It's not the ethenol!!

[Hermio]

Aromatics typically make the exhaust smell sweet FWIW.

I remember the smell of Benzene from my college days. Haven't come into contact with it since. I have smelled and used toluene, but my nose does not decode it as sweet.

 

[bwalker]

I don't have a problem with ethanol as a fuel when the engines are made for it. Brazil has been using flex-fuel vehicles for years. It is a bit newer in the USA. But I have used E10 in multiple vehicles over the years, generally keeping them for 250,000 miles or more. I never had a fuel-related problem. I am a bit more concerned about it in small engines and vehicles used less frequently, such as MY UTV and ZTR. But so far, I have not had problems with them or in my chainsaws either. The only small engine problem I have had was with my heavy-duty Stihl weed whacker/brush cutter, when I let fuel sit in the tank for two years. But I probably would have had problems with any fuel. I now empty it and run it dry when I don't plan to use it for a while.

Car and trucks don't have problems with ethanol because they use stainless metal parts ethanol resistant plastic parts in their fuel systems. There are no rubber metering diaphragm or float bowls that sit full of fuel.
Totally different situation than a small carburetor equiped engine.

 

[bwalker]

I remember the smell of Benzene from my college days. Haven't come into contact with it since. I have smelled and used toluene, but my nose does not decode it as sweet.

When it burns in a motor it is. When guys talk about the smell of race gas they are smelling aromatics and lead.

 

[Hermio]

Car and trucks don't have problems with ethanol because they use stainless metal parts ethanol resistant plastic parts in their fuel systems. There are no rubber metering diaphragm or float bowls that sit full of fuel.
Totally different situation than a small carburetor equiped engine.

Yes, that is why I mentioned the caveat that the engine must be designed for it. My Stihl MS500i manual explicitly states that it is ok for up to 10% ethanol. That having been said, even though I have never had a problem with E10 in chainsaws over the last 30 years, I prefer non-ethanol fuel when I can get it.

 

[Hermio]

When it burns in a motor it is. When guys talk about the smell of race gas they are smelling aromatics and lead.

I have no experience smelling race gasoline.

 

[bwalker]

I have no experience smelling race gasoline.

The other thing is if you look up the properties of benzene, Toluene or Xylene it almost always mentions they have a sweet oder.

 

[HansFranz]

The other thing is if you look up the properties of benzene, Toluene or Xylene it almost always mentions they have a sweet oder

 

[Sidecarflip]

I'll stick with canned gas for all I use my small power equipment, thank you.. Corn gas is a net loser for domestic use and always has been. Takes more energy to produce a gallon of corn liquor than the gallon produces among other issues. Issues like distillers want only certain varieties of corn grown and distillers want pre growth contract prices to be as tight as possible no matter the cost of inputs plus corn alcohol is corrosive and cannot be transmitted in conventional pipelines. Must be trucked to the refinery in dedicated tank cars or trucks and then blended in and then how do you really know it's 10% by volume other than what it states on the pump? Over 10% is death on small engines, especially air cooled ones. For my infrequent use, I'll stick with canned gas, in my situation, Echo Red Armor, 50-1..

We have a local distiller close by but no row cropper I know of around here grows e-corn and that includes me.

 

[capejwc]

Try K100 gas additive in non ethanol fuel. Had excellent results with it cleaning carbs, stabilizing fuel and storage.

 

[benz66]

I started using E-10 in cars, and trucks and my BMW R75/5 (1971) when it first became available in Iowa (1973 or 1974). All those vehicles were made before E-10 was available. The BMW and Mercedes were supposed to have premium only, but they run just fine on the E-10 with 88 or 89 octane. I have never had a fuel related problem. It IS important so never let gasoline get stale. For small engines and chainsaws, I use E-10 all the time. If the thing is going to sit more than over winter, I drain the tank and run the carb dry (Especially chainsaws). My 015 Stihl is 50 yrs old. and has run on e-10 its whole life. If it is going to sit more than a month or two, I dump out the fuel, and start the saw and run it until it is dry. I never let mixed gas sit more than 6 months for chainsaw, and keep it in a closed gascan. I did preemptively have the guy who sold the 015 put a carb kit in in 2018 as a preemptive measure. Stihl robbed him of his dealership, but he still fixes the saws the fancy stihler sells and can't fix.

I have seen gastanks ruined in cars that sat for years. I won a generac portable genset, brought it hime, put it away and didn't check it for 3 years. They obviously had e-10 in it, and I didn't drain it. That tank is messed up.

 

[sean donato]

What a lot of people failed to remember is we had plenty of carb issues back before ethonal came around, the ethonal made the problems 100 fold worse, at first it was from resolving the sludge/ varnish oit of the old fuel systems then water absorption quickly became an issue, the failure of rubber components was the next issue. Auto mfgs quickly fixed these issues and plenty of solutions became available from the aftermarket for older vehicles. I clearly remember having issues with my 73 f-250 fuel system shortly after e-10 was mandated in all pump gas around here. Didn't take long before I had soft fuel lines and the carb was gunked up. Went with a newer holley carb, Teflon lined fuel hoses and an electric fuel pump and haven't had an issue with it since. It's the only vehicle I own that get the fuel treated regularly since it isn't driven much.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

Yep, I have 14 years turning wrenches full time in a shop I owned doing small engines (even longer for myself and as a side gig) that says that YouTuber is dead wrong.

Used to be that if you let equipment sit for 7-10 years, depending on the climate, you'd get black to tan varnish or goo stuck all over the jets and passageways, and float & bowl. Back then we also had good carb cleaners that would eat right through that crap in no time flat. These days, with EPA watering down of all our chemicals, you can use carb or brake cleaner as an eye wash ...

Ethanol has sped the clogging process up by 1,000x. Not only that, but it's propensity for water DESTROYS carburetors if left long enough. I've seen unrepairable carburetors just completely eaten away by corrosive water/ethanol mixtures, plus all the other crap in fuel these days. That NEVER happened back in the day! Unless you sunk it in the ocean for 10 years and decided to restore it!

 

[Hermio]

The other thing is if you look up the properties of benzene, Toluene or Xylene it almost always mentions they have a sweet oder.

Yes, they do. But it does not smell sweet to me.

 

[Hermio]

I'll stick with canned gas for all I use my small power equipment, thank you.. Corn gas is a net loser for domestic use and always has been. Takes more energy to produce a gallon of corn liquor than the gallon produces among other issues. Issues like distillers want only certain varieties of corn grown and distillers want pre growth contract prices to be as tight as possible no matter the cost of inputs plus corn alcohol is corrosive and cannot be transmitted in conventional pipelines. Must be trucked to the refinery in dedicated tank cars or trucks and then blended in and then how do you really know it's 10% by volume other than what it states on the pump? Over 10% is death on small engines, especially air cooled ones. For my infrequent use, I'll stick with canned gas, in my situation, Echo Red Armor, 50-1..

We have a local distiller close by but no row cropper I know of around here grows e-corn and that includes me.

Actually, your info is at least 30 years out of date. When the first ethanol-from-corn plants were built, it did indeed take more energy to produce the ethanol that would be yielded by burning it. But the technology has improved. Today's ethanol plants produce roughly 5 times as much energy as they take to produce it. They also yield a protein-rich byproduct that is better for cattle feed than straight corn. Sugar cane ethanol produces even more energy. Cellulosic ethanol produces about 13 times as much energy as it takes to produce it. Farming technology has also improved, such that today's yield is so high that the available corn after ethanol production has actually increased dramatically. Ethanol may not be an ideal fuel for some engines, but we know how to design for it now. I hope to see more ethanol production from waste products, making it both renewable and a net reduction in waste. Petroleum has higher energy density but may not last forever, and it is definitely a dirtier fuel to burn. And I am not talking about CO2. I don't really care about carbon footprint, as human greenhouse gas emissions only account for about 0.28% of total greenhouses gasses in the atmosphere. But I do care about renewable energy sources and not sending money to middle east nations who want to kill us.

 

[bwalker]

Actually, your info is at least 30 years out of date. When the first ethanol-from-corn plants were built, it did indeed take more energy to produce the ethanol that would be yielded by burning it. But the technology has improved. Today's ethanol plants produce roughly 5 times as much energy as they take to produce it. They also yield a protein-rich byproduct that is better for cattle feed than straight corn. Sugar cane ethanol produces even more energy. Cellulosic ethanol produces about 13 times as much energy as it takes to produce it. Farming technology has also improved, such that today's yield is so high that the available corn after ethanol production has actually increased dramatically. Ethanol may not be an ideal fuel for some engines, but we know how to design for it now. I hope to see more ethanol production from waste products, making it both renewable and a net reduction in waste. Petroleum has higher energy density but may not last forever, and it is definitely a dirtier fuel to burn. And I am not talking about CO2. I don't really care about carbon footprint, as human greenhouse gas emissions only account for about 0.28% of total greenhouses gasses in the atmosphere. But I do care about renewable energy sources and not sending money to middle east nations who want to kill us.

I would say it's important to look at the methodologies of those studies given ethanol is a political issue. I haven't reviewed an energy balance study recently, but years ago when I was in college many of them where quite dubious.

 

[Bill G]

I have no experience smelling race gasoline.

It smells good

 

[Bill G]

Ethanol is not the enemy!
Misinformation and the lack of common sense is.

 

[Patrick62]

Steve is a nut, but he has a point.
Why is ethanol in there?
To add oxygen to the fuel. Cleaner emissions.
Gentlemen, we are running a 2 cycle engine. emissions really should be pretty low on the list of concerns.
Yeah, they put some odd stuff in the gasoline. I am pleased that some folks are having success with stabil
I run the expensive stuff from an airport, and have not had issues with carburetor diaphrams (yet).

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

Only problem with 100LL is lead - it leaves buildup after a while (Looks like a light-colored carbon - that's the whitish / grayish stuff you see in the exhaust after running it), and if you've got homeowner equipment with catalytic converters it'll plug them up pretty quick. It'll eventually foul plugs, too. Usually not a big problem with air-cooled equipment run in the summer, but if you run it in winter (like a leaf blower for powdery snow) the chances of fouling go up. Not only that, but it's expensive per gallon. Cheaper than Tru-Fuel ... but not the cheapest option.

They make an aircraft additive (TCP) that fixes that, but it's PRICEY (Further proof, NOTHING in aviation is cheap!).

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alcortcp.php?clickkey=78782

It's better to drive to a state that sells E0 at the pump, and stockpile (55 gallon drum).

 

[Hermio]

I would say it's important to look at the methodologies of those studies given ethanol is a political issue. I haven't reviewed an energy balance study recently, but years ago when I was in college many of them where quite dubious.

Sure, there are political motivations. But multiple studies have been done over the years. Like any other area of human endeavor, the technology tends to improve with time.