IDEM Proposed regs for outdoor hydronic heaters

[coppersnowblue]

CB sent me a letter that I received yesterday telling me the Indiana Department of Environmental Management(IDEM) has proposed regs for OWB.

-IDEM proposed that hydronic heaters that do not meet the Phase 2 emissions limit (0.32 lbs/million Btu heat output) must install a chimney to "extend at least five (5) feet higher than the peak of any roof structure: (1) located within one hundred fifty (150) feet of unit; and (2) not located on the same property on which the heater is installed."
-The IDEM is proposing that existing furnace owners comply with requirements that DID NOT exist when consumers purchased their OWB.
-The chimney height requirements should only be applied to the 41 appliances that have been documented, in the last 8.5 years by IDEM, as creating a nuisance for neighbors.

-IDEM proposed a seasonal prohibition that states, "No person shall operate an outdoor hydronic heater from May 1 to Sept. 30 unless the outdoor hydronic heater has been certified...to meet the Phase 2 emission limit" no matter where an owner lives.
-Even furnace owners who heat rural homes and businesses, farming operations, greenhouse operations, and people who live on their own wood lots will have to meet excessive seasonal prohibition.

(d) No person shall cause or allow the emission of a smoke plume from a outdoor hydronic heater to exceed an average of twenty percent (20%) opacity..."
- Opacity is subjective visual observation. Opacity was designed for large industrial emission sources. Many factors can make opacity observation virtually impossible to conduct, even for certified observers. A homeowner should not be expected to conduct their own opacity readings.

The entire public notice is available here: http://www.in.gov/legislative/iac/20100106-IR-326050332SNA.xml.pdf.

 

[blades]

No not reasonable, Applying industrial limits to home owners in the more rural areas? Granted that OWB do need some regs to clean them up some, But a visual standard for opacity leaves way to much room for interpretation. Sounds more like a way to backdoor legislation to ban them to me. Kinda like telling a farmer that he can not spread fertilizer because it can be smelled at xyz distance and offends the yuppie that built a house 2 blocks away. Some sort of standardized testing similar to the stoves would be advisable.

 

[leon]

stack emmisions

Sounds like I better start building and selling my water scrubbers qiuickly to eliminate the issue period.


I am sure the sight of water vapor exiting a stack would be the preferred exhaust as it will have nothing but steam vapor in it.



leon

 

[Taxmantoo]

The part about the stack requirement concentrating on those with neighboring buildings within 50 yards is good, keeps the rural property owners out of it, but why should the other parts of the proposal include those who have no neighbors?

 

[Circle B MN]

The majority of the proposal is common sense. It is also common sense not to burn green wood in your boiler, or place it where it will be a problem. People should have sense enough to regulate themselves, which at times is lacking. The abusive owners of OWB's have created an image that is cast unfairly on other owners.

 

[ray benson]

The part about the stack requirement concentrating on those with neighboring buildings within 50 yards is good, keeps the rural property owners out of it, but why should the other parts of the proposal include those who have no neighbors?

Maybe for the rural family's own safety.

 

[Circle B MN]

Maybe for the rural family's own safety.

Lord de be..thanx you missa guberment fo wachin out fo us.....

 

[carpenter383]

I don't see how they will be able to enforce this law very easilly
They might check up on people who got a permit for their owb, other than that they'll be counting on nosy neighbors to call in on owb owners.

 

[Firechief]

I received the same letter from CB
I think they'll hopefully have a big fight on their hands from the existing OWB owners that bought their units when no restrictions were in place. Whatever happened to "grandfathering" Luckily I have a CB E-Classic 2300 that meets EPA Phase 2. I'm still going to send the pre printed letter in the envelope to the State of Indiana trying to protect those that are already operating.

 

[KsWoodsMan]

Good for ya ! somebody needs to stick up for the guy that didn't elect some of those people into office.

 

[Penguins87]

Maybe CB looking to promote sales of their E Classics

 

[headleyj]

-IDEM proposed a seasonal prohibition that states, "No person shall operate an outdoor hydronic heater from May 1 to Sept. 30 unless the outdoor hydronic heater has been certified...to meet the Phase 2 emission limit" no matter where an owner lives.
-Even furnace owners who heat rural homes and businesses, farming operations, greenhouse operations, and people who live on their own wood lots will have to meet excessive seasonal prohibition.

QUOTE]

This is the part that REALLY rubs me wrong.....it just seems like each time we the people find a way to save $ and do things ourselves, gov't keeps trying to find ways to undo those efforts. I agree that one should not put an OWB in a residential neighborhood, but if I own adequete acerage (I know, I know...define "adequete") where I would not "impose" on my neighbors, then, why?? argh.....just frustrating.

It will be interesting to follow this. Unfortunately I think some form of this legislation will eventually pass - there's probably more lobbying bodies on the side of regulation than against it or interested in finding a common ground.

 

[Curlycherry1]

The majority of the proposal is common sense. It is also common sense not to burn green wood in your boiler, or place it where it will be a problem. People should have sense enough to regulate themselves, which at times is lacking. The abusive owners of OWB's have created an image that is cast unfairly on other owners.

This is exactly where the rub is. We have lots of folks that say keep the govment out of my business and then they go and do stupid stuff like burning wet junk. Then they scream when the govment comes in and slaps them. People say they can take care of themselves but unfortunately dumb people prove over and over again that they cannot, or that they are a nusance to those around them.

I got a guy near me (farmer) that burns complete junk wood thrown into a big heap and wet as it possibly can get.

 

[coppersnowblue]

The sad thing is I was in a small city in my county and drove thru a plume of nasty smoke coming from an OWB that the owner of was obviously burning trash or something else he shouldn't have across the street from Kroger and a strip mall. This kind of irresponsible activity will eventually ruin it for us all. After looking thru the public comments there are people calling for a complete ban on OWB's and how can you blame them with a clown like that out there. I live in a rural area without any neighbors within a half mile and still would not consider burning something that would jeopardize the future use of my OWB.

 

[smus]

Not knowing how the whole process works, whay can be done to stop this kind of crap from becoming a reality? You can bet if it goes forward in In diana, it will be moved to other areas of the country.
I don't see how they can mandate changes to existing units. I thought that would be an ex post facto law. I think we have more than enough Gov as it is.
The next thing to come about will be fart regulation.

 

[laynes69]

Its happening all over. Not just there but in PA and other states. Many areas have banned OWB's. They won't stop there, eventually it will trickle down to units that are Exempt to EPA regulations including stoves, boilers and furnaces. The time is coming, but when is the question?? That was one of the reasons for me making my choice on what I was going to buy. I would hate to purchase something and in a year or two have them tell me I had to remove them. In areas where there are few people and the operators are responsible I don't see it as a bad thing. There are small towns around here where they have them in the middle surrounded by many homes. To me that improves the chances of pissing someone off when it goes into idle or during reload when its smoking. I do think they need to improve the efficiency of the units, making something that heats with less wood and less smoke would be a good thing. Just unfortunate for those who have already made the purchase. I could see it as frustrating. People might be able to prolong the bans, but eventually EPA will have their way.

 

[boyland]

typical government BS.

I am sorry but I have burned wood my entire life and helluva lot more smoked used to come out of my chimney in my house than the boiler.

I do not burn trash i do burn wood that is stored outside and maybe wet. But after 15-20 minutes I see little smoke if any.

My boiler is no closer than 250 foot to a neighbor and I run year around.

I will run year around until they come and take it from my property... http://www.arboristsite.com/images/smilies/chainsaw.gif

 

[Storm56]

I live in PA and we are fighting a similar battle. You need to do a bit of organizing and get in touch with your state reps. I am on record in other posts here as agreeing that not everyone has a location suitable for an OWB, however for those that do, this type of regulation is excessive and intrusive.

I have no problem with some common sense type of regs, but this type of broad sweeping legislation is simply unacceptable. Start lobbying your reps now before it gets too much of a hold and see if it can be squashed now.

And do not think for a minute if you have an indoor stove that you are safe. These people just will not stop. Give in to this and tomorrow they want that.

 

[atlarge54]

This rule is basically a ban on OWB's though not a total ban it doesn't miss it by much. There are easily a dozen units within a mile or two that just couldn't realistically be upgraded to comply. How do you get a chimney 5' above a nearby barn? How could you clean it if you did?
This could get pretty hairy before it's over. It seems a little more than allowing to operate until sept 2011 would be appropriate. A lot of these units are relatively new. Will big brother be giving a cash for clunkers (boilers)? Even a minimum 5 year grandfather clause wouldn't set well with me.
Less than 50 complaints in 8.5 years. I'm betting these rules will be modified and or delayed.

 

[TonyK]

Similar story going on here in Vermont. From the local paper today.

BURLINGTON — A state lawmaker wants to help Vermonters replace inefficient and dirty outdoor wood-fired boilers.
The Burlington Free Press says one outdoor wood boiler creates as much air pollution as 1,000 oil furnaces and that emissions can trigger asthma attacks and possibly other health problems.
Sen. Ginny Lyons has introduced a bill to help buy back some of the boilers using some of the $360,000 a year Vermont will receive for three years from a settlement of an air pollution lawsuit.
Lyons’ bill would require that all old furnaces to be phased out by 2016.