ID this odd little tool

[Brmorgan]

I stopped by the dropoff bin at the side of the road by the scrap metal yard on the way home today, and among a couple half-broken parts for some unknown Mac chainsaw, I found this little gem:

I've never seen anything like that. The "chisel" bit is a 60° double bevel, and it still has a perfect original edge. Actually I'm not sure this thing's ever been used at all; it's immaculate other than some minor oxidizing on the bit and the (what appears to be) zinc handle. The bits have a 1/4" shank and are held by a very small set screw. I should also note that the handle spins free from the "chuck" portion - it fits quite comfortably if I rest the handle against the underside of the first segment of my index finger, and then use my middle finger and thumb to twist it. Though I have no idea what the practical application of such would be with a chisel bit like this!

Even though I haven't the foggiest idea what this is for, it's my new little prize. I love small odd hand tools like this.

 

[Old Hilly]

It's a "lining" tool used in leatherwork. You hold it vertically between thumb and second finger with your index finger in the U-shaped bit at the top of the tool. This lets you cut a line in the leather, then you can stamp patterns that have a distinct border. If you ever get good at it you can earn good money. I never got that good at it. The reason you hold the tool vertical is so you can make complex curved cuts without stops and starts, just one neat line.
Good find.
Dennis.

 

[Brmorgan]

Thanks. That makes perfect sense being that I live in one of the biggest ranching areas on the continent! There's a lot of leather in this town!

Whaddya know, this site is good for more than just chainsaws!

 

[mtngun]

That makes perfect sense being that I live in one of the biggest ranching areas on the continent!

I'd never thought of BC as ranching country until I read Rich Hobson's Grass Beyond the Mountains and his other two books telling the story of how he and his partner, Pan Phillips, created the biggest ranch in the world at that time, some 4 million acres.

Congrats on the new tool, and glad to hear that you are working again. Hope you'll still have time to do some milling.

 

[stipes]

I found alot of stuff...

In my Grandpa's barn where I had to ask people what it was used for...This one item...It has a round steel ball on the end and a handle....Noone cant figure what that was used for...

 

[Brmorgan]

I'd never thought of BC as ranching country until I read Rich Hobson's Grass Beyond the Mountains and his other two books telling the story of how he and his partner, Pan Phillips, created the biggest ranch in the world at that time, some 4 million acres.

Congrats on the new tool, and glad to hear that you are working again. Hope you'll still have time to do some milling.

Yep, I've read all those books; it's amazing country but not forgiving or for the weak-willed. I've talked to a few old-timers that can remember the last cattle drive that Pan brought into Quesnel (an hour to the north) back in the 50s. FWIW if you're interested, type "Pan Phillips airport" or "Tzetzi Lake" into the "fly to" box in Google Earth and it'll take you to the location of the Hobson/Phillips "Home Ranch". Zoom out a bit and check out the huge natural meadows in the surrounding area - especially south and west.

If you want some real cattle stories, start reading about the cattle drives that brought beef up to Barkerville during the 1860s gold rush and afterwards:

That photo is purportedly from 1880. They drove them all the way north from Texas at least once that I've read about. Can you imagine? More commonly they made regular shorter runs from Washington and Oregon. Even these "short" drives took the better part of a quarter year. The town I live in (Williams Lake) actually started out as a giant stockyard - the cattle drivers would bring them here, and then wait for demand in the gold fields to peak so they could sell them at top dollar. Beef was going for up to $2/lb then! Today I can drive to Barkerville in 2 hours; back then it was many days on horseback without cows in tow, so even that length of drive was no mean feat, especially considering the terrain. Interestingly, these cattle drives built the original rudimentary infrastructure of BC - the colonial government at the time levied a tax on all cattle crossing the border in order to pay for construction of the wagon road up here to the gold fields.

Since you've read the aforementioned books, I should ask if you've read one called "Three Against The Wilderness". There's an overview of it HERE. My dad was required to read this book when he was in high school in the early 70s. And oddly enough, nearly 40 years later, it's come full circle for him. The son in the book, Veasy (I know, strange name) is now a customer of my brother's yard care business, so we got to talk to him almost every week all summer long. Sat and listened to stories after getting the work taken care of almost every time. The guy's forgotten more than I'll ever know, I'm sure.

If you haven't read that book and it sounds like something you might be interested in and can't find, I have a copy I could loan & mail to you.

 

[mtngun]

No, I haven't read Three Against the Wilderness and yes, it sounds like the kind of story I love, so I'll order it tonight. Thanks for the kind offer but I can buy it for not much more than it would cost you to mail it, so I might as well get my own copy. There is no library where I live but we buy paperbacks and pass them around from neighbor to neighbor.

I normally am not "into" ranching, I'm surrounded by it, and there's no love between the open range ranchers and everyone else, but Rich was a great story teller and once I got started, I couldn't put it down and even paid through the nose for his last book The Rancher Takes a Wife which has been out of print for some time.

The land Rich described sounds a lot like the place I live, except Idaho is not as cold, and we have ponderosa instead of jack pine. One rancher here owns most of the county and the other "little" ranches are in the 15,000 acre range. The nearest village (gas station, post office, and small grocery) is 1 1/2 hour drive and about 8000 feet of elevation change crossing the Salmon river canyon on a one lane switchbacked logging "road."

 

[Brmorgan]

I've been through Idaho and Montana, and while it was years ago and I was only something like 9 years old, I do remember it as being quite similar to the territory west of here. A fair bit more open space in S. Idaho and a lot of Montana though; more like the Okanagan valley. I found this video on Youtube of some guys making the journey into the Home Ranch, so you can see what that territory looks like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25XAJbzwJo

You don't have Lodgepole Pine where you're at? That's what Rich was referring to; they're similar to though larger than Jackpine, which are pretty much only found east of the Rockies.

I'm not "into" the whole ranching/cowboy thing either even though I'm surrounded by it. In fact I can't think of a much worse lifestyle for me. Getting up insanely early and dealing with some of the most horrible smells all day... Ugh. I'm glad some people love it, but it's not me. However I am fascinated by the whole homesteading in the middle of nowhere thing though. Especially now, since with modern travel I can visit many of these old historical sites in a daytrip. I've found some really neat and unexpected things down backroads out in the boonies.

Also, not sure if you were aware, but the CBC up here produced a drama TV show (rather loosely) based on Hobson's books called "Nothing Too Good For A Cowboy". Sarah Chalke of "Roseanne" and "Scrubs" was in it. It ran a couple or three years, I think, probably 10 years ago. No idea if it was ever released on DVD.

Oh, and another story you may be interested in:

http://www.abcbookworld.com/view_author.php?id=5591

http://www.amazon.ca/Klondike-Cattl...6311956?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263362418&sr=1-1

That journey started about an hour's drive west of here. One of the most epic failures of all time though! I've not read that book, I just know the basic details of the whole affair.

 

[Ted J]

It's a "lining" tool used in leatherwork. You hold it vertically between thumb and second finger with your index finger in the U-shaped bit at the top of the tool. This lets you cut a line in the leather, then you can stamp patterns that have a distinct border. If you ever get good at it you can earn good money. I never got that good at it. The reason you hold the tool vertical is so you can make complex curved cuts without stops and starts, just one neat line.
Good find.
Dennis.

Also known as a Swivel Knife.

 

[mtngun]

You don't have Lodgepole Pine where you're at? That's what Rich was referring to; they're similar to though larger than Jackpine, which are pretty much only found east of the Rockies.

Ah, I wondered what Rich meant by "jack pine."

No, no lodgepole on my mountain. I'm not smart enough to tell you why it doesn't grow here, perhaps because of the clay soil, or perhaps because wildfires used to be rare in N. Idaho though that has changed with the climate and Smokey the bear. About 60% ponderosa, 30% white/grand fir, 10% doug, and a sprinkling of tamarack (larch).

Idaho is hard to nail down, we have everything from sand dunes to coastal rain forest (up by Glacier park).

I've seen the DVD based on Rich's story. It deviated from the original story quite a bit and completely missed Rich's dry humor and Pan's shenanigans. But, I understand that Pan and Rich (and Rich's horse) are legendary heroes in BC, similar to Davy Crockett or James Bowie in the states ?

 

[Old Hilly]

Thanks Ted, "swivel knife" is probably the right name for that neat little tool. It's a lot of years since I did any leatherwork, the cost of (good) leather was too high and the return was way too low for the time it took to make something nice. With all the restrictions on firearms down here in OZ there is little market for holsters and gunbelts and there are limits to the number of ladies handbags and mens wallets you can sell.
Thanks for jogging my memory on that knife,
Dennis.

 

[Ted J]

Thanks Ted, "swivel knife" is probably the right name for that neat little tool. It's a lot of years since I did any leatherwork, the cost of (good) leather was too high and the return was way too low for the time it took to make something nice. With all the restrictions on firearms down here in OZ there is little market for holsters and gunbelts and there are limits to the number of ladies handbags and mens wallets you can sell.
Thanks for jogging my memory on that knife,
Dennis.

Okay Dennis... I'm gonna bite!

Why would they have limits on selling handbags and wallets?
Ted

 

[Old Hilly]

Well Ted, the animal rights people are worried about all these naked cows wandering around. If we keep using their coats to make handbags and such, they will either get sunburned, frozen almost to death and could also be an embarasment to lady farmers:censored:
Dennis.

 

[Ted J]

Well Ted, the animal rights people are worried about all these naked cows wandering around. If we keep using their coats to make handbags and such, they will either get sunburned, frozen almost to death and could also be an embarasment to lady farmers:censored:
Dennis.

Well Dennis.... HERE IN TEXAS... we don't give the cattle time to know they're nekked.....

BEEF... It's what for dinner!... and sometimes for breakfast, and most times lunch too. :biggrinbounce2:

 

[Old Hilly]

Now Ted, this really has nothing to do with sawmills but it does have a bit to do with trees and cows......
Our valiant and visionary Prime Minister, the Right Honourable Kevin Rudd, rekons that cows are one of the largest producers of methane gas that is causing all this Global Warming. He made no mention of Termites, which produce more Methane than cows but are not so readily edible.
Mr. KRudd seems to think it would be a really good idea if he were to tax the ass/donkey/mule off (cow) farmers so that they would grow less cows and sheep and then grow more strange green leafy vegetables and stuff, thus reducing greenhouse gasses and raising lots of revenue. So far we have yet to hear about a levy on Termite colonies but there is going to be some form of inducement to grow more trees. This will, in turn, produce more food for Termites, vastly increasing their numbers and Methane emissions.
Would there be a market in Texas for prime Australian Termite Burgers?
Dennis

 

[Ted J]

Now Ted, this really has nothing to do with sawmills but it does have a bit to do with trees and cows......
Our valiant and visionary Prime Minister, the Right Honourable Kevin Rudd, rekons that cows are one of the largest producers of methane gas that is causing all this Global Warming. He made no mention of Termites, which produce more Methane than cows but are not so readily edible.
Mr. KRudd seems to think it would be a really good idea if he were to tax the ass/donkey/mule off (cow) farmers so that they would grow less cows and sheep and then grow more strange green leafy vegetables and stuff, thus reducing greenhouse gasses and raising lots of revenue. So far we have yet to hear about a levy on Termite colonies but there is going to be some form of inducement to grow more trees. This will, in turn, produce more food for Termites, vastly increasing their numbers and Methane emissions.
Would there be a market in Texas for prime Australian Termite Burgers?
Dennis

No, I don't think so....... but if you ship it to France, where they'll eat anything, or they'll figure out some way to make it a delicacy for the tourist's.

I'm just glad our fireant mounds aren't as big as those termite mounds ya got down under.

Ted

 

[Old Hilly]

Crushed, watered and compacted termite mound sets like concrete. If you polish it with a mixture of kerosene and bee's wax it almost looks like cork. I stayed in an old boundary-rider's hut 40+ years ago and the floor was termite mound that had been well cared-for. It certainly was a suprise for a teenager from the city but it made a lasting impression on me.
What are Fire ants? There are rumours that they are now in parts of Brisbane, near the docks and that they came as stow-aways from somewhere in South America. Aparently they are a major problem?
Aaah yes, the French. I had forgotten all about them and their love of exotic foods. Termite burgers should go down well with the frog's legs and snail soup.
Bon apetit et bon chance,
Dennis.

 

[billstuewe]

Fire ants are nothing more than little brown ants that build mounds, particularly after rains, that can reach over a foot high and 2 feet across. Just your shadow passing over the mound will send the whole colony into a frenzy and the vibrations of stepping next to the mound, kicking into it, weedeating or chainsawing next to it, etc. are enough to sent them into swarming madness. Even when out foraging, if they happen upon human flesh, they emediatly latch on and start stinging, They have been know to cover a child with literally hundred of stings within relatively few seconds of a toddler stumbling into them. their name arises from the firey sensation of their sting and the next day each sting results in a blister like pustule that lasts about a week. They can also literally wipe out small game populations such as quail by devouring the chicks as they hatch.
Nastys!

 

[Brmorgan]

We don't have fire ants up here, but we do have fairly good-sized red and black ants that can build some pretty big mounds; I've seen some 3' dia. and a couple feet high, and if you hold your hand close overtop of one for a few seconds it'll smell like vinegar afterwards. Their bites hurt but aren't inflammatory or anything, unless maybe you have an allergy.

 

[Old Hilly]

Hmmmmmm, it sounds like a discrete aplication of 1/2 gallon of gasoline to the entrance of the nest would at least upset the little buggers and perhaps encourage them to either leave or just plain die!
They sound like really nasty little critters. No wonder the QLD. Govt. is worried about the bloody things!
Dennis.