was the one near Richmond, about 7 or 8 hours if I drive fast.

Is that Vermeer Mid Atlantic, up near Kernsville/Winston Salem?

Hanging ropes to try out gear on, that's exactly what I'm looking for!

I will definitely look them up.

Thanks man

 

[Fireaxman]

"Is it true that the STOP doesn't actually stop, but creeps unless you tie it off?"

Yes. It is True. But it doesn't creep much, very slowly, and it is very easy to lock off. Very smooth descent device, not as critical on the "Sweet Spot" as I'D or GrisGris, smaller than the I'd, dissipates heat well, does not twist the rope, and you dont have to take it off the caribiner to put it on the rope (less danger of dropping it). Its about $110 to $125 as opposed to $235 for an I'D. Guess ya pays ya money Not to take ya chances. I prefer the I'D for working on SRT, but the STOP sure makes a smooth, fast ride to the ground on HTP when climbing for Recreation. I use it mostly for taking the heat off my split tail on long DdRT descents and as a backup descender for SRT in case I drop my I'D when transitioning off of ascenders.

I dont usually work off of it, because of the creep, but again - it is very easy to lock it off.

 

[Carburetorless]

Carby,
If you are only 4 hrs away from Greensboro,NC, then I would suggest the Vermeer store in Colfax, NC. They have a climber on staff ( Brian ) and hanging ropes that you can try out gear on.

Rick

I called Vermeer Mid Atlantic.

They have 1 rope hanging that you can hang on to try out a saddle.

They do have rope in stock(Samson, and New England), no PI :msp_sad:, and nothing from Sterling.:msp_sad:

Samson and New England must be mortal enemies with Sterling and Yale, cause you never find them all in the same place at the same time.

I think I'd be better off buying a few feet of every rope and do my own testing.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

I don't think sterling makes arborist rope

 

[Carburetorless]

I don't think sterling makes arborist rope

No, they make rope access/rescue type ropes like HTP and SuperStatic, and dynamic ropes.

I hear a lot of good things about it.

The consensus seems to be that it's a great rope for what it is.

I'd would like to find a place to stocks all the major brands, and is set up to allow people to try them all. I mean if I can buy 10' of each rope and set it up on a beam at home, surely a major outlet can do it. Auto dealers let you test drive their vehicles, but ask to hang on a $100 rope and they act like you kicked them in the knee.

I called SherrillTree, they're going to send me 2' samples of PI/PHI, Hi-Vee,Lava, BlueStreak, and Vortex.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

You will never know if you like a rope by hanging on it at the store. You need to work it and brake it in. Just buy a arborsite rope and learn drt first before you go srt. You asked everyones opinion and you just keep doig what you want anyway. Why did you bother asking? Are you aerial mason? Just do like everyone else on here and buy a rope, and after using it a while, if you don't like it get another one. Stop wasting your time and ours with rappel rope.

 

[Carburetorless]

You will never know if you like a rope by hanging on it at the store. You need to work it and brake it in. Just buy a arborsite rope and learn drt first before you go srt. You asked everyones opinion and you just keep doig what you want anyway. Why did you bother asking? Are you aerial mason? Just do like everyone else on here and buy a rope, and after using it a while, if you don't like it get another one. Stop wasting your time and ours with rappel rope.

If you choose to reply in such a manner then you're the only one wasting YOUR time. :cool2:

Who in the world is Aerial Mason? :alien2:

 

[Toddppm]

You will never know if you like a rope by hanging on it at the store. You need to work it and brake it in. Just buy a arborsite rope and learn drt first before you go srt. You asked everyones opinion and you just keep doig what you want anyway. Why did you bother asking? Are you aerial mason? Just do like everyone else on here and buy a rope, and after using it a while, if you don't like it get another one. Stop wasting your time and ours with rappel rope.

Very good diagnosis, all the same symptoms. Either he is or has the same disease.

 

[Carburetorless]

Very good diagnosis, all the same symptoms. Either he is or has the same disease.

I'm not Ariel Mason. I don't know Ariel Mason, and I don't know who Ariel Mason is.

I don't have a disease either.

Actually I starting to think that you have a disease. :msp_biggrin: