Is it time for an Echo stickie?

[67L36Driver]

Fallout from repairing two CS590 for a landscaper:

The pair were scored and low compression but only two years old. 50:1 and carb limiters did them in.

I cleaned up the cylinders with a brake cylinder hone but they were scratched and shabby at best.[emoji21]

Piston/cylinder kits were too expensive to warrant the venture. [emoji90] $170.

I noticed right away the the 620 used a two ring piston so that is what we tried on the first victim.

I figured the second ring would help compression leakage past the top one given the multiple scratch’s in the cylinder wall.

It did. After a half tank at a brisk idle the first one pumped 140. [emoji106]

Same treatment of powerhead #2 gave the same result. [emoji108]

OTOH: The chain brake on them is some flimsy.[emoji2960]

 

[trojokid5]

i been workin on a 702vl and found out that the fuel filter could also use some replacing so i was wondering if anybody knew where i could find one of them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hoggwood]

i been workin on a 702vl and found out that the fuel filter could also use some replacing so i was wondering if anybody knew where i could find one of them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Echo tended to use the walbro style filters across their lineup. They are readily available as OEM or as aftermarket versions through Oregon, Stens, Roper etc. They all perform the same. They have a couple of different part numbers for the variations. You would be looking for one like the pic attached. Any decently weighted filter that is small enough to fit through the tank hole should work. The O-rings on the line to tank adapter can be swapped as well to ensure a leak free installation. I've found a few that don't seal well having sat for a long while and having been disturbed when the adapter is removed. Tygon can be used to replace the line in the tank as well as to the carb. Heat the ends with a heat gun and stretch them appropriately to fit the rather large nipples on both ends of the adapter. Don't forget to install a grommet at the carb box or use some sealant around the line to keep the fines from migrating into the carb.

 

[redunshee]

Thought I'd offer my thoughts on Echo saws. Have an old cs 452 and 660 as well as a 351 also had but sold a new 400 and 490. I thought the 452 was extremely slow compared to an 026 or even my old Poulan 3000. The 660 also was very slow compared to other manufacturers. What they did do was start and run very reliably. My cs351 runs great and is a good small saw. Naturally the newer 400's and 490's changed the game for Echo. I wonder if the (P) saws run any better.

 

[Hoggwood]

The VL designs never would win any races, that is for certain. But given the era, I personally haven't been through a series of saws that had the attention to details and components like Echo. Hand it to the Japanese for their unwavering sense of discipline and pride. Robust and reliable are understatements. The 451 and later 452 were conceived in the late 60's. All the VL's sported rugged AV, benchmark (volume output) adjustable delivery oil pumps, manual overrides, external idle adjust and so forth. It is interesting that the 44cc 451/452 came equipped with 16-20" 3/8" full comp from the factory. Confident. Their wasn't a 0.325" option. They did sport the 76 style 3/8" chain though. Nonetheless, they all seemed to have a cadence and torque to grunt through what you would throw at them, with smooth and steady efficiency. Non-rushed, enjoyable cutting. That is the appeal for me at least.

I know folks new to the old Echo models are often let down by their lack of urgency to get through the rounds. That is the bottom line for some. Perhaps that alone is misplaced when comparing to a later era of design, speed and production of other manufacturers. The torque is so pronounced on my series of larger 701/2/750/1001's, that they all wear 8-pin rims and still have the bottom end. Aside from some issues with the EVL ignition designations, they were built to last forever.

From what I've seen and read, the 620P is an outstanding offering in the modern 60cc class. The soon to be released 73cc design ought to make a convincing statement as well.

 

[rarefish383]

Went by my favorite Stihl dealers last Friday, the 600 EVL series is still sitting in the weeds by the front door. He said when he told the owner he couldn’t get ignition parts for it, he never came back. Said if it was still there next time I came by I could have it. Since Covid I’ve been by 4-5 times and the open sign is on but he’s out. I don’t want to just take it without him being there. He’s treated me very well, sold me a running Homelite Super 1050 for $40, and cut me a loop of #10 1/2 inch chain for a 32 inch bar for $30. Don’t want to ruin a good relationship.

In the 50’s and early 60’s Dad ran mostly Mac’s, by the time I started climbing he had gone to all Homelites. He tried a few Echo’s and we liked them. I had one that I stenciled my name on one side of the bar and keep off on the other. It may have been a 452, it’s been a long time. I know the ground men would grab it and dull it. I don’t remember them as being overly slow back then. I was using a Homelite Super EZas a climbing saw. I didn’t like top handles, you can’t reach out as far with them. I recently got a CS 280 top handle and it can’t wipe the sweat off an EZ. Not an apple to apples comparison, but if I was given one back then I would have tossed it. Over all we still liked them till the EVL’s started dying, then we took them out of our line up. I have more of them now than we did back in the day.

 

[rarefish383]

Fallout from repairing two CS590 for a landscaper:

The pair were scored and low compression but only two years old. 50:1 and carb limiters did them in.

I cleaned up the cylinders with a brake cylinder hone but they were scratched and shabby at best.[emoji21]

Piston/cylinder kits were too expensive to warrant the venture. [emoji90] $170.

I noticed right away the the 620 used a two ring piston so that is what we tried on the first victim.

I figured the second ring would help compression leakage past the top one given the multiple scratch’s in the cylinder wall.

It did. After a half tank at a brisk idle the first one pumped 140. [emoji106]

Same treatment of powerhead #2 gave the same result. [emoji108]

OTOH: The chain brake on them is some flimsy.[emoji2960]

What do you mean 50;1 did them in? How? I run still Ultra 50:1 in all of my 2 stroke stuff.

 

[KarlD]

I was looking at getting a Husqvarna to strip and rebuild, but got distracted. I’m pleased I did, this is beautifully built.

 

[KarlD]

Looks like 6 point AV, will be interesting to see how this feels in the hand compared to my old 090AV

 

[KarlD]

I’ve not run it yet (I always check the piston and cylinder from exhaust side even on a new saw)

 

[KarlD]

Will this be crazy lean from factory do you think? I know there is only one way to find out. I’ll put up a video of first start at some point

 

[edju1958]

I've got a nice 500 EVL & I put fuel in it that somehow got water in it.The saw ran like crap,had no power,& wouldn't idle.I dumped that fuel out & put fresh mixed fuel in it.Now the saw continues to run the same.I also put a new fuel filter in & still the same.Time to pull the carb & go through it.What did the water in the fuel do to the carb?I had 3 other saws that had the water laden fuel in them & I've dumped out all the fuel.The Remington saw runs fine,I still have to refuel a Homelite & a McCulloch to see if they were affected at all.

 

[rarefish383]

Ed, my guess is that there is some residual water in there. I can't think of it doing anything to hurt the carb. But, I'm the one scared to death of carbs. When my climber retired he gave me a 500EVL. He said you had to let it sit and idle for 10-15 minutes and then it ran like a striped arse ape. First time I started it it fire right up with 3-4 pulls. Every time I tried to blip it, it stalled. So, I started cleaning the garage and let it sit, every 5 minutes I'd pick it up, pull the trigger and it stalled. On the 3rd time, right at 15 minutes, it took off and ran great. I have no idea what that can be either.

 

[rarefish383]

Looks like 6 point AV, will be interesting to see how this feels in the hand compared to my old 090AVView attachment 861873View attachment 861874View attachment 861875View attachment 861876View attachment 861877View attachment 861878View attachment 861879

I just don't know what to say. That just makes me want one, BAD. I just did a search and it said 116 CC and it only pulls an 80 CM bar, that's just 31 inches?

 

[rarefish383]

Ok, I collect saws. When Dad was in business we had mechanics to work on saws. If he caught some one trying to mess with a saw he would jump on them and say, " why are you trying to do something I don't pay you to do, and why do you have 4 guys standing on a customers lawn with nothing to do, watching you try to do something you don't get paid to do? Go get another saw and get to work." I understand his logic and pretty much agree with it. He spent a lot of money to have back up saws for every position on the job. The Idea of being in business is to make money, not teach climbers how to be mechanics. So, I never learned how to be a good mechanic. I've learned more in my retirement collecting saws than I did when climbing. Point of long introduction. If you are on an Echo forum, you are probably aware of the EVL problems the 70-80's Echo's had. I just did my every six months search for fixing a 750 EVL with a dead ignition. I found an old AS post that I've never seen before. A guy said he swapped the ignition and flywheel from a 601 onto a 750 and it ran great, I have a nice running 602 that I would probably sacrifice for my minty 750 if it would get it going again. Does anyone know if those two saws are compatible? I didn't think they were. The 601 and 602 are points saws, if I could swap the points ignition in there I'd do it in a heart beat.

 

[AGoodSteward]

We got a new 680 to demo from the local dealer. Been running it for a week now. Have several 2511's. Have several observations, but I'll post those another day.

 

[edju1958]

Ed, my guess is that there is some residual water in there. I can't think of it doing anything to hurt the carb. But, I'm the one scared to death of carbs. When my climber retired he gave me a 500EVL. He said you had to let it sit and idle for 10-15 minutes and then it ran like a striped arse ape. First time I started it it fire right up with 3-4 pulls. Every time I tried to blip it, it stalled. So, I started cleaning the garage and let it sit, every 5 minutes I'd pick it up, pull the trigger and it stalled. On the 3rd time, right at 15 minutes, it took off and ran great. I have no idea what that can be either.

My saw always ran great Joe.I never had to let it sit & idle,it took right off from the get go.When I first got the saw the carb was all out of whack,the needles weren't set right at all.I got that straightened out & then the saw ran like a top.It's been sitting for about 2 yrs.now & I had it running & cutting just fine.It was that damn water that somehow got into the fuel that screwed the saw up.

 

[KarlD]

I just don't know what to say. That just makes me want one, BAD. I just did a search and it said 116 CC and it only pulls an 80 CM bar, that's just 31 inches?

I’m confident it’ll pull the 47” bar I have fitted...but we’ll see?! It really is a beautifully engineered lump

 

[Hoggwood]

My saw always ran great Joe.I never had to let it sit & idle,it took right off from the get go.When I first got the saw the carb was all out of whack,the needles weren't set right at all.I got that straightened out & then the saw ran like a top.It's been sitting for about 2 yrs.now & I had it running & cutting just fine.It was that damn water that somehow got into the fuel that screwed the saw up.

FWIW, I’ve run into a couple of carbs that had residual water sitting in them. HDC’s. The water had caused the aluminum to corrode somewhat at the seat of the metering needle. Pitted. No assortment of new kits/needles or spring stretching could get them to keep from popping off early. I imagine ethanol fuels tend to exacerbate the potential for water to stay mixed in the fuel. Especially if it is there from the fueling station. No ethanol and the water isn’t soluble.

 

[Hoggwood]

I’m confident it’ll pull the 47” bar I have fitted...but we’ll see?! It really is a beautifully engineered lump

It ought to pull hard. Closest I have is a ‘78 1001. Came with the common 36” 0.404 full comp in these parts . Outstanding torque. I never had the need to run that setup. Anything under 30” and 3/8” gets pulled on an 8-pin. Wood plows in the Doug fir.