Its Electric!

[JRM]

If YOU own the means of production, who you going to pay for it? In fact, our local PUD PAYS YOU if you get a surplus from your system.

I can't tell if your being intentionally obtuse here. EVERYTHING costs. Your own system costs alot. You are on the hook for maintenance/repairs/replacement. It sounds wonderful to say something is free but you pretty much gotta be living in a fantasy world to believe it. I'll say it again, You either pay the rates or pay for the equipment. And maintenance. And repairs. 10,15,20 yrs down the line You could come out ahead or break even or lose your rear. That's a gamble you take. Nothing is free.
For now I'll happily pay my $150-$175 a month electric bill during the winter in an all electric home (minus heat) where my teenage kids leave every dang light on in the house and wife works from home. I got big juicy equipment in the garage that gets used on a regular basis. Someone is here round the clock day in and day out spinning the meter. It's more than acceptable in my view.

I grew up in Wyoming collecting dead wood and occasionally dug up coal for heat. Been there done that, it wasn't fun! I'm still heating with wood all these years later, but do it my way - outdoor unit and half (barely)modern equipment. No more mauls and axes and shovels for this guy.
Oh, and the wood just happens to be a lot more plentiful and easier to get around here, too.

 

[Bill G]

If yer feeling real spritely you can drive to Places in Montana and Wyoming, probably Kentucky too take a shovel and wheelbarrow and dig your own coal, fill up a truck with it, no one will probably notice or care. Drive home build a low pressure boiler (its easy) a homemade turbine or piston type engine and start your very own steam plant, granted to be worth a damn, that ones going to need a helluva lot more coal then one pickup load.

Or I could just walk over the hill to one of the mines my grandfather mined coal out of for years. It would take a lot of digging though as they are long since collapsed and the biggest critter that can fit in there now are coons

Lots of coal throughout Illinois. Down in southern Illinois they have oil also

 

[TRTermite]

Or I could just walk over the hill to one of the mines my grandfather mined coal out of for years. It would take a lot of digging though as they are long since collapsed and the biggest critter that can fit in there now are coons

Lots of coal throughout Illinois. Down in southern Illinois they have oil also

We evidently had coal in south east Nebraska. Some how there was problems with Iron horse Lake leaking in Dubois due to UNKNOWN Mine shafts.. I wasn't in getting real facts just miscellaneous tidbits back when it was being built.

 

[Hermio]

Have you been to places that have wind farms? Wind River for example, is called wind river, because the wind simply doesn't stop, the Ellensburg wind farm is very similar only smaller.
Some of the wind mills maybe stopped and not turning, however, thats becuase they have been shut down to reduce wear as at the moment they are not needed, same thing happens in most power stations, not every generator is running 24-7, if they are... then its simply not an adequate system (cough "texas" cough)

As for tidal, personally one of my favorites, you ever try to stop the tide? 11' or more feet of water ever 6 hours or so. not to mention the smaller waves that are constant.

Yeah solar has nighttime, but again, batteries are not as expensive as you are lead to believe, seeing how they can last upwards of 10 or more years. And can be replaced by a 7 year old with a crescent hammer.

Coal, NG, LPG, Diesel, even with clean tech, still emits massive amounts of CO2 even after scrubbing, not to mention YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR FUEL, everyday, all day, at rates controlled by some greedy prick.

I am talking about utility-scale batteries that can store many megawatt-hours. As I said, such batteries exceed the cost of a new facility when designed for 3 days backup. And they do only last 10 years, and then you have a toxic waste disposal problem. As for CO2, I don't care, Only 0.28% of all greenhouse gasses come from human activity. Our impact on climate is negligible, and we can adapt to whatever climate change happens, as we have done for 200,000 years.

 

[northmanlogging]

I can't tell if your being intentionally obtuse here. EVERYTHING costs. Your own system costs alot. You are on the hook for maintenance/repairs/replacement. It sounds wonderful to say something is free but you pretty much gotta be living in a fantasy world to believe it. I'll say it again, You either pay the rates or pay for the equipment. And maintenance. And repairs. 10,15,20 yrs down the line You could come out ahead or break even or lose your rear. That's a gamble you take. Nothing is free.
For now I'll happily pay my $150-$175 a month electric bill during the winter in an all electric home (minus heat) where my teenage kids leave every dang light on in the house and wife works from home. I got big juicy equipment in the garage that gets used on a regular basis. Someone is here round the clock day in and day out spinning the meter. It's more than acceptable in my view.

I grew up in Wyoming collecting dead wood and occasionally dug up coal for heat. Been there done that, it wasn't fun! I'm still heating with wood all these years later, but do it my way - outdoor unit and half (barely)modern equipment. No more mauls and axes and shovels for this guy.
Oh, and the wood just happens to be a lot more plentiful and easier to get around here, too.

175 a month x 12 $2100 a year, x 10 years (ass-u-meing the rates don't go up) $21000, Bet you could get a real good solar system with a 20 year life span for that much.

 

[northmanlogging]

I am talking about utility-scale batteries that can store many megawatt-hours. As I said, such batteries exceed the cost of a new facility when designed for 3 days backup. And they do only last 10 years, and then you have a toxic waste disposal problem. As for CO2, I don't care, Only 0.28% of all greenhouse gasses come from human activity. Our impact on climate is negligible, and we can adapt to whatever climate change happens, as we have done for 200,000 years.

1st yer an idiot if you think .28% of CO2 is alllll that humans produce
2nd yer a blind idiot if you think our impact is negligible.
3rd, THE BATTERIES ARE RECYCLABLE
4th, the battery backups are totally affordable for municipal systems, https://www.commerce.wa.gov/growing-the-economy/energy/clean-energy-fund/energy-grid-modernization/ Helluva lot cheaper then a new fossil fuel fired plant

 

[northmanlogging]

I can't tell if your being intentionally obtuse here. EVERYTHING costs. Your own system costs alot. You are on the hook for maintenance/repairs/replacement. It sounds wonderful to say something is free but you pretty much gotta be living in a fantasy world to believe it. I'll say it again, You either pay the rates or pay for the equipment. And maintenance. And repairs. 10,15,20 yrs down the line You could come out ahead or break even or lose your rear. That's a gamble you take. Nothing is free.
For now I'll happily pay my $150-$175 a month electric bill during the winter in an all electric home (minus heat) where my teenage kids leave every dang light on in the house and wife works from home. I got big juicy equipment in the garage that gets used on a regular basis. Someone is here round the clock day in and day out spinning the meter. It's more than acceptable in my view.

I grew up in Wyoming collecting dead wood and occasionally dug up coal for heat. Been there done that, it wasn't fun! I'm still heating with wood all these years later, but do it my way - outdoor unit and half (barely)modern equipment. No more mauls and axes and shovels for this guy.
Oh, and the wood just happens to be a lot more plentiful and easier to get around here, too.

And again, you could go out and source the materials yourself, and make your own literally from scratch, its just easier, and really, cheaper to pay someone else to build them, if thats your ***** about someones always controlling the money, then why do anything ever, just hide in a cave and eat raw meat and roots FFS.

 

[JRM]

And again, you could go out and source the materials yourself, and make your own literally from scratch, its just easier, and really, cheaper to pay someone else to build them, if thats your ***** about someones always controlling the money, then why do anything ever, just hide in a cave and eat raw meat and roots FFS.

How big a system do you have?

 

[northmanlogging]

How big a system do you have?

currently, just a pannel on the equipment trailer, however its mostly because i dont plan on keeping this house, the next house however, will be as close to off grid as i can make it

 

[JRM]

Promoting something you have zero experience in. Kind of like a politician! Do as I say, not as I do.

 

[Lightning Performance]

The carriage of large equipment should be redesigned with wheel or track drive motors with a large battery tray that smaller units slip into with the cell to cell monitor wiring in the perimeter for monitoring each unit or block of cells. Add in your hydrologic drive motors while your down there but on the upper hub portion not the lower chassis. The unit bays can always be replaced with ballast weights down bottom if not needed. Maintaining them shouldn't change much from any hybrid system. Hybrids can charge their own batteries overnight if needed with a tiny efficient gen set or use your track drive motors unlocked at the clutch of course. The main bus bar should be in the center section for safety reasons and containment from prying hands. A belly pan should be a catch all for any fluid leaks on this machine. A solar panel roof covered in glass might not be a bad idea just because but put it under your headache rack. Using a diesel or other fired generator is almost a must in remote locations to make electric drive power or store it short term. The cost initially will go up 50% but corporations understand long term investments better than most individuals plus they plan ahead for it, you'll see soon enough.

If your going for zero emissions water to hydrogen is about the cheapest fuel your ever going to get or drag in hydrogen produced elsewhere but the transport cost will soon kill the savings. You need to be thinking about large monsters that make their own fuel onboard from water. You still need a filtered clean water source and a supply method. Moving a solar array is a giant waste of time and money in the mountains imho.

Electric felling saws for large woodland or mountain operations, um no. Maybe at landing areas. Residential and Urban outfits... all day long could be running electric. Swapping batteries and being able to actually hear the ground crew while climbing, priceless. Bucking chunks with electric is a no brainer with or without an extension cord.

They should be making felling/falling saws louder and faster than today's best offerings, fact.
I'd like to see how electric chainsaws cope with coastal weather, fire lines and salt air in general. I suspect they won't do well on docks and coastal piling work near salt water over time.

A steam powered modern chainsaw power head would be something to see on a cold morning up north. You could just run the landing saw off of the burn barrel with a mini boiler tank and some bunk laying around the site

 

[Bill G]

The carriage of large equipment should be redesigned with wheel or track drive motors with a large battery tray that smaller units slip into with the cell to cell monitor wiring in the perimeter for monitoring each unit or block of cells. Add in your hydrologic drive motors while your down there but on the upper hub portion not the lower chassis. The unit bays can always be replaced with ballast weights down bottom if not needed. Maintaining them shouldn't change much from any hybrid system. Hybrids can charge their own batteries overnight if needed with a tiny efficient gen set or use your track drive motors unlocked at the clutch of course. The main bus bar should be in the center section for safety reasons and containment from prying hands. A belly pan should be a catch all for any fluid leaks on this machine. A solar panel roof covered in glass might not be a bad idea just because but put it under your headache rack. Using a diesel or other fired generator is almost a must in remote locations to make electric drive power or store it short term. The cost initially will go up 50% but corporations understand long term investments better than most individuals plus they plan ahead for it, you'll see soon enough.

If your going for zero emissions water to hydrogen is about the cheapest fuel your ever going to get or drag in hydrogen produced elsewhere but the transport cost will soon kill the savings. You need to be thinking about large monsters that make their own fuel onboard from water. You still need a filtered clean water source and a supply method. Moving a solar array is a giant waste of time and money in the mountains imho.

Electric felling saws for large woodland or mountain operations, um no. Maybe at landing areas. Residential and Urban outfits... all day long could be running electric. Swapping batteries and being able to actually hear the ground crew while climbing, priceless. Bucking chunks with electric is a no brainer with or without an extension cord.

They should be making felling/falling saws louder and faster than today's best offerings, fact.
I'd like to see how electric chainsaws cope with coastal weather, fire lines and salt air in general. I suspect they won't do well on docks and coastal piling work near salt water over time.

A steam powered modern chainsaw power head would be something to see on a cold morning up north. You could just run the landing saw off of the burn barrel with a mini boiler tank and some bunk laying around the site So how do ya port a

So how do ya port an electric saw?

 

[northmanlogging]

Promoting something you have zero experience in. Kind of like a politician! Do as I say, not as I do.

thats your answer? Pathetic, even for you.
just because I don't have one now, you discount any and all experience I do have, get F'ed

 

[JRM]

thats your answer? Pathetic, even for you.
just because I don't have one now, you discount any and all experience I do have, get F'ed

By your own account your experience is A solar maintainer.
Hey Karen, good luck with your FREE power systems, that you don't have enough faith in to own.

 

[northmanlogging]

By your own account your experience is A solar maintainer.
Hey Karen, good luck with your FREE power systems, that you don't have enough faith in to own.

I never claimed to be an installer.
Seriously though WTF is wrong with your brain? You don't understand something so rather then admit your failures you seek out any excuse to justify your own ignorance? Thats some seriously F'd up mentality.

For the record, I have a guy working on a quote today, I would need a free standing array, because my house points the wrong direction, but I should have actual numbers for a working unit soon, not inflated website stuff.

 

[JRM]

Nothing is wrong with my brain, it works just fine. I just tend to take people with real world experience way more serious than ones with out. Is that such a bold concept?
And you should be wary also because there is a lot of garbage being put out there on the market. I've seen people (locally) get burned with fine print warranties and be on the hook for failures long before the equipment paid was paid for. It's a gamble with big implications.

If you go back and read my posts from the beginning I'm not against any tech that has been discussed here (except batteries).
All I've done, that you obviously can't handle, because thats where you started with the insults and crying, is call out your factually false "free power" statements. That's all it took.

 

[slowp]

The carriage of large equipment should be redesigned with wheel or track drive motors with a large battery tray that smaller units slip into with the cell to cell monitor wiring in the perimeter for monitoring each unit or block of cells. Add in your hydrologic drive motors while your down there but on the upper hub portion not the lower chassis. The unit bays can always be replaced with ballast weights down bottom if not needed. Maintaining them shouldn't change much from any hybrid system. Hybrids can charge their own batteries overnight if needed with a tiny efficient gen set or use your track drive motors unlocked at the clutch of course. The main bus bar should be in the center section for safety reasons and containment from prying hands. A belly pan should be a catch all for any fluid leaks on this machine. A solar panel roof covered in glass might not be a bad idea just because but put it under your headache rack. Using a diesel or other fired generator is almost a must in remote locations to make electric drive power or store it short term. The cost initially will go up 50% but corporations understand long term investments better than most individuals plus they plan ahead for it, you'll see soon enough.

If your going for zero emissions water to hydrogen is about the cheapest fuel your ever going to get or drag in hydrogen produced elsewhere but the transport cost will soon kill the savings. You need to be thinking about large monsters that make their own fuel onboard from water. You still need a filtered clean water source and a supply method. Moving a solar array is a giant waste of time and money in the mountains imho.

Electric felling saws for large woodland or mountain operations, um no. Maybe at landing areas. Residential and Urban outfits... all day long could be running electric. Swapping batteries and being able to actually hear the ground crew while climbing, priceless. Bucking chunks with electric is a no brainer with or without an extension cord.

They should be making felling/falling saws louder and faster than today's best offerings, fact.
I'd like to see how electric chainsaws cope with coastal weather, fire lines and salt air in general. I suspect they won't do well on docks and coastal piling work near salt water over time.

A steam powered modern chainsaw power head would be something to see on a cold morning up north. You could just run the landing saw off of the burn barrel with a mini boiler tank and some bunk laying around the site

A good friend, who just turned 70, won an electric chainsaw. She has an actively managed tree farm. She goes out each day and works a while, cleaning things up and really likes the little e-saw. The battery goes dead just as she's getting tired of cutting up limbs and brush. Yes, they work in the rain. And yes, it's going to be a while before a large, production capable saw appears.

These same friends were off grid for a decade in their nice house. It was during the 1980s. Solar panels were pretty primitive, but they got enough juice most of the year to power lights. Washer, dryer, vacuum had to go off generator power, and water was heated by a system through the woodstove or solar or propane. The house was heated, and still is, by a woodstove. They also were able to supplement their power with a Pelton wheel, except the water would dry up in the summer. They pretty much designed their house for passive solar and if the sun comes out, it heats up the house. They live on the rainy side. The PUD eventually moved their powerlines to where my friends could hook into it for much cheaper. So that's what they did. He did mention that he kinda wished he hadn't sold their panels. They do have power outages when the big storms go through or flooding knocks things out.

I've thought about solar panels on my roof. It has maximum exposure to the south, but I'm not sure I'll stay here much longer.

As to having to not pay anything for anything, that's really a stupid argument. If you drive, you are using the biggest moneypit of all--depreciation, fuel and maintenance costs, insurance, licensing all must be paid. And yet, you all own vehicles.

 

[northmanlogging]

Nothing is wrong with my brain, it works just fine. I just tend to take people with real world experience way more serious than ones with out. Is that such a bold concept?
And you should be wary also because there is a lot of garbage being put out there on the market. I've seen people (locally) get burned with fine print warranties and be on the hook for failures long before the equipment paid was paid for. It's a gamble with big implications.

If you go back and read my posts from the beginning I'm not against any tech that has been discussed here (except batteries).
All I've done, that you obviously can't handle, because thats where you started with the insults and crying, is call out your factually false "free power" statements. That's all it took.

you assume a great deal, i werked next to outback power when they were just starting, had 1/2 a single bay shop, good friend of mine helped engineer the first commercially viable inverters, my bass player built one of the first all electric cars in this state, as well as being the first guy to install solar with grid intertie in this county, i've helped build passive solar water heaters, that werk even in pnw winters.


but since i dont currently own a solar system, im the one thats full of ****?

yeah, totally valid




Edit: some wild typos, even for me.

 

[slowp]

I own a whole 100 watt solar panel and use it while camping. It works well for what I want it for. No need for a heavy generator that is high on the list of things burglars want. It fits under the bed in my trailer when not needed and can be moved around to follow the sun when needed. Now, I could get one that would roll up and weigh much less, and next year there would be even better panels. Like everything else, 'cept for human thinking brains, solar is always evolving and getting more efficient.
And, yes, this is in the evening in the shade, but ready for the next day.

 

[Gologit]

Nice looking trailer.