isa

[mckeetree]

so everyone feels that the isa or being a ca is not worth it and useless or too much money?

The fees are reasonable. ISA membership is very reasonable compared to TCIA. The CA credential certainly is not "worthless" but to sum it up the public has very, very little awareness of the ISA although a few have heard the term "certified arborist" but are not sure what that really is, and, John Q. Public's perception of value is changing right before our very eyes. I deal with that 24/7.

 

[Pelorus]

A large envelope arrived today from the ISA.
Online Learning Center brochure, Credentials / Qualifications info, membership card, etc.
Feeling more positive now. Lesson learned for me is to never abandon hope! Gotta stay positive.

 

[david miller]

did I read that right self taught from utube :msp_tongue: cool vid

 

[lxt]

I think the problem is easy to fix, have the Cert requirements be stricter, do away with the tree climber specialist BS & make that apart of the CA like it was years ago, I think all CA`s should have to prove they can perform an aerial rescue, ID trees, perform a skills test and verify ones background!!! home depot, lowes & ace hardware dont count!!!

I dont wanna hear that some 80 year old guy should be able to be a CA or a 9 year old kid...........thats ridiculous!!! get away from politically correct & make this a specialized Cert like it should be & then promote it!

If I can still climb & perform an aerial rescue after heart surgery............. then the BS excuses of someone being to old or handicapped are BS, If I cant pass the medical exam for my CDL I dont get to drive & am decertified! make the CA the same upon initial testing.....then its just CEU`s after that.

The problem is they want everyone certified & have to dumb it down for the types we all know are out there!


LXT...........

 

[bootboy]

I'm not a full time pro by any means but I have a registered business and insurance. But I feel like I have a sound basic understanding of economics.

My 2 cents?

Adapt or die. There is only so much you can do to control the market climate. Times are changing and it's hard to have your cake and eat it too. I think that like with a lot of other things, the market got inflated and a lot of folks rode the good times but the bottom has come out a little. Maybe the prices got artificially high. Free markets have a remarkable way of regulating if given time. Finding ways to be more effective and efficient are what will keep those with skills in both business and the trade afloat. The economy over the last 2 decades has seen bubbles grow and burst. Maybe this is the tree work bubble bursting. Maybe scaling back the size of operations and cutting overhead is what it will take. Perhaps working on a large scale isn't the most efficient way anymore. Like someone said earlier, the guys he knows who still make a decent living have nothing but their pickups, saws, and skill.
Some here will probably not like what I've said but maybe it's the cold hard truth, to be competitive, you must adapt.
I'm all for certifications but for it to matter, you've got to get creative about coming up with ways to make them important to your prospective customers. I'm not saying I have all the answers but I think I can see several problems the industry and its professionals are facing.

Just my 2 cents

 

[AirBorneMutha]

I think the problem is easy to fix, have the Cert requirements be stricter, do away with the tree climber specialist BS & make that apart of the CA like it was years ago, I think all CA`s should have to prove they can perform an aerial rescue, ID trees, perform a skills test and verify ones background!!! home depot, lowes & ace hardware dont count!!!

I dont wanna hear that some 80 year old guy should be able to be a CA or a 9 year old kid...........thats ridiculous!!! get away from politically correct & make this a specialized Cert like it should be & then promote it!

If I can still climb & perform an aerial rescue after heart surgery............. then the BS excuses of someone being to old or handicapped are BS, If I cant pass the medical exam for my CDL I dont get to drive & am decertified! make the CA the same upon initial testing.....then its just CEU`s after that.

The problem is they want everyone certified & have to dumb it down for the types we all know are out there!


LXT...........

What are you asking for isa to go bankrupt?

 

[mckeetree]

I'm not a full time pro by any means but I have a registered business and insurance. But I feel like I have a sound basic understanding of economics.

My 2 cents?

Adapt or die. There is only so much you can do to control the market climate. Times are changing and it's hard to have your cake and eat it too. I think that like with a lot of other things, the market got inflated and a lot of folks rode the good times but the bottom has come out a little. Maybe the prices got artificially high. Free markets have a remarkable way of regulating if given time. Finding ways to be more effective and efficient are what will keep those with skills in both business and the trade afloat. The economy over the last 2 decades has seen bubbles grow and burst. Maybe this is the tree work bubble bursting. Maybe scaling back the size of operations and cutting overhead is what it will take. Perhaps working on a large scale isn't the most efficient way anymore. Like someone said earlier, the guys he knows who still make a decent living have nothing but their pickups, saws, and skill.
Some here will probably not like what I've said but maybe it's the cold hard truth, to be competitive, you must adapt.
I'm all for certifications but for it to matter, you've got to get creative about coming up with ways to make them important to your prospective customers. I'm not saying I have all the answers but I think I can see several problems the industry and its professionals are facing.

Just my 2 cents

Some of your post makes a little sense. Here is the thing...NAA, now TCIA, and ISA always promoted professionalism. Be professional, spend money on training, keep your equipment right, follow best practices, take time out for paid employee safety meetings, get credentialed, get licensed, insure your business, insure your employees, keep your paper work right, keep your taxes tightened up, get your CDL, and etc., etc., etc. TCIA and ISA like to meet with politicians and slap each other on the back about what a good job they are doing promoting all this professionalism and what a good thing it is and how the government loves to see tight ships just freaking overflowing with professionalism. Then, the government who claimed to be on our side decided they would let 15,000,000 illegal aliens compete with us. These illegals would be held to no standards, allowed to operate in any fashion they see fit, pay no taxes, be really, really unprofessional, be immune from regulations, etc., etc., etc. Johnny Q. Public liked the idea of all the professionalism but Juan Mojado would do for $350.00 what John Professional needed $975.00 to do and it wasn't long before price started to become the old big deal maker breaker over just about anything else. Old guys like me who came up the old NAA way didn't know what to do except approach the client with their ins. in one hand and their credentials in the other. With maybe their applicators license stuck to their forehead. It wasn't long before too many customers viewed all this as justification to charge a lot more than Chingones Tree Service. And it was justification...being better, insured, licensed and legal was what we all used to justify a higher rate. Problem is, things just kept sliding towards the who is the cheapest side. I see it everyday.

 

[Pelorus]

mckeetree, have you tried marketing to a different clientele? Commercial / insurance work rather than residential? My biz is mostly residential, but I can stay reasonably busy by also contract climbing for two other tree services (in different towns). Marketing / advertising is my Achilles heel, and I depend a lot more on referrals and repeat customers than attracting new ones. I try to offer them friendly and efficient professional service at a reasonable price point. Sometimes way too reasonable, grrrrrr. A business relationship seems to change for me once the client begins to become a friend more than a client. Not good for "the bottom line"

The big outfits up here like Bartlett and Davey target municipalities, and big estate properties owned by multimillionaires. The rich cats aren't going to hire any outfit that doesn't come with a pedigree and a golden history.

 

[bootboy]

Some of your post makes a little sense. Here is the thing...NAA, now TCIA, and ISA always promoted professionalism. Be professional, spend money on training, keep your equipment right, follow best practices, take time out for paid employee safety meetings, get credentialed, get licensed, insure your business, insure your employees, keep your paper work right, keep your taxes tightened up, get your CDL, and etc., etc., etc. TCIA and ISA like to meet with politicians and slap each other on the back about what a good job they are doing promoting all this professionalism and what a good thing it is and how the government loves to see tight ships just freaking overflowing with professionalism. Then, the government who claimed to be on our side decided they would let 15,000,000 illegal aliens compete with us. These illegals would be held to no standards, allowed to operate in any fashion they see fit, pay no taxes, be really, really unprofessional, be immune from regulations, etc., etc., etc. Johnny Q. Public liked the idea of all the professionalism but Juan Mojado would do for $350.00 what John Professional needed $975.00 to do and it wasn't long before price started to become the old big deal maker breaker over just about anything else. Old guys like me who came up the old NAA way didn't know what to do except approach the client with their ins. in one hand and their credentials in the other. With maybe their applicators license stuck to their forehead. It wasn't long before too many customers viewed all this as justification to charge a lot more than Chingones Tree Service. And it was justification...being better, insured, licensed and legal was what we all used to justify a higher rate. Problem is, things just kept sliding towards the who is the cheapest side. I see it everyday.

I agree, all valid points you make there. I should have been more clear about things that can be fixed and that it's important to do what you can to create the type of market we'd like to see. But short of all that, adapting a business to changing market climates is why some businesses make it through tough times. Like I said, maybe some of the old ways won't work in a new world.
One plus to the inconvenience of economic and political pressure is that it drives innovation and creativity. not to say that it is intrinsically good, but there is a silver lining to it. Just as the EPA and rising energy costs have driven the advances in automotive technology, so economic circumstances drive better business strategies.
I agree that it's a damn shame that illegal immigration is killing some industries because those that do it legally have to recoup what they lose in taxes after Uncle Sam takes his share. To survive they have to pass the bill to their customers. Naturally, the consumer looks for the better deal that juan offers. getting the same product for half the price because jose doesn't lose anything to uncle sam.
As for the tree industry, I think certification requirements should be stricter and better enforced. Things that can be done politically to create a truly fair playing field by making everyone play by the same rules, should be done. Instead of punishing those that play by the rules, no more rules, at least not until everyone is playing by the ones we have.

 

[jefflovstrom]

This thread is taking off.
Jeff :msp_biggrin:

 

[Pelorus]

I naturally gravitate to ISA threads like a vulture to a dead groundhog.

 

[mckeetree]

mckeetree, have you tried marketing to a different clientele? Commercial / insurance work rather than residential? My biz is mostly residential, but I can stay reasonably busy by also contract climbing for two other tree services (in different towns). Marketing / advertising is my Achilles heel, and I depend a lot more on referrals and repeat customers than attracting new ones. I try to offer them friendly and efficient professional service at a reasonable price point. Sometimes way too reasonable, grrrrrr. A business relationship seems to change for me once the client begins to become a friend more than a client. Not good for "the bottom line"

The big outfits up here like Bartlett and Davey target municipalities, and big estate properties owned by multimillionaires. The rich cats aren't going to hire any outfit that doesn't come with a pedigree and a golden history.

We can roll with the punches but it has not been painless. We have just flat had to lower our rates on SOME services. Some, not all. We are charging the same on consultation, chemical application, stump grinding, air spade work and some other services. We have had to lower rates on pruning and removals. Removals are so cheap around here anymore you really have to rethink if you really even want to do them. We do some municipal work and haven't had to cut prices there. The brown crowd has a tough time around here with any job that requires much equipment. We are actually in a county next to Dallas county that is more rural and we probably have the best equipped residential tree service in this county but if they can tackle it with a beat up 1983 F250 and an old ragged out 16 ft. utility trailer look out. They will buy yellow page ads and they are pretty brazen. The gov. has looked the other way as far as they are concerned for so long now they figure they don't have to hide. Dozens of them drive around here with no DL like they own the place. I had to show my CDL about a month ago, can you believe it? Anyway, we have had to adapt, and yes, the CA credential along with every other credential or license or type of ins. is getting to be a harder sell everyday.

 

[mckeetree]

Things that can be done politically to create a truly fair playing field by making everyone play by the same rules, should be done. Instead of punishing those that play by the rules, no more rules, at least not until everyone is playing by the ones we have.

Roll me one of tho....no, seriously, well I was pretty serious, that is not going to happen.

 

[lxt]

mckee has hit it right on, I dont have to compete with the same crowd but in some instances its a worse kinda crowd, Americans outta work who cashed in their 401k or what was left of it, they have no skills but manged to buy a pickup, some lawn equip, chainsaws, ropes, etc... they ran their unemployment out & now qualify for some obama entitlements. their grocery carts are full with product I cant afford............so they go out with farwood in mind, no insurance, no nothing, they throw up their aluminum ladder & start a cuttin, a marlboro hanging outta mouth, no PPE & the eagerness to make $500 for the week & have their sons load up a cord or 2 with the ford ranger!

Now im all for earning a living but like mckee said, its going backwards, to be self employed wont be worth it untill this country regulates illegals, creates jobs & makes it a neccessity to be credentialed, licensed, insured & to pay taxes!!! Now as for the ISA...........whelp fellas & girls, they`re selling alot of their stuff in spanish & if the poor illegal ******* cant read they have picture pages & CD`s with a speaker walking them through whatever they need, its almost as though the ISA has a plan to capitalize on this....like they know illegals are going to have a future impact & will be the main players, so from their point of view: "why make the CA any harder? cause then habib wont be able to pass the test"




LXT................

 

[timberland ts]

The problem is the isa and others arent marketing the right areas. Take for example the angus association they market to the consumerand get great results. I agree that the cert means next to nothing besides passing a test. Ive seen real good certified tree guys and some piss poor. As far as getting low balled i see i form both sides pickup hillbillies and the big guys making payroll. I got hooked up with some campgrounds and small local towns which helps alot. If you want to make it isnt easy. Im just a little fish swimming in a big pond.

 

[mckeetree]

The problem is the isa and others arent marketing the right areas.

You are right. ISA and TCIA are unheard of by the consumer.

 

[jefflovstrom]

You are right. ISA and TCIA are unheard of by the consumer.

If the consumer is a home owner, right.
Where I work (not residential), you need it.
Jeff:msp_smile:

 

[mckeetree]

If the consumer is a home owner, right.
Where I work (not residential), you need it.
Jeff:msp_smile:

Yeah, yeah, you are right.

 

[Pelorus]

Looked at a very nice website a tree co. owner posted over on the Buzz.
What really stuck out to me, (besides the high quality if the website). was the comment that using SEO, "affordable" generates far more hits than "certified arborist". I think the actual comment ran more like "nobody is looking for a certified arborist" using SEO.

I find that kinda sobering; the ISA is promoting a product that customers are not looking for.

 

[mckeetree]

I find that kinda sobering; the ISA is promoting a product that customers are not looking for.

They don't know what it is. You don't look for what you don't know about. They know about "affordable" and "cheap."