What about the 'Request for Bid' and needing the requirement? Hey, your call, I don't know your demographic's or local reg's,,
Heck,,$45 buck's,, Just curious.
Jeff
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What about the 'Request for Bid' and needing the requirement? Hey, your call, I don't know your demographic's or local reg's,,
Heck,,$45 buck's,, Just curious.
Jeff
With all due respect, power to ya. You may be hooked on the good part of the cert bandwagon--prove yourself able, pay attention to ethics, move up, move on. the costs are a trifle compared to the benefits of learning. re getting paid haha i've gone from articles to books and getting zip for that...but i got no argument w what you guys are saying; it aint all true but much is, sad to say.
But it's a whole lot easier to critique ceu training than to make it happen.
treeman82
Addicted to ArboristSite
What about the 'Request for Bid' and needing the requirement? Hey, your call, I don't know your demographic's or local reg's,,
Heck,,$45 buck's,, Just curious.
Jeff
RFP is supposed to require licensing through the state, which I will maintain for another 5? years. However contracting entities tend to take bids from non-licensed firms right along side the licensed ones.
Treeman I can understand your frustration with the failed system in Ct.
A few points...
CTPA does provide a convenient avenue to acquire points to maintain your license.
They also bring in good speakers from the industry discussing the latest issues.
The organization dose have some legislative weight at the State house.
A few points...
CTPA does provide a convenient avenue to acquire points to maintain your license.
They also bring in good speakers from the industry discussing the latest issues.
The organization dose have some legislative weight at the State house.
Seer....you write those articles & do the detective Dendro with no compensation? I apologize, i really thought you would get paid for all that??? thats true dedication on your part!!!
Oh,,,,,CJ, not a bad video, what I find really strange is the close up shot of you in a small tree, no shirt on, drinking from yer bottle & talking some good crap, nice color & clarity &...............then all of a sudden we see a video that looks like it was shot on 8mm, for all I know big foot could of been doing all that..............LOL
Soooo maybe you have skills or are just a novice making it look like you are doing what you cant, IDK..........but if that was all you???? I dont get why you would make/put yourself in a position of coming off like an idiot? clearly the latter of the video shows someone with talent but me wishing to be you..........? HELL NO! ive been there, done that & would never ever talk the line of stupidity you do! be humble, tree care deserves more $$$$.........Not Less!
LXT...............
Oh,,,,,CJ, not a bad video, what I find really strange is the close up shot of you in a small tree, no shirt on, drinking from yer bottle & talking some good crap, nice color & clarity &...............then all of a sudden we see a video that looks like it was shot on 8mm, for all I know big foot could of been doing all that..............LOL
Soooo maybe you have skills or are just a novice making it look like you are doing what you cant, IDK..........but if that was all you???? I dont get why you would make/put yourself in a position of coming off like an idiot? clearly the latter of the video shows someone with talent but me wishing to be you..........? HELL NO! ive been there, done that & would never ever talk the line of stupidity you do! be humble, tree care deserves more $$$$.........Not Less!
LXT...............
AirBorneMutha
ArboristSite Lurker
Is that mike's hard lemonade you're drinking?
Ha ha, I didn't want to be the first to say something, but, classic example of self love and ego without thinking pro's can see it. Kinda cool tho!
Jeff :msp_biggrin:
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
I was a CA and I let it go. Not having it hasn't changed much for me personally. With that being said, I'm planning on retaking it soon.
Aside from my personal feelings about ISA, they have done a good job of promoting themselves to the general public. To a lot of HO and association board members, and city officials that Cert carries weight, even if we don't feel the same.
If you're asked by an association board member during a bid if your Certified your only option is to say no. They don't want to hear a rant on the politics of the ISA. The public trust the ISA and a Certified Arborist is trusted to be an expert. We know the reality, but Joe home owner doesn't.
Plus think what a bcma in front of your name can do. In some areas and to those of the general public who are making an effort to find good tree people hiring a CA is all they got to base their decisions on. So if I'm not certified, some gardener who has one will get the job before me, without it I'm not even in the contest.
Aside from my personal feelings about ISA, they have done a good job of promoting themselves to the general public. To a lot of HO and association board members, and city officials that Cert carries weight, even if we don't feel the same.
If you're asked by an association board member during a bid if your Certified your only option is to say no. They don't want to hear a rant on the politics of the ISA. The public trust the ISA and a Certified Arborist is trusted to be an expert. We know the reality, but Joe home owner doesn't.
Plus think what a bcma in front of your name can do. In some areas and to those of the general public who are making an effort to find good tree people hiring a CA is all they got to base their decisions on. So if I'm not certified, some gardener who has one will get the job before me, without it I'm not even in the contest.
Pelorus
Uva uvam vivendo varia fit
A "CA" after my name hasn't done anything, so I doubt a "BCMA" would either!
Years ago when the ISA spawned the BCMA, I had my little black heart all set on becoming one. Then, I had a bad accident which caused a reevaluation of career choices, and I let my memberships and CA lapse. Have gradually got back into the groove, but my opinion is far different about the ISA now then it was 6 or 7 years ago. Have lost that loving feeling.
I think if I asked a random group of people up here what the ISA is, or does, or represents, nobody would have a clue. There might just be a big difference in the public's awareness of that outfit depending on geography.
Years ago when the ISA spawned the BCMA, I had my little black heart all set on becoming one. Then, I had a bad accident which caused a reevaluation of career choices, and I let my memberships and CA lapse. Have gradually got back into the groove, but my opinion is far different about the ISA now then it was 6 or 7 years ago. Have lost that loving feeling.
I think if I asked a random group of people up here what the ISA is, or does, or represents, nobody would have a clue. There might just be a big difference in the public's awareness of that outfit depending on geography.
'A "CA" after my name hasn't done anything'
Is that only the fault of the cert, or maybe in part a lack of promoting it? beastmaster, good on you for sucking up your pride and retaking. i had to in the mid-90's, when my attention span and attitude failed me; no regrets.
'I doubt a "BCMA" would either!'
It could if you use it well. It's been a great investment for me. I was among the first dozen to take it 9 years ago, and it gets me good jobs--no price shoppers, just quality seekers.
' my opinion is far different about the ISA now then it was 6 or 7 years ago. Have lost that loving feeling.'
me too but mine has been replaced by a liking-well-enough feeling. :msp_tongue:
'I think if I asked a random group of people up here what the ISA is, or does, or represents, nobody would have a clue. There might just be a big difference in the public's awareness of that outfit depending on geography.'
o i just saw 300+ Ontario arborists at their conference last week who would beg to differ . They are all investing in and reaping the benefits of isa's efforts and their chapter's. The ones I met seemed far from fools--they taught me a lot and opened my eyes to some great work they are doing. :msp_thumbup:
It's very easy to criticize here, but very profitable to promote on the job. Bottom line, Where is your energy best invested?
Is that only the fault of the cert, or maybe in part a lack of promoting it? beastmaster, good on you for sucking up your pride and retaking. i had to in the mid-90's, when my attention span and attitude failed me; no regrets.
'I doubt a "BCMA" would either!'
It could if you use it well. It's been a great investment for me. I was among the first dozen to take it 9 years ago, and it gets me good jobs--no price shoppers, just quality seekers.
' my opinion is far different about the ISA now then it was 6 or 7 years ago. Have lost that loving feeling.'
me too but mine has been replaced by a liking-well-enough feeling. :msp_tongue:
'I think if I asked a random group of people up here what the ISA is, or does, or represents, nobody would have a clue. There might just be a big difference in the public's awareness of that outfit depending on geography.'
o i just saw 300+ Ontario arborists at their conference last week who would beg to differ . They are all investing in and reaping the benefits of isa's efforts and their chapter's. The ones I met seemed far from fools--they taught me a lot and opened my eyes to some great work they are doing. :msp_thumbup:
It's very easy to criticize here, but very profitable to promote on the job. Bottom line, Where is your energy best invested?
cjtreeclimber
ArboristSite Operative
Every bit of that was from cell phone cameras of me working. I just want to get under your skin for talking drivel about the sacrifices I made in order to get where I'm at now. 95 % All my climbing and rigging Professional methodology I learned myself off you tube (thank God it was there for me!). The only thing that is cheap now is the idea of working for someone else for 15 - 20 an hour and what is expensive is what I'd charge you to use me for a day probably. Anyways, whats done is done, and I'm happy you like my vid. I have more on my channel, and Hoping to get a pro to record one of the bigger jobs I have coming up.
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mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
I only know two BCMA's. One does strictly consultation and is an A-1 first class guy. The other does consultation in addition to everything else including application and is knowledgeable enough but is a rip off artist. I don't have any interest in obtaining a BCMA. I'm a CA but as far as formal education relating to the green industry have more than either of the aforementioned BCMA's. I've been a licensed applicator for 30 years and have actually kept up with latest products. I know what they are and how to use them. I know guys with an applicator's license that don't know imidacloprid from permethrin from paclobutrazol from possum ####. I spoke with one yesterday at pizza hut. I think that particular idiot is actually doing applications under someone else license but he is out there trying to treat trees and this fool does not have a damn clue. I mean this jerk has no idea what he is applying.
Pelorus
Uva uvam vivendo varia fit
Treeseer, no disrespect intended here. I have been playing this game a long time. And I have been to two ISAO Annual conferences in the past where I felt my time and money was well spent. Ditto for some other seminars. I kinda get the sense that you feel the ISA is some kind of Sacred Cow that should be immune from criticism. I would suggest that criticism can actually benefit the ISA.
Lowering exam standards (to enable mediocrity to achieve the arbitrary standard). is wrong. I don't care if it is High School, or a job, or an organization like the ISA. Dropping the tree ID requirement from the CA was wrong. Dropping the minimum pass percentage requirements for each specific exam domain was wrong. Tell me why you old think otherwise? I the ISA did this just to generate more $$$. Dumb it down so more unqualified folks can now say they are "certified".
mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Good post and mirrors my thoughts on the CA exam. One the things folks that are really into the ISA are just going to have to accept is the fact when you get away from people in the trade nobody knows what the ISA is. I've noticed an individual on here that seems to be in denial about that fact. People have heard of a certified arborist but they have no idea what that really is or that it has anything to do with the ISA.
Pelorus
Uva uvam vivendo varia fit
It is difficult (for me) ethically to promotes an inferior product on consumers that is now being mass produced cheaply to maximize the company's profit margin. ie. the certified arborist program. It wasn't like this years ago.
If the fundamentalist ISA disciples want to evangelize the unwashed masses that's fine, but it is now a watered-down gospel that they are flogging nowadays re. certification. I find it a tad insulting to be criticized for pointing out that the donkey's teeth are worn down, and it's ribs are sticking out. If I didn't care about the damn donkey I wouldn't have forked over some money this year towards it's upkeep. (Chapter membership dues and CA certification).
If the fundamentalist ISA disciples want to evangelize the unwashed masses that's fine, but it is now a watered-down gospel that they are flogging nowadays re. certification. I find it a tad insulting to be criticized for pointing out that the donkey's teeth are worn down, and it's ribs are sticking out. If I didn't care about the damn donkey I wouldn't have forked over some money this year towards it's upkeep. (Chapter membership dues and CA certification).
it is difficult (for me) ethically to promotes an inferior product on consumers that is now being mass produced cheaply to maximize the company's profit margin. ie. the certified arborist program.
Me neither
I do it to maximize my own profit
And if they dont make money they cant exist
Can your biz?
Better a watered-down drink than thirst
Again no arguments on the slide but show me a better deal
Me neither
I do it to maximize my own profit
And if they dont make money they cant exist
Can your biz?
Better a watered-down drink than thirst
Again no arguments on the slide but show me a better deal
mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
The CA program is exactly today where I predicted it would be today thirteen years ago. One of the current problems it faces ties into part of this thread and several other threads and that is the fact that customers are starting to equate a CA with higher rates. It is a big problem in the south. We were talking earlier about how price has become king and it has. Price has become the king kong deal maker breaker in this business and it is going to get worse. People can beat around the bush all they want and say it's the "new economy" and I don't want to get on my soapbox but anyone that is even remotely intelligent knows what the real problem is. And it's about to get worse. I was on the phone last week with a Dallas, TX tree service owner that was talking about leaving mention of CA out of his ads. His words... "Hell, I don't know if it helps or hurts anymore. You know how people are nowadays and they see that and think you are going to be three times the price of Juan."
Pelorus
Uva uvam vivendo varia fit
Treeseer, I am guilty of not keeping up with technology re. self-promotion via a website, etc.
I do advertise the fact that I am an ISA CA, and a current ISAO Chapter member. It doesn't, and just has not accomplished anything positive that is discernible to date. I don't know if that is my fault, the ISA's fault, or Joe Public's fault, or any combination of all three. It is what it is.
Being unaware of a better deal doesn't mean I/we should be complacent or lackadaisical about a deterioration of accreditation standards. My own standards are not dropping in order to generate greater profits; consequently I am somewhat dismayed that the ISA would do so.
I do advertise the fact that I am an ISA CA, and a current ISAO Chapter member. It doesn't, and just has not accomplished anything positive that is discernible to date. I don't know if that is my fault, the ISA's fault, or Joe Public's fault, or any combination of all three. It is what it is.
Being unaware of a better deal doesn't mean I/we should be complacent or lackadaisical about a deterioration of accreditation standards. My own standards are not dropping in order to generate greater profits; consequently I am somewhat dismayed that the ISA would do so.
MackenzieTree
ArboristSite Member
so everyone feels that the isa or being a ca is not worth it and useless or too much money?
Pelorus
Uva uvam vivendo varia fit
It is like replacing a pair of worn out boots from a trusted manufacturer, and finding out the new ones are of lesser quality. Am just a tad disapointed that they certainly aren't as good as the old ones, even though the ISA claims they are. The bootmaker is producing lotsa different boots nowadays...
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