Jobsite efficiency

[ZinTrees]

Sitting around wondering, how can we be the most efficient and get trees down and cleaned up as fast as possible

Right now, 2 guys, forestry bucket and 12" chipper, mini ex and 14ft dump trailer

Every part of the job is a hold up, 2 hour jobs take 8 to 10 hours sometimes

I know me and my dad (both climb) are slow climbers, so I'm trying to get away from climbing at all, I can get some work done from a bucket, still not the fastest but I can do 10x the work in a day easily


Chipping is kinda slow, looking at a 75ft drywall truck build with a mecanil saw and debris box, cut the tree and put it in the box, 75ft will be enough for most of my work (I'm getting away from bigger removal, hate em)


But, i could get a spider lift and then my only slowdown is handling brush and roping, still have to chip and still have to rope


Part of the slowdowns is tangled rope, usually only 1 guy in the ground so lowering and dragging brush is a full time job


I can build the drywall truck exactly how I want for ~$50-70k, spider lift will be $200k+ but can be financed, unlike the drywall truck unless I go through a dealer

Realistically I want to eliminate climbing, and then focus on handling materials, part of the slowdown is my chippers weak hydraulics, once those are fixed the chipping should be faster, still have to get stuff to the chipper, and get chips off the job, got me a bigger chip truck already, gotta build a box for it, probably 20yd so I can use chipdrop


Grapple saw on my mini ex will also make things more efficient, less tracking around and nobody cutting things on the ground







What are you guys running? Jobsite pics would be amazing, trying to find out the best placement of everything, different ways of rigging to get stuff closer to the debris cleanup vehicle/machine

Stick boom crane would be cool if I had a legit climber but I don't, so grapple saw would be the way I think

 

[lone wolf]

Sitting around wondering, how can we be the most efficient and get trees down and cleaned up as fast as possible

Right now, 2 guys, forestry bucket and 12" chipper, mini ex and 14ft dump trailer

Every part of the job is a hold up, 2 hour jobs take 8 to 10 hours sometimes

I know me and my dad (both climb) are slow climbers, so I'm trying to get away from climbing at all, I can get some work done from a bucket, still not the fastest but I can do 10x the work in a day easily


Chipping is kinda slow, looking at a 75ft drywall truck build with a mecanil saw and debris box, cut the tree and put it in the box, 75ft will be enough for most of my work (I'm getting away from bigger removal, hate em)


But, i could get a spider lift and then my only slowdown is handling brush and roping, still have to chip and still have to rope


Part of the slowdowns is tangled rope, usually only 1 guy in the ground so lowering and dragging brush is a full time job


I can build the drywall truck exactly how I want for ~$50-70k, spider lift will be $200k+ but can be financed, unlike the drywall truck unless I go through a dealer

Realistically I want to eliminate climbing, and then focus on handling materials, part of the slowdown is my chippers weak hydraulics, once those are fixed the chipping should be faster, still have to get stuff to the chipper, and get chips off the job, got me a bigger chip truck already, gotta build a box for it, probably 20yd so I can use chipdrop


Grapple saw on my mini ex will also make things more efficient, less tracking around and nobody cutting things on the ground







What are you guys running? Jobsite pics would be amazing, trying to find out the best placement of everything, different ways of rigging to get stuff closer to the debris cleanup vehicle/machine

Stick boom crane would be cool if I had a legit climber but I don't, so grapple saw would be the way I think

Get a bigger Chipper and put a grapple on that Skid steer. A fast operator on a skid with a Grapple is a hell of a time saver by hours.

 

[ZinTrees]

Get a bigger Chipper and put a grapple on that Skid steer. A fast operator on a skid with a Grapple is a hell of a time saver by hours.

I don't have a skidsteer, have a mini ex, plan is a sg160 mecanil grapple on it

I had a branch manager on a boxer 526 and it sucked, that same grapple on a giant 1200tele demo unit was friggen amazing tho, as is the mini ex with a grapple

Bigger chipper has been a thought all along, maybe like an 18xp, although I have to check weights, if I can keep it under 10,000 pounds then my chip truck stays under CDL, I have to pay $58 a ton to dispose of brush so chipping is sweet although time consuming and we can't chip vines, but I suppose a properly working chipper will have minimal troubles, shove a limb In and get the next one ready, mines hydraulics are tired and weak and it takes a lot of babysitting


The other thing, forestry truck is a slowdown, half the reach from the bucket, half the chip capacity and the chipper is the wrong way around, I have seriously considered taking the chip box off my truck and moving the boom to the rear, but I'd have to get it re-certified and it's got a lot wrong in both boom and truck, not really worth it, a k boom with a basket would be pretty slick when I don't need the grapple saw, no basket on the drywall boom unfortunately, and that truck would be well over CDL anyways



Pulling up to today's job right now, 9am start isn't helping us any, but this tree should take 20 minutes top, gonna try and gave it out in 15 from setup to leaving, it's 2 tiny maple leads over a house and power line, the entire rigging side broke off so it'll all be cut and toss bucket work, may need a tow out tho, not sure yet

 

[lone wolf]

I don't have a skidsteer, have a mini ex, plan is a sg160 mecanil grapple on it

I had a branch manager on a boxer 526 and it sucked, that same grapple on a giant 1200tele demo unit was friggen amazing tho, as is the mini ex with a grapple

Bigger chipper has been a thought all along, maybe like an 18xp, although I have to check weights, if I can keep it under 10,000 pounds then my chip truck stays under CDL, I have to pay $58 a ton to dispose of brush so chipping is sweet although time consuming and we can't chip vines, but I suppose a properly working chipper will have minimal troubles, shove a limb In and get the next one ready, mines hydraulics are tired and weak and it takes a lot of babysitting


The other thing, forestry truck is a slowdown, half the reach from the bucket, half the chip capacity and the chipper is the wrong way around, I have seriously considered taking the chip box off my truck and moving the boom to the rear, but I'd have to get it re-certified and it's got a lot wrong in both boom and truck, not really worth it, a k boom with a basket would be pretty slick when I don't need the grapple saw, no basket on the drywall boom unfortunately, and that truck would be well over CDL anyways



Pulling up to today's job right now, 9am start isn't helping us any, but this tree should take 20 minutes top, gonna try and gave it out in 15 from setup to leaving, it's 2 tiny maple leads over a house and power line, the entire rigging side broke off so it'll all be cut and toss bucket work, may need a tow out tho, not sure yet

Yeah, get the biggest Chipper just under 10K. That disposal fee will keep going up and is a drag! It's nice to chip whole Pine Tress or what ever. Chips can be given away if you look around.I have a Forestry truck and don't understand why it slows you down? It's impressive to have a lift and a dump truck all in one. I have a Spider lift and while it isn't nearly as fast to set up, and it is slower moving, it sure comes in handy it tight spots and backyards fitting through a 36 in gate. A grapple machine and big Chipper is what you need .

 

[ZinTrees]

Yeah, get the biggest Chipper just under 10K. That disposal fee will keep going up and is a drag! It's nice to chip whole Pine Tress or what ever. Chips can be given away if you look around.I have a Forestry truck and don't understand why it slows you down? It's impressive to have a lift and a dump truck all in one. I have a Spider lift and while it isn't nearly as fast to set up, and it is slower moving, it sure comes in handy it tight spots and backyards fitting through a 36 in gate. A grapple machine and big Chipper is what you need .

I give all my chips away, so yeah, chipping is a nice way to go, would like a bigger chipper for sure, right now the tired old 250 will have to do (man if only the 18XP's for sale would be affordable)


id say the forestry bucket slows us down a lot for 2 main reasons, 1: less reach, and 2: extra brush drag + chipper pointing the wrong way, dumping chips while the bucket is working hasn't been much issue, only times we need to dump more than once a day are crane days (usually, sometimes we are somehow super productive and fill 2 trucks by hand in 1 day)


just got done looking at K booms, looks like $90K will get around an 80 footer, and if you want more, about 100K per 10 feet of extra reach!


on a good note, most of my residential work can be accomplished with a 70-100ft boom, im working myself away from massive removals, not much money to be had in them at the rate im doing things, I make good money on little 2 and 3 hours jobs all day long (as long as I can sell them, whole other issue)



right now my process tends to be a climber and 1 groundie, or bucket operator and groundie, air guy puts tree on ground, ground guy unties rope if needed, and moves stuff with the mini ex or hand drag on smaller jobs, but either the groundie waits on the air guy, or vise versa, we are always waiting on something, always stupid little stuff too (filling up a saw, pulling climbers rope out of brush, etc)

plan is to get rid of climbing entirely, turn down all climbing jobs, if the treemek or bucket can't reach, then don't do it, I don't want to keep doing these giant ass trees day in and day out, too much headache and those bigger chains are annoying to sharpen





right now, with how business has been and the jobs I've been doing, my dream setup is my dump truck with a 20yd box, 18XP chipper, rear mount elevator bucket and/or a 70ish ft grapple saw, if I can get a basket on the grapple saw truck, then I don't need the bucket truck any more, it's not ideal or as fast to set up, won't get into the tight spots, but with so much reach I don't need to be as close (generally)

I'd like to go WAY bigger on the grapple saw, but driveways are expensive to fix, and I can't work 10 days a week to make the payments of a bigger truck

I can feed the chipper with the treemek, or tow the mini ex behind the bucket truck, although either of these options is well over CDL (no big deal, few grand and 3 weeks of my time I can go get my CDL next month if I had to)

 

[ZinTrees]

would like to note, with my current chipper (2002 250XP, 4BT cummins) I can fill my 14 yard chip box in about 15-20 minutes feeding it with the ex from a somewhat well stacked brush pile
only time I've ever realllllly wanted anything bigger is when im filling a trailer with 14-16" diameter logs, or ripping whole trees down the middle to fit them into the chipper, id say on average once a month it's an issue, but I certainly see the other benefit of a larger chipper having more feed and crush power, plus the larger opening will accept oddball shapes and larger branch unions, I spend a lot of time cutting stuff down at the unions to feed, when an 18" would just eat the entire piece with half or none of the saw work

grapple saw on the ex will help a ton too, save on the manual labor aspect of sawing stuff, and it can grab from any angle instead of how a bucket and thumb has to be perpendicular, and for stuff like bradford pears, just reach in and cut, spin around, re-grab and shove right into the chipper


maybe I should start doing video of my jobs, and re-watching it to replay the entire job, and see what could be done differently?

 

[lone wolf]

would like to note, with my current chipper (2002 250XP, 4BT cummins) I can fill my 14 yard chip box in about 15-20 minutes feeding it with the ex from a somewhat well stacked brush pile
only time I've ever realllllly wanted anything bigger is when im filling a trailer with 14-16" diameter logs, or ripping whole trees down the middle to fit them into the chipper, id say on average once a month it's an issue, but I certainly see the other benefit of a larger chipper having more feed and crush power, plus the larger opening will accept oddball shapes and larger branch unions, I spend a lot of time cutting stuff down at the unions to feed, when an 18" would just eat the entire piece with half or none of the saw work

grapple saw on the ex will help a ton too, save on the manual labor aspect of sawing stuff, and it can grab from any angle instead of how a bucket and thumb has to be perpendicular, and for stuff like bradford pears, just reach in and cut, spin around, re-grab and shove right into the chipper


maybe I should start doing video of my jobs, and re-watching it to replay the entire job, and see what could be done differently?

Get the Grapple first then.

 

[ZinTrees]

Get the Grapple first then.

heres basically the setup I'm going for, just on my KX040 instead of a U35

I really think this will be the ticket for handling stuff on the ground, like my branch manager but 100X better, gonna lose a bit of lift capacity but I'm not too concerned





EDIT: BTW, I think you're right about getting the grapple first, its the one thing that I tell myself every day "if only I had that grapple saw" (that and the treemek, but I can almost sorta afford a grapple saw, not so much a treemek, although once I get the truck, I can run the same saw on it too)

 

[fields_mj]

As far as not climbing goes, can you just price those jobs so high (and let your customers know it) that you'd be happy to do the work if you get the bid?

I think the video idea is a good one. The thing I would ask myself as I watched it is "how could I have planned/prepped better so that the job would go better?" In my experience in construction, machining, and manufacturing, people tend to cut corners at the end of the day because they just want the day to be over with, but if you spend an extra 15 to 30 min at the end of the day getting things ready for tomorrow (including putting everything away in the correct location where everyone can find it), the next day goes WAY better and more than makes up for the time. Running into little issues at the start of the day or start of a job seems to set the tone for the hole day. Where as if things start off going smoothly, they tend to continue going smoothly (most of the time).

 

[ZinTrees]

As far as not climbing goes, can you just price those jobs so high (and let your customers know it) that you'd be happy to do the work if you get the bid?

I think the video idea is a good one. The thing I would ask myself as I watched it is "how could I have planned/prepped better so that the job would go better?" In my experience in construction, machining, and manufacturing, people tend to cut corners at the end of the day because they just want the day to be over with, but if you spend an extra 15 to 30 min at the end of the day getting things ready for tomorrow (including putting everything away in the correct location where everyone can find it), the next day goes WAY better and more than makes up for the time. Running into little issues at the start of the day or start of a job seems to set the tone for the hole day. Where as if things start off going smoothly, they tend to continue going smoothly (most of the time).

I've been pricing high for climbing but I'm wanting to 100% get out of it entirely, never have another climber in a tree, if I can't do it with a lift or treemek I don't want it


We try and put everything away right, part of our morning slowdown is putting everything in the shop at night, I don't have locked parking so I never leave equipment out in trucks

 

[ZinTrees]

also I should mention, part of what im asking would be pointers on being efficient as in truck positioning, cutting, chipping techniques, etc, the meat n potatoes, I don't have 25 grand to go spend on a grapple saw or another truck right now (really, going to be 100K for the grapple saw truck, already figured that out, so itll be a little bit, rather not finance it if I can avoid it)

 

[ZinTrees]

I'm going to snag one of these bags next time im in Home depot, holds 3300 pounds, plan is for the bag to be near the tree, excavator can carry it to the dump trailer come cleanup time, instead of the current process of a Brute trashcan being carried by 1 or 2 guys to the truck, dumped, repeat 20-100 times for cleanup

 

[Haplo]

forestry truck is a slowdown, half the reach from the bucket, half the chip capacity and the chipper is the wrong way around

We always get the chipper pointed right when we can, with a pickup or the loader. Easy to feed right in.

But usually the ground man makes neat piles for the mini loader, loader feeds the piles right into the chipper. It's not slow. One ground guy but I come down to help chip

 

[Haplo]

 

[ZinTrees]

View attachment 1197338

Rarely an option for us as we normally only take one truck

Actually sold my bucket this week, building a proper chip truck as we speak, the 32 year old bucket was starting to make some engine noises that weren't normal and I didn't want any surprise repair bills

 

[Haplo]

Are you making multiple trips to get your equipment onsite? There's a huge efficiency drain right there

 

[ZinTrees]

Are you making multiple trips to get your equipment onsite? There's a huge efficiency drain right there

we have been, drive the pickup and drop off the trailer/excavator, drive home, get the bucket truck and chipper, drive to the job, work, go dump chips, drive home, come back to job and pick up the trailer, go dump logs, come back and get the excavator, then go home

im about to get my license, my new truck is under CDL, just spent a week shortening the bed, adding lights, trailer brakes, etc, I will be driving the chip truck while dad tows the excavator, since the new dump truck can haul the excavator on the back if I take the sides off (dump flatbed with stake sides) then I can tow the chipper and ex in one trip for the "chip into woods" jobs, all while still being under CDL

heres the new truck, still gotta do some work to it, but for right now itll get to a few jobs, then im going to build steel sides, already have a buyers 8x18 roller tarp coming in the mail next week so I can cover the load and be DOT compliant, but still have an open dump bed to put logs or brush in when we decide not to chip, and if I pull the sides off then the tarp won't be in the way of hauling the excavator on the bed


(the ratty sides came on it when I got the truck, I didn't build them lol)

 

[Haplo]

drive the pickup and drop off the trailer/excavator, drive home, get the bucket truck and chipper, drive to the job, work, go dump chips, drive home, come back to job and pick up the trailer, go dump logs, come back and get the excavator, then go home

Yeah when you get your license and cut back on all that bs you can 1.5x your revenue easy

 

[ZinTrees]

Yeah when you get your license and cut back on all that bs you can 1.5x your revenue easy

for sure

right now we are 100% under CDL which is super handy, although I will be getting my class A once the need arises, then I can tow my dump trailer with the dump truck and haul about 24K pounds worth of logs, or logs and a machine, or just have 2 machines for when we are land clearing

I think the next step for me is to get a cheap small boom truck, probably about a 15 ton with ~80ft of stick, this will increase production a lot, then I pay off the dump trailer and excavator, take that extra $2000 a month and put it towards a small treemek

 

[ZinTrees]

Chip truck is close to done, gotta do a little work still like getting doors built and probably a new hydraulic pump (vevor electric pump that it came with works but leaks and its only gravity down)




the crane company we usually use has 2 30 ton manitex's, a 30102wl (rear mount stand up, A frame outriggers, non factory winch with 3500# line pull) and a "new" 30112S, out and down outriggers so we can actually short rig, and the factory winch so line pull is fine, never have tried the new crane out, it showed up to the first job we needed it for and blew out the rotator fitting, had to send the 30102 out to finish the day

got to try out a new crane, LTM1060-3.1, took out a large oak that was so dead I could shake the whole tree, a large maple with zero equipment access and 2 storm damaged hickory (every tree was 80+ft tall and 24+ DBH) in about 8 hours, brush just got pushed into the woods, that job went super fast and smooth