Kickback

[Dan Forsh]

I recall a similar thread about grip does anyone else remember it, I think the thumb on top of the bar was referred to as a "Monkey grip"

 

[Bermie]

Yup...Left thumb around the top handle is standard operationg procedure, again with correct stance, if your thumb isn't wrapped around you won't pass the assessment! That's if you actually have operational thumbs!!!
Read on..
My hubby groundie has a problem, he broke his left thumb badly when boxing in school, it healed crooked so he can't wrap his thumb...I've watched him closely and he's always got the saw under control, never actually seen him get kickback...
Then there was the candidate who turned up for assessment in the UK minus a left thumb completely! As all these things are politically correct and equal access is important he was made to demonstrate his control, adjuged competent and no problem. He'd been cutting for years like this so learned how to compensate.

Cool huh

 

[Oregon Engineer]

Who Got Chaps and Kevlar Gloves For Christmas???

Got a buddy? Buy him chaps for Christmas (many guys don't have them) and Kevlar Gloves for his birthday. He's more likely to stay in one piece.

Here's why. ---------

The two most common places for injuries are the front left thigh and the back of the left hand. One in 5 chain saw injuries are from kickback

There were over 28,500* chain saw injuries in 1999 according to the U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commission.

The average injury required 110 stitches.
36% of injuries were to the legs and knees.
The estimated cost per injury in 2000 was over $12,000.

 

[Canyon Angler]

I use one of those plastic tip guards you find on saws at Home Depot. :monkey:

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: I want one of them! :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[blis]

Got a buddy? Buy him chaps for Christmas (many guys don't have them) and Kevlar Gloves for his birthday. He's more likely to stay in one piece.

Here's why. ---------

The two most common places for injuries are the front left thigh and the back of the left hand. One in 5 chain saw injuries are from kickback

There were over 28,500* chain saw injuries in 1999 according to the U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commission.

The average injury required 110 stitches.
36% of injuries were to the legs and knees.
The estimated cost per injury in 2000 was over $12,000.

Thats true, but thats also why LEFT hand glove has same kind of protective fiber as chaps/other ppe have...


btw, anyone ever saw a guy using the throttle with LEFT hand, as in saw is on left side of body, now that looks scary...

 

[Canyon Angler]

Wrap your thumb, don't let it ride on the top handle, wrap it like like you are making a fist.

Yeah, but what if you're like me and you don't have opposable thumbs? :monkey:

 

[Tree Sling'r]

Yeah, but what if you're like me and you don't have opposable thumbs? :monkey:

You got me there.

 

[smokechase II]

thumbs r us

Normally I cannot spout a lot of positives like this one.

The FS in my geographic area is very good about the thumb placement or you're going to loose certification.

The reason I mention this is that looking over the 1994 Chain Saw Injuries anatomy drawing and the nearly 18,000 injuries to the left hand and arm area.
I can't recall a single one of these with anyone that I've worked with or near.
Overall in the FS these numbers must be very low. I think left hand and left arm injuries must be almost totally preventable by proper grip.

Now, back to my normal self.
However, the amount of times we cut our chaps is astounding. It is as if we have no love for Kevlar. (I know of one instance where chaps failed due to being on loose and miss-repaired. Also, two instances where the rear of the calf was cut partly because the chaps are not complete coverage. So for the most part the chaps are doing their job)
I do a lot of sorting chaps that can be repaired and throwing away chaps that can't. Generally we toss anything where more than 2 strands of the Kevlar innards are cut.
(Many of these come from a State DOC Inmate work program where those guys are learning. Two years ago I recorded one chaps cut per 45+ days of Inmate saw time. I actually thought the Inmates were doing pretty well with all the production pressure they are under.)
I've counted a few times on the location of chaps cuts and the left leg takes more than the right at almost a 90/10 ratio. Most of our chaps repair is related to incorrectly tuned saws and arm fatigue. Pretty minor damage to just the outer cordura.
With regard to kick-back, I don't think thumb placement can have nearly has much to do with preventing lower body cut injuries as it does for upper body ones. Generally shorter distance to body contact and that is harder to restrict.

Is that out to lunch?

 

[5555555]

Smoke,

How does incorrectly tuned saw contribute to cut chaps?

Thanks,

Jim

 

[Diesel JD]

A poorly running saw will take your concentration away from what it should be on(keeping yourself away from the saw's teeth) and onto how bad the saw sucks...many people will compensate by trying to force the poor running saw to cut and forget themselves as regards proper stance obstructions etc. Personally, I see saw safety summarized as keeping your mind on the task at hand, not allowing the bar tip to contact anything other than the log being cut, keeping your body completely away from the chain and the saw's kickback path. That injury chart is interesting, anybody understand why it is the left leg that receives most cuts? It seems it would be the right leg and foot if one follows conventional wisdom and stands left of the saw's path, or the head and torso in violent kickback events. As for the grip, I'm curious as to if that's the way I hold a saw, its automatic at this point, but if its not then that's the way I'm going to make myself cut from now on.
J.D.

 

[smokechase II]

chaps and yuning

5555555:

If the saw chain keeps turning because the idle / low jet combination is too high. A tired sawyer who doesn't fix this and lets the saw get too close to him/her risks chaps damage. While damage is minor this actually happens fairly often. Yes it is a problem as holes in the outer fabric allow oil/grease/dirt in and that can cause the protective fabric to be bound together and not function as well in gumming up the sprocket.
With the Inmate program I mentioned they are not allowed to tune their saws.

Bingo.

There is at least one other way where a poorly tuned saw could contribute to chaps being cut seriously.

Bonus points anyone?

__________________________

 

[tek9tim]

Idle too low, and walking around feathering the trigger?

 

[smokechase II]

high end

Tek9Tim:

We don't think this way, but to a lot of folks view a highly tuned perhaps overpowered saw that is sharp to very sharp as non-kickback because it will simply power and efficiently cut through the wood.

This is for softer woods.

Take that same sharp/tuned saw and put on a dull chain. You may not be able to cut the same way.

This seems to be a more common thought with shorter bars/bigger saws.

Caveat; One could get nailed with trying to take on too much or overconfidence in my abilities or equipment set up.

I never thought this way about kickback, and don't remember being taught this, prior to reading it here on arboristsite. Sorry that I have to admit that. Guess my teachers have erred on the side of caution.

Part of this is that I think of an oversharp saw as one with low rakers. That is not the way they are setting their chains up.

I'm not going to give up my 32" bars.
With all the times we cut dirt on the fireline I'm going to stay focused on tip use, grip etc. I do understand how a Scandinavian cutting in spruce/or other softwoods with a short bar can do things that I can't in dead wood on a fireline.

For me this site has really been good.

 

[smokechase II]

you're right too

Yes the saw that is miss tuned and will not stay running is also something that would damage chaps or worse.

So there are at least three ways that a miss tuned saw could be part of the problem.

 

[blis]

.............. I do understand how a Scandinavian cutting in spruce/or other softwoods with a short bar can do things that I can't in dead wood on a fireline.

For me this site has really been good.

Ok, i didnt get that scandinavian part, care to explain what you mean??

 

[ASEMASTER]

sharp

you'll get cut less with a sharp knife than a dull one this also applies to the chain saw.

 

[Oregon Engineer]

.... That injury chart is interesting, anybody understand why it is the left leg that receives most cuts? It seems it would be the right leg and foot if one follows conventional wisdom and stands left of the saw's path, or the head and torso in violent kickback events. As for the grip, I'm curious as to if that's the way I hold a saw, its automatic at this point, but if its not then that's the way I'm going to make myself cut from now on.
J.D.

The natural tendency is not to cut with the saw to your right. It takes extra effort to cut with the saw on your right. The easiest way to carry a saw is with the bar pointing to your left. Trip on a branch and the first thing it will contact is the left leg.

Watch other cutters closely while they cut and while they position themselves for the their next cut (watch yourself too). I find I carry the saw with the bar to my left, not a problem if the saw has a brake and it is activated. But then a lot of Big Box saws do not have brakes.

 

[SawTroll]

Ok, i didnt get that scandinavian part, care to explain what you mean??

Bore-cutting trough the middle of the notch to make a "fan" in the middle of the tree, and then cutting from both sides, when the tree is more than 2x effective bar lenght - I believe.........

I wouldn't do that on a dead or partly rotted tree. :jawdrop: :jawdrop:

...but on a fresh and reasonably balanced tree I think it OK, but I avoid it anyway.
I prefer the bar to reach at least 2/3 trough the tree, for felling.

 

[sawforfun]

Hi all. PPE sounds like step one in the whole deal. But tell me does anyone make a left-handed saw? I'm myself a "port sider" but was tought to not cut across my body, so I cut right sided. I know this sounds like a crazy question but was just waundering. Dean'o

 

[Stihl 041S]

southpaw saw

I am going to redo an old Oergon for my brother, chain on left side.


I'll check the name, its a small saw but he does't use one much, and I'm thinking its from the 60's.