Interesting different oil/ratio observation today

[bwalker]

I often add 1 gallon of Lucas diesel fuel additive (I think it's castor oil-based) to 80 gallons of gasoline to feed my Chevy 350 marine engine (raw-water cooled) to keep the TBI injector happy, especially when using gasohol which I normally try to avoid,
Never noticed any change in the way that runs, either. I figure it can't hurt, might help, and might prevent a long walk home.

I can guarantee it's not castor oil. If it was it would make your moisture issues worse, not better.
But a 4 cycle will digest mixed fuel just fine and for years.

 

[bwalker]

I dump my old 2 stroke mix in whatever 4 stroke that's close at hand weed whacker or other wise they run just fine. that's e-10 as well.

I do the same. But it gets dumped in my Tacoma.

 

[slimbo3006]

I dump my old 2 stroke mix in whatever 4 stroke that's close at hand weed whacker or other wise they run just fine. that's e-10 as well.

I have done this for years with my zero-turn lawnmower. only ill effect is it is a little harder to start when cold with the mix fuel. but it does have that nice 2 stroke smell at first start lol.

 

[slimbo3006]

So I might have a little chance to go play with this some more this afternoon. I only have 2 marine 2-cyle oils here. the XD100 and Amsoil Marine.

thinking about trying the same thing with both oils at 50:1 - 40:1 - and 32:1. or maybe just 50:1 - 45:1 - and 40:1 since those seem to be more common... Thats all the cans I have available......

any other suggestions or thoughs? I'll keep it updated if I get a chance to get on the water this afternoon

 

[Tomos770]

I have done this for years with my zero-turn lawnmower. only ill effect is it is a little harder to start when cold with the mix fuel. but it does have that nice 2 stroke smell at first start lol.

Adjust its valve clarences.....that will resolve hard starts when cold...

 

[ericm979]

I dump my old 2 stroke mix in whatever 4 stroke that's close at hand weed whacker or other wise they run just fine. that's e-10 as well.

I pick a small engine for that rather than dumping it in the truck with its EFI and O2 sensors. But same here, I have had zero problems with it.

It's really common for people racing smaller two stroke motorcycles on larger tracks to see small RPM gains on the straights from small jetting changes like changing the main jet a step. Remember the engine is working against a heavy load of air resistance, or water resistance in the case of the boat, so it takes some additional power to raise the rpm a few hundred.

 

[bwalker]

I pick a small engine for that rather than dumping it in the truck with its EFI and O2 sensors. But same here, I have had zero problems with it.

It's really common for people racing smaller two stroke motorcycles on larger tracks to see small RPM gains on the straights from small jetting changes like changing the main jet a step. Remember the engine is working against a heavy load of air resistance, or water resistance in the case of the boat, so it takes some additional power to raise the rpm a few hundred.

One main jet size is a much larger change than the change in ratio mentioned.

 

[slimbo3006]

So I worked some long days earlier this week so decided to take a short one today. I took the boat back out on the water to try a few things and I got more expected results this time.

so here is what I did.

I mixed up some cans with Amsoil HP Marine at 50:1 - 40:1 - and 32:1
I also mixed up the Evinrude XD100 at the same ratios.
I filled each can with 1 gallon (measured from the pump) of 89 octane ethanol-free. I then added the required oil (measured with a syringe). I gave it a few hours to evenly disperse and off to the boat ramp..



So I went to the same stretch of creek. it is a mile or so long. Had a very slight cross breeze but nothing noteworthy.

I started out by running for a while just to ensure that the motor was warm.
I would then make a run about 1/2 mile up the creek holding the throttle at WOT I would document the speed and AVG rpm. (yes the RPM would occasionally bounce by 20 or so, so I just took the AVG or what it tended to hold the most.)
When I get to the end, I would change over to another container and run back down to the starting point. This would ensure that the new fuel made it all the way to the carb and was being burned. ( I dropped the line out on one of the tests and it ran out of fuel less than halfway back so I know the distance was sufficient to change the fuel out.)
Once back to the starting point, I would sit there at idle for 30 seconds just to let my wake dissipate and then I would make the run again.

Here is what I come up with.

Amsoil 50:1 - 5840rpm 21mph
Amsoil 40:1 - 5880rpm 21mph
Amsoil 32:1 - 5900rpm 21mph - held at 20mph for a lot longer before finally hitting 21

XD100 50:1 - 5860rpm 21mph
XD100 40:1 - 5890rpm 21mph
XD100 32:1 - 5920rmp 21mph - again took longer to hit 21mph

So there ya go. not very drastic changes...but definitely repeatable changes for sure. I could also tell a difference in the idle with 32:1 vs the others. The idle was poorer, also had a lot more "2 stroke" smell.

Obviously, There is no H adjustment on these carbs, it is controlled by jet size.
I am assuming that the increase in rpm and decrease in power is due to a leaner mix coming through the jet. (ie - more oil/less fuel)
I would be curious how this affects our smaller saw and trimmer engines since their jets are much smaller. I would assume it would be fairly proportional though. Thankfully they have adjustments on the H side so maybe you could open it up a bit to compensate for the heavier oil ratio.

On a side note, the only thing different with the boat setup from the first time is that I had a slightly heavier deep cycle battery in the front of the boat than I had last time. This probably helped to put a hair more load on the engine.

So there ya go...Again not directly chainsaw-related....but definitely oil related.

 

[sean donato]

I pick a small engine for that rather than dumping it in the truck with its EFI and O2 sensors. But same here, I have had zero problems with it.

It's really common for people racing smaller two stroke motorcycles on larger tracks to see small RPM gains on the straights from small jetting changes like changing the main jet a step. Remember the engine is working against a heavy load of air resistance, or water resistance in the case of the boat, so it takes some additional power to raise the rpm a few hundred.

Non of the trucks mind it. But a 26 gallon tank and 39 gallon tank dilute 5 gallons of 40 to 1 to a level that doesn't matter.

 

[sean donato]

So I worked some long days earlier this week so decided to take a short one today. I took the boat back out on the water to try a few things and I got more expected results this time.

so here is what I did.

I mixed up some cans with Amsoil HP Marine at 50:1 - 40:1 - and 32:1
I also mixed up the Evinrude XD100 at the same ratios.
I filled each can with 1 gallon (measured from the pump) of 89 octane ethanol-free. I then added the required oil (measured with a syringe). I gave it a few hours to evenly disperse and off to the boat ramp..

View attachment 1078297

So I went to the same stretch of creek. it is a mile or so long. Had a very slight cross breeze but nothing noteworthy.

I started out by running for a while just to ensure that the motor was warm.
I would then make a run about 1/2 mile up the creek holding the throttle at WOT I would document the speed and AVG rpm. (yes the RPM would occasionally bounce by 20 or so, so I just took the AVG or what it tended to hold the most.)
When I get to the end, I would change over to another container and run back down to the starting point. This would ensure that the new fuel made it all the way to the carb and was being burned. ( I dropped the line out on one of the tests and it ran out of fuel less than halfway back so I know the distance was sufficient to change the fuel out.)
Once back to the starting point, I would sit there at idle for 30 seconds just to let my wake dissipate and then I would make the run again.

Here is what I come up with.

Amsoil 50:1 - 5840rpm 21mph
Amsoil 40:1 - 5880rpm 21mph
Amsoil 32:1 - 5900rpm 21mph - held at 20mph for a lot longer before finally hitting 21

XD100 50:1 - 5860rpm 21mph
XD100 40:1 - 5890rpm 21mph
XD100 32:1 - 5920rmp 21mph - again took longer to hit 21mph

So there ya go. not very drastic changes...but definitely repeatable changes for sure. I could also tell a difference in the idle with 32:1 vs the others. The idle was poorer, also had a lot more "2 stroke" smell.

Obviously, There is no H adjustment on these carbs, it is controlled by jet size.
I am assuming that the increase in rpm and decrease in power is due to a leaner mix coming through the jet. (ie - more oil/less fuel)
I would be curious how this affects our smaller saw and trimmer engines since their jets are much smaller. I would assume it would be fairly proportional though. Thankfully they have adjustments on the H side so maybe you could open it up a bit to compensate for the heavier oil ratio.

On a side note, the only thing different with the boat setup from the first time is that I had a slightly heavier deep cycle battery in the front of the boat than I had last time. This probably helped to put a hair more load on the engine.

So there ya go...Again not directly chainsaw-related....but definitely oil related.

Yes, just adjust the jets for the fuel mix/local conditions. Or get an autotune or mtronic and don't worry about it.

 

[bwalker]

Yes, just adjust the jets for the fuel mix/local conditions. Or get an autotune or mtronic and don't worry about it.

Sounds like you proved that 32:1 makes more power than 50:1...
Outboards are jetted notoriously rich. If you adjusted the low speed jets the rough running at low rpm would improve.

 

[Ed Penney]

I had a Hodaka Super Rat when I was a teenager. Very simple 2 stroke. Had a 20:1 mix ratio. We did some porting, stuffed the crank and got a higher compression sun burst head for it. We played around with the fuel mix a little. There wasn't really any synthetic type lubricants to speak of. We started using one ounce of caster oil to a gallon of avgas, it smelled like a model plane timbleglow engine. I used the same mix for a long time in it. Everyone use to ask me if I used Cox fuel in it, nope, 109 and loose juice. "1971"

 

[bwalker]

I had a Hodaka Super Rat when I was a teenager. Very simple 2 stroke. Had a 20:1 mix ratio. We did some porting, stuffed the crank and got a higher compression sun burst head for it. We played around with the fuel mix a little. There wasn't really any synthetic type lubricants to speak of. We started using one ounce of caster oil to a gallon of avgas, it smelled like a model plane timbleglow engine. I used the same mix for a long time in it. Everyone use to ask me if I used Cox fuel in it, nope, 109 and loose juice. "1971"

128:1? Or where you adding the castor on top of your regular oil?

 

[Ed Penney]

128:1? Or where you adding the castor on top of your regular oil?

straight castor oil. Ran it like that quite awhile. The stuff I got was way thicker than 2 stroke stroke oil. I wasn't going to do it at first. The Guy that ported the engine ran it in his Bultaco. That little bike surprised a lot of people that rode the early Yamaha 125 Mx riders. He was the local small town 2 stroke guru. I rode it for a year like that till I got a Yamaha 250 I started using Klotz.

 

[Husky77]

I dump my old 2 stroke mix in whatever 4 stroke that's close at hand weed whacker or other wise they run just fine. that's e-10 as well.

that was standard practice years ago, you just didnt waste fuel. Some say oh it will smoke more but it didnt and ran fine. Now we have "better fuel" so they tell us that suppose to run cleaner, but to me they just cause other problems

 

[Husky77]

straight castor oil. Ran it like that quite awhile. The stuff I got was way thicker than 2 stroke stroke oil. I wasn't going to do it at first. The Guy that ported the engine ran it in his Bultaco. That little bike surprised a lot of people that rode the early Yamaha 125 Mx riders. He was the local small town 2 stroke guru. I rode it for a year like that till I got a Yamaha 250 I started using Klotz.

castor oil in race bike, yes been there and done that. Because at the time castrol R 30 was the oil. I soon found out it gummed up and stuck like hard jelly, if you didnt wash the engine down with petrol after the days racing you soon wished you had. I am glad to say there are better oils now that are clean and easy to use, R30 has its place it is/was good oil.
Sorry nothing to do with saws, but had to reply to Ed

 

[adedeluca]

So I worked some long days earlier this week so decided to take a short one today. I took the boat back out on the water to try a few things and I got more expected results this time.

so here is what I did.

I mixed up some cans with Amsoil HP Marine at 50:1 - 40:1 - and 32:1
I also mixed up the Evinrude XD100 at the same ratios.
I filled each can with 1 gallon (measured from the pump) of 89 octane ethanol-free. I then added the required oil (measured with a syringe). I gave it a few hours to evenly disperse and off to the boat ramp..

View attachment 1078297

So I went to the same stretch of creek. it is a mile or so long. Had a very slight cross breeze but nothing noteworthy.

I started out by running for a while just to ensure that the motor was warm.
I would then make a run about 1/2 mile up the creek holding the throttle at WOT I would document the speed and AVG rpm. (yes the RPM would occasionally bounce by 20 or so, so I just took the AVG or what it tended to hold the most.)
When I get to the end, I would change over to another container and run back down to the starting point. This would ensure that the new fuel made it all the way to the carb and was being burned. ( I dropped the line out on one of the tests and it ran out of fuel less than halfway back so I know the distance was sufficient to change the fuel out.)
Once back to the starting point, I would sit there at idle for 30 seconds just to let my wake dissipate and then I would make the run again.

Here is what I come up with.

Amsoil 50:1 - 5840rpm 21mph
Amsoil 40:1 - 5880rpm 21mph
Amsoil 32:1 - 5900rpm 21mph - held at 20mph for a lot longer before finally hitting 21

XD100 50:1 - 5860rpm 21mph
XD100 40:1 - 5890rpm 21mph
XD100 32:1 - 5920rmp 21mph - again took longer to hit 21mph

So there ya go. not very drastic changes...but definitely repeatable changes for sure. I could also tell a difference in the idle with 32:1 vs the others. The idle was poorer, also had a lot more "2 stroke" smell.

Obviously, There is no H adjustment on these carbs, it is controlled by jet size.
I am assuming that the increase in rpm and decrease in power is due to a leaner mix coming through the jet. (ie - more oil/less fuel)
I would be curious how this affects our smaller saw and trimmer engines since their jets are much smaller. I would assume it would be fairly proportional though. Thankfully they have adjustments on the H side so maybe you could open it up a bit to compensate for the heavier oil ratio.

On a side note, the only thing different with the boat setup from the first time is that I had a slightly heavier deep cycle battery in the front of the boat than I had last time. This probably helped to put a hair more load on the engine.

So there ya go...Again not directly chainsaw-related....but definitely oil related.

Excellent you did the experiment like a scientist . I am a material scientist with experience in lubrication great job
Mike

 

[Ed Penney]

castor oil in race bike, yes been there and done that. Because at the time castrol R 30 was the oil. I soon found out it gummed up and stuck like hard jelly, if you didnt wash the engine down with petrol after the days racing you soon wished you had. I am glad to say there are better oils now that are clean and easy to use, R30 has its place it is/was good oil.
Sorry nothing to do with saws, but had to reply to Ed

 

[Ed Penney]

Those old brands Bardahl, Castrol, Full Bore, Klotz and even Shell had one for the Yamaha oil injection systems. I remember it smelt like burnt popcorn. That old oil doesn't even come close to the new stuff. I had to pull my jug off and clean it alot. Got pretty fast at it for sure, what you said about gummy was know joke. The carbon was quite often soft if I was running it a lot at slower rpm. If I was running it hard most of it would exit the expansion chamber. Used alot of rags, coathangers and triclorethaline.

 

[North by Northwest]

castor oil in race bike, yes been there and done that. Because at the time castrol R 30 was the oil. I soon found out it gummed up and stuck like hard jelly, if you didnt wash the engine down with petrol after the days racing you soon wished you had. I am glad to say there are better oils now that are clean and easy to use, R30 has its place it is/was good oil.
Sorry nothing to do with saws, but had to reply to Ed

All the castor oils had their place back in the day . Primarily within racing applications where proper mixing to prevent separation & religious engine decarbonizing scheduling were the norm . Today with modern 2T oils , bean oils are just a liability in my opinion !