I really see where you are coming from and I understand the easy enterance to a cert. I also know my customer base and without-out the cert- no way to get in. No weight? Wrong- lotta weight but maybe abused and mis-used in in certain contracts.
ISA has a $200 recertification fee now
- Thread starter Dillweed
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
I really see where you are coming from and I understand the easy enterance to a cert. I also know my customer base and without-out the cert- no way to get in. No weight? Wrong- lotta weight but maybe abused and mis-used in in certain contracts.
af7850
ArboristSite Member
DUH!- What I said!
Jeff
Hmmm, okay then, I didn't get that from your post but I'm glad we agree.
"Once again you really shouldn't mumble, 'cause it's kinda starting to bum me out."
I really see where you are coming from and I understand the easy enterance to a cert. I also know my customer base and without-out the cert- no way to get in. No weight? Wrong- lotta weight but maybe abused and mis-used in in certain contracts.
A lot of hacks around here seem to be busier than the legit guys sometimes. Granted they're probably working for peanuts, but I think that has also made me a bit weary/grumpy. Some days you just get tired of explaining the same old certification/insurance speel to customers .
Maybe we can say "some" weight?!!
Your ok man,
Jeff
Jeff
af7850
ArboristSite Member
Yes, there was certainly a question of integrity. The quote was borrowed from Gene Wilder, but it is certainly relevant. Let me explain...
Here you state that an individual without ISA Cert needs to prove that they are "not a hack", inferring that one who does have ISA Cert does not have to prove themselves, presumably because possession of the Cert is itself proof.
I say that you are wrong. The fact that ISA Certified hacks do exist proves that knowledge of proper practice does not preclude an individual from being a hack. I say that integrity is the equally important factor in determining pro from hack, and as integrity is a function of character - not intellect - it cannot be measured by a written test.
So tell me, where is integrity measured(bred)? In the character(heart) of a person or in the intellect(head)? Get it?
"Uh, you really shouldn't mumble. Because I can't hear a word you're saying. Now, on with the tour. ..."
af7850
ArboristSite Member
Somebody please tell me if I'm just being an ass... somebody besides jeff.
You are making no sense- ie: A person with a drivers license is a good and qualified driver? I know the hacks exists, why dump on ISA for it? Why not dump on the DMV for giving out drivers license's to those that pass. Ease up and all will be alright.
Jeff
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Integrity and the ISA? What?
Some individuals who happen to be ISA certified have it, but the ISA, no.
Integrity means doing what you say, and they want money, and will turn a blind eye to what they say. As many know, who have followed the sordid behavior of some ISA types that I have posted about on here over the last few years.
Anyways, this thread is progressing much like I predicted in post #2.
Pretty devastating post there ChiHD, very well said.
Some individuals who happen to be ISA certified have it, but the ISA, no.
Integrity means doing what you say, and they want money, and will turn a blind eye to what they say. As many know, who have followed the sordid behavior of some ISA types that I have posted about on here over the last few years.
Anyways, this thread is progressing much like I predicted in post #2.
Pretty devastating post there ChiHD, very well said.
Bigus Termitius
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ode to Happiness!
It's simple.... like anything, it is what you make of it.
It all seems relatively cheap to me.
How ironic it is to have tree guys complaining about the price of doing biz, when we are the ones usually giving out the sticker shock.
It's simple.... like anything, it is what you make of it.
It all seems relatively cheap to me.
How ironic it is to have tree guys complaining about the price of doing biz, when we are the ones usually giving out the sticker shock.
It's simple.... like anything, it is what you make of it.
How ironic it is to have tree guys complaining about the price of doing biz, when we are the ones usually giving out the sticker shock.
This is true but our prices as an industry don't seem to have gone up since the 80's while our expenses have. Thanks to all the hacks working for beer money while the rest of us struggle to pay overhead costs ie. payroll expenses, insurance, workers comp...all that stuff that gets in the way of profit!!
Maybe we are the dumb ones!! ISA's prices and fees are definately higher, but probably more due to having a monopoly on arborist certification instead of cheaper unqualified competition!
This is true but our prices as an industry don't seem to have gone up since the 80's
:jawdrop:
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
My comments in red
Why is recert such a big expense for you? Maybe because you spent 3 years goofing off. Here we go again, has to get nasty, personal and below the belt. Getting legit CEU's is not huge expense, or you can go the cheap route getting sketchy info like that online article site. And again, seems you put down a few sites and people except the ISA, serves your monotonous diet of regurgitated ISA material. There's thousands of universities globally that do research with trees and plants, which until some-one in the ISA borrows, re-badges and sends down the line you miss out on. You're well behind the 8 ball on many issues Guy because you require 1 regime' to educate you.
I get a LOT of quality referrals from the ISA site, which costs me nothing. Really, in my experience there's two types of referrals. One is where they search for an arborist/tree service and get you (could even be a links page) and the other is where inbound calls from the public get given your details. Now this second one is interesting because there's no transparency and the boys club hog the cream for themselves. Lots of idle beyotching here, again and again. :deadhorse: Interesting how again you have to vilify open discussion and put people down who think differently to you, frankly the ISA is a business, and it's like a religion that's escaped the USA borders.
Your level 5, isn't that regurgitated material too? What makes your system better that ISA's? Whoever gives you the level 5 makes a profit correct? You probibly have incompatent level 5's on your councels if you look. All systems have good & bad points...let it go.
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm with you on the assessment based testing...ISA should have assessment based testing.
I earned my ISA cert too, no one gave it to me... I think your system produces quality arborist, and believe ISA should follow some of the examples in your system.
ISA is choosing volume over quality...not good.
I earned my ISA cert too, no one gave it to me... I think your system produces quality arborist, and believe ISA should follow some of the examples in your system.
ISA is choosing volume over quality...not good.
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Doesn't ISA's climbing cert do practical assessment?
I also think the Master Arb is a more involved process with copies of reports etc to be reviewed. So the ISA people here would have to clarify the depth of qualifications.
Our system is being revamped a little and we are going to end up with only Level 3 and Level 5, the current level 2 and level 4 will be gone, which frankly the writing has been on the wall about anyway.
Within our system you select from mandatory units and top up with optional units, it does mean some tailor making and varied results however a copy of all units of competency is issued and that's what employers/customers should look for. You can do individual units of competency if required, like chainsaw safety and procedures, small tree felling, large tree felling etc. But again it's competency based training so you need to show proof that you can do the job or fell that leaning hollow tree.
I also think the Master Arb is a more involved process with copies of reports etc to be reviewed. So the ISA people here would have to clarify the depth of qualifications.
Our system is being revamped a little and we are going to end up with only Level 3 and Level 5, the current level 2 and level 4 will be gone, which frankly the writing has been on the wall about anyway.
Within our system you select from mandatory units and top up with optional units, it does mean some tailor making and varied results however a copy of all units of competency is issued and that's what employers/customers should look for. You can do individual units of competency if required, like chainsaw safety and procedures, small tree felling, large tree felling etc. But again it's competency based training so you need to show proof that you can do the job or fell that leaning hollow tree.
