Law Enforcement

[chicken89]

Hey guys, its been a couple years since I have been on here- left tree care to become member of Indiana State Police.
On one of the law enforcement forums, a member asked about tactical repelling and needing equipment and training. I replied with my experience and how I thought that some tree care equipment might work for repelling. I thought I would come on here and ask for help, seeing as though you make your livelihood from climbing.
Here is the link to the thread... http://policelink.monster.com/topics/69614-tactical-rappelling/posts . The question is new, so at this time, there are no replies. Seems as though it would be a start up program needing all equipment, also some training (possibly aerial rescue training maybe?).
I am sending him a link to this thread so he can monitor it, hopefully it will do some good and he can pass it up the chain of command. I am also looking for people in his area that maybe he can stop in on a job and see the equipment in action and maybe on free time try it for first hand experience. His profile states he is in "Allendale, MI". I have no clue where that is, maybe someone here can help. Hopefully someone lives there or near there that they can meet!?
If anyone can help, you can reply here or PM me, or email me at "[email protected]"

 

[Tree Pig]

Repelling and SWAT is a dead or dying tactic. The business is going more towards vehicles and devices that utilize ramps to gain access on foot. Speed and surprise are a SWAT operators biggest tool and repelling isnt the best tool for this. Tell your buddies to stop watching too much TV.

 

[tree MDS]

I hear home depot sells some good strong ropes.

 

[Tree Pig]

you may find what you need here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Iwp1d7eKbA

 

[tree MDS]

you may find what you need here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Iwp1d7eKbA

 

[Hddnis]

While I do think a SWAT team should have basic rope training and equipment I don't think it is needed as much as it is used on TV.

The guys swinging from ropes through glass windows are stuntmen, not cops.

A good police supply company will have all the tactical rope gear needed. Some of the items are also sold to fire department rescue teams.

The difference between tree work and tactical work is that a tree guy hangs there and works for hours on end. In a tactical situation you want to be down off that rope as fast as possible. While on the rope you are basically a swinging target.



Mr. HE

 

[Tree Pig]

I am sure there is a chance of it having its use, I would say best chance would be more in a rescue situation then tactical entry.

 

[oscar4883]

Not sure how to provide a link but google Hart Urban Rescue. Urbanhart.com I believe is the site. Ask for John. He is a great guy and may be able to answer some of your questions. Hope this helps.

 

[pdqdl]

I think it is a mistake to suggest what type of tactical training might be needed by a SWAT team member. That would probably be just as unwise as one of them telling an arborist how to do a tree removal, based on their training.

I can think of lots of reasons and situations where having training in aerial maneuvers would be real handy. Rooftop access, safety belays, perhaps even tactical or rescue operations where being on the end of a rope would be required.

I am sure that not every swat maneuver involves busting down some door/window/barricade to get to the bad guys, as displayed on TV.

 

[Tree Pig]

I think it is a mistake to suggest what type of tactical training might be needed by a SWAT team member. That would probably be just as unwise as one of them telling an arborist how to do a tree removal, based on their training.

I can think of lots of reasons and situations where having training in aerial maneuvers would be real handy. Rooftop access, safety belays, perhaps even tactical or rescue operations where being on the end of a rope would be required.

I am sure that not every swat maneuver involves busting down some door/window/barricade to get to the bad guys, as displayed on TV.

I only chimed in because I think I am qualified to give my opinion. Though I do as much tree work as I can (almost full time as second job) I come from a 6 year Military Special Forces background 16 years as a cop in the ghetto, 6 years as a SWAT team member Entry Team and Sniper until I got promoted and recently returned to the Team as a Supervisor. My Team has done 128 operations in the last year so I would say we are pretty busy. We trained on rappelling 10 years ago with experts from Special Ops. The team spent thousands of dollars on equipment(harnesses ascenders,descenders,biners ropes, bags). All the gear is sitting in our cage in buckets and never gets used. being in and around an active SWAT team for 16 years I can not think of an instance were it was needed. We do now have a Bearcat with the ramp for upper floor entries (similar to the picture below).

 

[jomoco]

What would probably be very handy dandy for a swat team is an electric battery powered wraptor to go up the sides of bldgs with!

Cuz it would be verwee verwee quiet, and extweemwy sneaky...huh..uh..uh..uh!


jomoco

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I am sure there is a chance of it having its use, I would say best chance would be more in a rescue situation then tactical entry.

I was thinking the same thing, though it is a good team exercise. And it is good to have it if you do need it. My experiance is nine years USMC.

Not only are those guys in the movies trained stunt professionals, but the glass is made of sugar, not the break-into-jagged-little-pieces kind of stuff.

I would go low and slow, liaise with the local Reserve/Guard unit that has a rap'ing tower so you can go with the basic stuff. No sense stockpiling the gear until the team is up to speed.

ou may find what you need here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Iwp1d7eKbA

I liked that rolling leap through the window Perry did. In real life he would have landed on some garden tools, or something else sharp.

 

[jefflovstrom]

This is just Dumb!
Jeff

 

[ForTheArborist]

I'm sure some of the warehouses around where their having "boss meetings" underneath the natural ceiling light is the kind of place for getting ramped up in your rappel gear. Just jump through the panes boots first, rapin' down with one hand, and immobilizing with another.

I watched Fox for a few years there, so I'm highly qualified to lay down the laws for the "how-to" to you. opcorn:

Actually I could imagine scenarios that are real such as trying to get from one building or structure to another on speedlines. If you have a port where you live, there may be a situation where fellas need to sneak from one cargo ship or something to another on speed lines.

I think it would be stupid not to have a set of some kind of thin strap harness with out all of the buxom cusions on them. Just enough to hold a guy in and clipped to a figure of 8. Tying from the top of a building or something and rappn' down is one thing, but shooting a rope up to climb up it is another thing. I assume a grappling hook could work in some cases if mandate says they aren't too risky on the guys.

A flat black big shot could be useful if time permits. I'm sure you are familiar with the big shot.

I kind of believe ol' stillolmanic from CT up there. There probably is so much tech now that ropin' in on someone is unlikely, but that is really no excuse not to take the guys through the basic concepts of climbing techniques, rope types, ascending and descending gear not only for personel but gear transfers too. Then there is rope placement and teaching some basic knots w/ a step by step diagram to keep with the gear for future training/practice.

If things are so slow that they want to train for the unlikely event of roping an operation, good. The idea is to be as ready and stocked up as possible for every possible situation even the unlikely ones.

Thanks for keeping the scum mowed, Chicken. :yourock:

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

This is just Dumb!
Jeff

What is, that this is in the CTCC forum

 

[pdqdl]

I only chimed in because I think I am qualified to give my opinion...

Ok. That sounds like y're qualified. Just makin' sure.

 

[tree MDS]

Ok. That sounds like y're qualified. Just makin' sure.

I can smell the bacon from here.

Just kidding SOM.

 

[Tree Pig]

I can smell the bacon from here.

Just kidding SOM.

none taken MDS plus who knows you may drive through Hartford one day

My Team has done 128 operations in the last year

129 Operation

 

[pdqdl]

... We do now have a Bearcat with the ramp for upper floor entries (similar to the picture below).

Huh?! How would that work?

 

[Tree Pig]

Huh?! How would that work?

The pic is small but the ramp on top extends and raises. Can extend as high as some 3 story buildings. Just raise it up even with the bottom of a window smash the window toss in a flash-bang and send the troops on in.

Just another tool in the arsenal, like many it has its limitations but it works well.