IS vs 30-NCH Help Needed

[Ambull01]

I got my NC 30 for so cheap from HD it was a no-brainer. It was a deal they had in Virginia with free delivery here inside my living room. So I made that my HD store on their web site and ordered it online. They got wise to that and stopped doing the free shipping, but they get pretty cheap in the off season at some HD stores. You have to hunt them down on their web site. My Englander stove replaced an older smoke dragon stove here that I sold for $200 to reduce my cost even more.

Issues with CAT and secondary stoves are that below a certain temp, they both turn into smoke dragons (when you damp them down). I can cook this place with the Englander, and rarely fill it full. You can control heat a number of ways, with species as mentioned above, but also with split size and number. More smaller splits have more surface area for more heat, but less time heating. Few larger splits have less surface area to create less heat, but for a longer burn time. I find that it is easy to overfire this thing, like my last stove. So I have to damp it down some. I also get more heat from burning fewer splits hotter, rather than more splits damped down. I usually have only 2 or 3 4x4 size splits in there at a time. I do not burn 4x4s, that is just the rough size of splits that I have been burning. We have also had a really warm winter this year, but when temps dropped, I added more splits of oak and black locust instead of the cypress and alder that I was burning and it kept this place toasty.

I also have to say, the exiled Ape is sure busy on this site with his many personas this year.

Well just when I had my mind made up to go with the IS doubts are creeping back in. I guess I really can't go wrong with either stove. Spend more money for soapstone on the IS and have more control or save a bunch with the Englander.

Yeah search zip codes and your local store will match it. I would not shove it in all the eay but mine sticks out a little more than 1/2 way in my fireplace. I only use the blower at 10 or below and high winds. It heats a 21 ft cathedral open a- frame at 1700 sq ft. My basement is 1/2 way above grade so it's cold down there and unusable. My walls have 1/2 foam board and finished I figure a stove will make it useful and help heat rise. If it works our well enough I will run it 24/7 instead of my mainfloor. What better beast to put down there!

You know the older I get the more I doubt/question the general must have/coveted features of homes. Seems people really want beautiful trees in their yard, high ceilings, luxurious bathrooms, granite counter tops, etc. I want to rip out/cut down all the trees in my yard. Only thing they do is break off branches in high winds, dump leaves, and cause problems with their roots. High ceilings are nice but that's so much wasted space. I wish my ceilings were shorter, less room to heat. Don't spend time up on the ceiling so that's all just for looks. I spend about 20 minutes a day in my bathroom, no need to dump a ton of money into it. Spend less time in my kitchen.

Anyways, how much of a difference does the blower make? Where is most of the heat from the 30 coming out of? If it's from the top and sides, I'll really have to shut off and insulate the damper area so the heat stays in my house.

 

[Cerran]

Trees in your yard are great if they are a reasonable distance from concrete driveways and structures. I have a big Douglas Fir in my yard that has trashed my driveway because it's gotten so large.

 

[Ambull01]

Trees in your yard are great if they are a reasonable distance from concrete driveways and structures. I have a big Douglas Fir in my yard that has trashed my driveway because it's gotten so large.

I don't know. You still have to deal with branches/leaves/needles/etc. Then you have the damn squirrels. I need to chill out, I'm sounding a bit grumpy today.

 

[Streblerm]

I have a 30-nc. It is in the center of an old, drafty, poorly insulated 2200sf farm house. This is the third season of running it. I couldn't be happier. I loaded it up at 7:30 this morning with 3 good sized splits and one 8" round. the round was maple and the splits were oak, maple, and basswood. At 6:0o when I got home the main part of the house was 65 and I still had a serious bed of coals. It was 5 degrees outside this morning and 20 when I got home. The bedrooms and office are at the far end of the house and the tend to be about five degrees cooler. Three splits will be ok for about 8hrs.

Running in the shoulder season is no problem. You just build smaller fires.

I love the Englander for its simplicity. It has required zero maintenance other than cleaning so far.

I don't know anything about the other model you are looking at but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Englander.

 

[Ambull01]

I have a 30-nc. It is in the center of an old, drafty, poorly insulated 2200sf farm house. This is the third season of running it. I couldn't be happier. I loaded it up at 7:30 this morning with 3 good sized splits and one 8" round. the round was maple and the splits were oak, maple, and basswood. At 6:0o when I got home the main part of the house was 65 and I still had a serious bed of coals. It was 5 degrees outside this morning and 20 when I got home. The bedrooms and office are at the far end of the house and the tend to be about five degrees cooler. Three splits will be ok for about 8hrs.

Running in the shoulder season is no problem. You just build smaller fires.

I love the Englander for its simplicity. It has required zero maintenance other than cleaning so far.

I don't know anything about the other model you are looking at but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Englander.

Well if it heats your house it should have no issues with mine. I have about the same sq. footage. I can't help but be impressed with all the positive/almost glowing reviews the Englander gets especially considering the price tag. Sometimes you really can buy a quality product at a low price point.

 

[CTYank]

One quick comfort/efficiency-booster I'd go for before insulation/windows is SEALING. See that doors & windows keep heated air inside, and close all the oopses in the house envelope. Then insulation and retrofit windows will have much more effect.

Works for me. And, trees are a GOOD THING near a house if they're sited to block the blue-northers in winter and provide shade in summer.

 

[TheLazyBFarm]

Another 30-NC fan checking in. Like others here, I got my 30-NC last Feb/early March by watching the threads here on AS and at Hearth.com. Then I ordered it for $650. Had to pay shipping and tax, but still a great deal! And compared to the cost of the chimney and hearth, it was by far the cheapest of the three!

How is your wood supply?

Good luck!

 

[Tjcole50]

Englander also is made in the us... their customer support are right here and speak clear English their customer support is awesome. I had a baffle warp right out of warranty and they sent 2 new ones no problem and it arrived in two days. They don't have a lon length of useable heat tho when it does get cold I mean real cold . I run into a mountain of coals before the stove can burn them down. But it is a beast

 

[windthrown]

Well if it heats your house it should have no issues with mine. I have about the same sq. footage. I can't help but be impressed with all the positive/almost glowing reviews the Englander gets especially considering the price tag. Sometimes you really can buy a quality product at a low price point.

Well, there is not that much to wood stove technology, and it is really just a hunk of steel and some glass. A good flue will set you back as much as a stove like these. I have not had any real issues with my Englander. It looks as good and is designed the same as many stoves in the local shops for upward of 2 grand. I got a free blower with the HD stove and it is hooked up, but I do not use it as it is pretty noisy, as was the one on my last stove. I use a quiet box fan at one side of the stove to blow the heat around the house. Its the same setup I used with my old stove. I have a 20"x20" furnace filter in back of the fan to keep the dust down. The one thing about the Englander that I do not like is the damper, as it is just a damper on a long rod. My old stove had a thermocouple attached to the damper so it was more temperature range effective. And that was a 30 year old stove! This one keeps my house between 64 and 70 degrees no problem though. I let the fire die down more overnight because I do not want it more than 65 in the house at night. More than that and I do not sleep well. When my mother was here for Thanksgiving I kept the house at 72 and she loved it. It was snowing here then, and between 18 and 25 outside.

 

[Mountaineer51]

Have the nc-30 also. Got it shipped for 6 something also from HD. It's in the basement as the only heat source for 3200 sq. ft. It runs 24-7 from October. to early April. I think it's on its 3rd or 4th winter. It will coal up when running it hard but I just open the door and let me burn down . I only wish the fire box was a lil bigger. Good stove though.

 

[Streblerm]

. They don't have a lon length of useable heat tho when it does get cold I mean real cold . I run into a mountain of coals before the stove can burn them down. But it is a beast

I have found two things that really help with the "over coaling" First is to use really dry wood. The second is to use less of it.

Really dry wood is key here. Three splits and some kindling to start a fire or two splits on some coals will get me 600 degree stove top temp in short order and allow me to close the damper all the way with no visible smoke after 15 minutes or so. "dryish" wood will hover around 400 degrees stove top temp and will become a pile of coals by the time it reaches 5-600 degrees and closing the damper will result in unhappy neighbors. "greenish" wood will smoke like crazy on anything less than full open primary air and will struggle to reach 400 degree stove temp.

Three pieces of really dry wood will get me 8 hrs. It won't keep the whole house above 70 degrees for 8 hrs but it will keep the heat pump off. It is hard to resist the urge to just chuck another piece in when the inside temperature drops a couple of degrees. The stove works better if you let the burn completely cycle before adding more wood. When the house starts to cool off I rake the coals front and center in front of the primary air and stack 2 or 3 more splits on top of the coals. As soon as they are roaring i close the primary air down and don't touch it again until the house starts cooling off. The only time I chock it full is for VERY cold overnight burns or when I know I will be away for a long time.

when I went from my smoke dragon to this stove It cut my wood burning from >8 to <6 cords per year. Perfecting my loading practices will get me to below 5 cords this year. I am hoping that with some discipline i can get down to 4.

 

[Ambull01]

Another 30-NC fan checking in. Like others here, I got my 30-NC last Feb/early March by watching the threads here on AS and at **********. Then I ordered it for $650. Had to pay shipping and tax, but still a great deal! And compared to the cost of the chimney and hearth, it was by far the cheapest of the three!

How is your wood supply?

Good luck!

What's the other site? Shipping must have cost a fortune.

Englander also is made in the us... their customer support are right here and speak clear English their customer support is awesome. I had a baffle warp right out of warranty and they sent 2 new ones no problem and it arrived in two days. They don't have a lon length of useable heat tho when it does get cold I mean real cold . I run into a mountain of coals before the stove can burn them down. But it is a beast

So if you had some cash burning a hole in your pocket, would you consider going to a cat/soapstone stove?

Well, there is not that much to wood stove technology, and it is really just a hunk of steel and some glass. A good flue will set you back as much as a stove like these. I have not had any real issues with my Englander. It looks as good and is designed the same as many stoves in the local shops for upward of 2 grand. I got a free blower with the HD stove and it is hooked up, but I do not use it as it is pretty noisy, as was the one on my last stove. I use a quiet box fan at one side of the stove to blow the heat around the house. Its the same setup I used with my old stove. I have a 20"x20" furnace filter in back of the fan to keep the dust down. The one thing about the Englander that I do not like is the damper, as it is just a damper on a long rod. My old stove had a thermocouple attached to the damper so it was more temperature range effective. And that was a 30 year old stove! This one keeps my house between 64 and 70 degrees no problem though. I let the fire die down more overnight because I do not want it more than 65 in the house at night. More than that and I do not sleep well. When my mother was here for Thanksgiving I kept the house at 72 and she loved it. It was snowing here then, and between 18 and 25 outside.

Yeah you're right, the other required stuff is really expensive. I want to get a flexible liner and have it go right from the back exhaust all the way to the top of the chimney. Figure that will make it a breeze to clean. Get one of those sweeps that you connect to a drill and run it from the stove all the way up. Getting on my roof will be a pretty dangerous enterprise.

The only sounds I want to hear is maybe the soothing cackle of burning wood. I'll try out a box fan and see how much of a difference it makes. I could definitely live with 65. 52 degrees is a bit low for my tastes.

Have the nc-30 also. Got it shipped for 6 something also from HD. It's in the basement as the only heat source for 3200 sq. ft. It runs 24-7 from October. to early April. I think it's on its 3rd or 4th winter. It will coal up when running it hard but I just open the door and let me burn down . I only wish the fire box was a lil bigger. Good stove though.

Man you guys got some great deals. Can't believe that thing adequately heats 3200 sq ft without running it full blast.

 

[Tjcole50]

If i were spending more it would be woodstock ideal steel or blaze king princess/king. But to be honest I just don't see the value in other tube stoves that are more expensive than the nc30 hell even cat stoves. I have seen and know people with several different t stoves most a bit higher priced. Now sure those stove look fancier. But my 1/3rd the price nc30 American steel pumps out the heat as much as theirs.....
If i spend more it's blaze king or is

 

[Ambull01]

If i were spending more it would be woodstock ideal steel or blaze king princess/king. But to be honest I just don't see the value in other tube stoves that are more expensive than the nc30 hell even cat stoves. I have seen and know people with several different t stoves most a bit higher priced. Now sure those stove look fancier. But my 1/3rd the price nc30 American steel pumps out the heat as much as theirs.....
If i spend more it's blaze king or is

That is true. I'm starting to almost feel like I'll be making a stupid decision if I don't buy the NC 30. I can almost buy two NC 30s for the price on two BK replacement cats.

 

[quotejso2]

Get the king

 

[brenndatomu]

FYI, there is a 1 year old used NC30 for sale over on the hearth site "for sale or wanted" for $500, in MA...

 

[Ambull01]

FYI, there is a 1 year old used NC30 for sale over on the hearth site "for sale or wanted" for $500, in MA...

Yeah I saw that. Looks in good shape but I could buy a brand new one with warranty for a bit more.

 

[Idahonative]

"Well, there is not that much to wood stove technology, and it is really just a hunk of steel and some glass."

This statement couldn't be further from the truth.

When I was in High School, our welding teacher had a good set of blue prints for building a wood stove. At that time, the stove was better than many of the commercially made stoves you could buy. Word got around our community and these "high school made" stoves were in high demand. It was great for the person buying the stove because they only had to pay for materials and they got a heavy, overbuilt stove. It was also great experience for us.

It's not 1986 anymore and to say wood stove technology has changed dramatically would be an understatement. Back then, a steel box with a manually controlled damper was common. Not to say that design won't heat your home because it will. But there are choices out there that are SOOOOOOOOO much better than that and they are chalked full of some real fine engineering.

But to comment on Ambull's original post: For someone on a limited budget, the Englander would be hard to beat.

 

[Ambull01]

"Well, there is not that much to wood stove technology, and it is really just a hunk of steel and some glass."

This statement couldn't be further from the truth.

When I was in High School, our welding teacher had a good set of blue prints for building a wood stove. At that time, the stove was better than many of the commercially made stoves you could buy. Word got around our community and these "high school made" stoves were in high demand. It was great for the person buying the stove because they only had to pay for materials and they got a heavy, overbuilt stove. It was also great experience for us.

It's not 1986 anymore and to say wood stove technology has changed dramatically would be an understatement. Back then, a steel box with a manually controlled damper was common. Not to say that design won't heat your home because it will. But there are choices out there that are SOOOOOOOOO much better than that and they are chalked full of some real fine engineering.

But to comment on Ambull's original post: For someone on a limited budget, the Englander would be hard to beat.

That's interesting. When you break a stove down, it really is just a hunk of metal/brick/glass. Compared to other things (like newer cars) they do seem very simple. Guess that's one of the very few good things the EPA has done, forced wood stove manufacturers to build more efficient wood burners. Not sure how some stoves get around that though. Also, I would think breaking down a BK stove to figure out how they get their supposedly great low burn times should be easy for other stove manufacturers.

Yep, Englander sounds great. I can't believe HD can keep them in stock considering all the great reviews and low price. Almost reminds me of the Makita 6421.

 

[Idahonative]

That's interesting. When you break a stove down, it really is just a hunk of metal/brick/glass. Compared to other things (like newer cars) they do seem very simple. Guess that's one of the very few good things the EPA has done, forced wood stove manufacturers to build more efficient wood burners. Not sure how some stoves get around that though. Also, I would think breaking down a BK stove to figure out how they get their supposedly great low burn times should be easy for other stove manufacturers.

Yep, Englander sounds great. I can't believe HD can keep them in stock considering all the great reviews and low price. Almost reminds me of the Makita 6421.

I've wondered the same thing many times. I'm surprised other companies haven't copied BK's air control since that is what I believe sets them far apart. Could it be a patent? They have been using some form of that air control system for nearly 40 years. Don't patents expire in 20 years? So why don't we see more of that design on other stoves? It's a good question...maybe someone with knowledge will step in and explain.