Mike Ray
ArboristSite Operative
first look to see if it has a metal handle
List of Pro Saw Models - References
- Thread starter Farmer_Nate
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
Because that matters for the last 10 years or so..
OK, but does Echo actually say in their advertising lit that those saws are 'pro saws', or are they just using verbiage that would hint the saws are 'pro saws'?
Echo touts the 7310 a their 'first professional saw'. I'm not an Echo guy, but until COVID drove the price of everything up, I was planning to buy a 7310. Now hovering around $1,000, no thank you....not for an Echo of any description.
Kevin
Sierra_rider
Piss revver
I dunno, it's mostly an argument in semantics, but they have some verbiage to the effect of them being a good choice for pros.
I don't really care too much about what the manufacturers say in regards to pro use...I mostly look at the construction, weight, and performance. I think Stihl says that the 194t is for professional arborist use, but nothing about that saw is what I'd call professional features. Most of the saws in Echo's X-series are mag-cased saws, which is very much a pro-feature.
I'm not an Echo fanboy...I only own 2 of them, and that's because 1 was free. The one I did buy was the 2511t...I wanted a small trim saw to compliment my Stihl 201tcm and I felt the 2511t outclassed the 151t in every measurable way. Instead of merely complimenting the 201, it actually eclipsed it as my go-to climbing saw...especially after I did some "work" to it and unlocked even more power.
I honestly find the rest of Echo's line-up to be a step behind most of the Stihl and Husky line up. There's nothing wrong with that as long as they maintain affordable pricing...but the pricing of the 7310 seems a bit silly. At that price, you're almost into a 572xp.
Exactly....up around $1,000+ the Echo 7310 isn't so attractive anymore. But it's more old school than new wave;split mag cases, conventional carb and a mag recoil assembly. I'd deal with an extra lb or so to get a stouter commercial saw.
Never had an Echo.....read owner reviews on the 7310. Only real negative was the downsized tensioner screw for the bar. Some owners think it's puny and commercial guys that have help using them were seeing failure. But reading about the failures, one could see it was a user issue more than a model defect. Still, the tensioner screws are kinda small for a 70cc saw that could sport a 32" bar.
Kevin
This is going to get interesting when you get to Poulan, McCulloch, and Homelite saws. Will a Poulan 3800 be considered pro? Mac 10-10? Homelite 360? In my opinion I would say yes. But in todays market they would probably be in the farm/ranch lineup.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2019
- Messages
- 4,558
- Reaction score
- 9,230
No, the MS180 is not a pro saw, but like 192,194 and the likes- 100's of them are used by professional users- landscapers, arborists, maybe even professional chainsaw carvers.
Top handle saws- used properly in an arborist type roll, are fired up- make one or two fairly easy cuts and are shut down again until the next position is reached- certainly not the same demands as someone contract felling big old trees, or even a skid site (landing for you guys?) saw.
Because its a clamshell it should not be on any pro list? Maybe- I mean who actually loves a clamshell saw?
Not saying anyone is wrong- we all have opinions of what should be on or off any such list and odds are we would never agree fully with any one list- but there are plenty of consumer grade saws that either have been or are in use daily as professional equipment.
Husky Dude
ArboristSite Lurker
Interesting thread. I’m a newbie here, but I’ve been working in the woods since I was 15, when I started cutting the family’s firewood. My cousin was a pro logger. This was in 1973. We bought a Homelite saw with a 24” bar based upon my cousin’s recommendations. I assume this late in life it was a “home user” model. HOMElite, get it? 
I started working professionally in the Sierra at 18, and have been in and out of it over the years, doing everything from cutting large black oaks and large Douglass fir trees killed by beetles for firewood. This is where I learned to fall large diameter trees that can easily kill you. I bought a Husqvarna 2100 and later a 181, and currently have that 181 and 2 288s, along with smaller brushing and thinning versions over the years. I’ve been a pro faller, landing man and thinner and slasher. I fell in love with huskies tho used Stihls also, but here, you are either a Stihl or Husky man, nothing else. Garden maintenance guys use Echo and others tgat are cheap, but pro loggers never consider anything but Husqvarna or Stihl as a pro logging saw. Being a Husky man, I can tell you that our pro saw shops tgat we all had intimate relationships with will tell you a 3 digit model is a pro saw designed to work every day for 10 years. That a 2 digit model is a home user saw designed to work 10 SEASONS. I can NOT tell you anything about Stihls except this: I was all but forced to buy a $700 026 thinning saw because the whole crew had them. Small light power head with a 24” bar and extremely high chain speed. Designed for cutting 12 year old pine and fir trees that are no more than 8” in diameter at the base. FAST. I was reluctant, so I brought out my Husky 46 or whatever it was and observed the differences. I watched my cohorts blow up saws from an inconsistent mixture due to the following: the Husky design has the carb mounted directly on the cylinder. Seems appropriate? The Stihl on the other hand had the carb mounted on the TANK/handle. This to alleviate the intense vibration of being mounted on the cylinder. This causes the throttle plate shaft to wear out the bore of the carb which will cause the saw to lean out over time and need to be replaced as air leaks around the main throat through the throttle shaft bore. It is easily adjusted out with the air screws but eventually becomes less adjustable. The cost to replace was $35. 5 screws. The Stihl on the other hand did not have this issue, though minor, HOWEVER:
The 026 carb had to have an impulse line in the form of a flexible hose go from the cylinder impulse port to an impulse port on the carb. This line induces pressure and vacuum created in the operation of the crank case where the piston pressurizes the crank case during downward travel and then once the piston passes the transfer ports, and tge fuel air mixture escapes into the compression chamber, as the piston travels up, it creates vacuum. As you all know, thus impulse port on all 2 stroke carbs cycles the fuel pump diaphragm in the carb and pumps fuel into the chamber on the other side that fills against a spring loaded diaphragm that then feeds the mixture ports and Venturi. So the problem is the line gets harder with heat cycles and fuel related chemical reaction and eventually cracks from actually movement between the tank and engine crankcase because the tank is rubber mounted for shock and vibration dampening. The crack then makes impulse inconsistent depending on the relation in tank to cylinder position. The crack opens, less impulse, less fuel is pumped. The crack closes, more fuel. As the saw will run typically leaner, the operator adjusts while at rest at idle, impulse line crack closed. Then he buried the saw into a tree and pulls the trigger wide open and bears down in the dogs it handle and opens the crack, the saw accelerates to a high speed but is running lean and tgat means hitter and less lubrication and eventually it seizes. That line costs $10 but requires an almost complete tear down. This translates to that saw going to the shop indefinitely and is out of service. If the Sawyer has no backup saw, he is not working. So they don’t take them in cuz they be broke. Hense, due to a $10 impulse line failing under normal operating circumstances, a $700 saw is reduced to a pile of junk. I call that a poor design and I never looked at another Stihl again. Consequently, I can’t tell you anything except in this discussion, an 026 was their pro thinking saw and their 056 was one of their larger pro falling saws. That’s all I got.
I started working professionally in the Sierra at 18, and have been in and out of it over the years, doing everything from cutting large black oaks and large Douglass fir trees killed by beetles for firewood. This is where I learned to fall large diameter trees that can easily kill you. I bought a Husqvarna 2100 and later a 181, and currently have that 181 and 2 288s, along with smaller brushing and thinning versions over the years. I’ve been a pro faller, landing man and thinner and slasher. I fell in love with huskies tho used Stihls also, but here, you are either a Stihl or Husky man, nothing else. Garden maintenance guys use Echo and others tgat are cheap, but pro loggers never consider anything but Husqvarna or Stihl as a pro logging saw. Being a Husky man, I can tell you that our pro saw shops tgat we all had intimate relationships with will tell you a 3 digit model is a pro saw designed to work every day for 10 years. That a 2 digit model is a home user saw designed to work 10 SEASONS. I can NOT tell you anything about Stihls except this: I was all but forced to buy a $700 026 thinning saw because the whole crew had them. Small light power head with a 24” bar and extremely high chain speed. Designed for cutting 12 year old pine and fir trees that are no more than 8” in diameter at the base. FAST. I was reluctant, so I brought out my Husky 46 or whatever it was and observed the differences. I watched my cohorts blow up saws from an inconsistent mixture due to the following: the Husky design has the carb mounted directly on the cylinder. Seems appropriate? The Stihl on the other hand had the carb mounted on the TANK/handle. This to alleviate the intense vibration of being mounted on the cylinder. This causes the throttle plate shaft to wear out the bore of the carb which will cause the saw to lean out over time and need to be replaced as air leaks around the main throat through the throttle shaft bore. It is easily adjusted out with the air screws but eventually becomes less adjustable. The cost to replace was $35. 5 screws. The Stihl on the other hand did not have this issue, though minor, HOWEVER:The 026 carb had to have an impulse line in the form of a flexible hose go from the cylinder impulse port to an impulse port on the carb. This line induces pressure and vacuum created in the operation of the crank case where the piston pressurizes the crank case during downward travel and then once the piston passes the transfer ports, and tge fuel air mixture escapes into the compression chamber, as the piston travels up, it creates vacuum. As you all know, thus impulse port on all 2 stroke carbs cycles the fuel pump diaphragm in the carb and pumps fuel into the chamber on the other side that fills against a spring loaded diaphragm that then feeds the mixture ports and Venturi. So the problem is the line gets harder with heat cycles and fuel related chemical reaction and eventually cracks from actually movement between the tank and engine crankcase because the tank is rubber mounted for shock and vibration dampening. The crack then makes impulse inconsistent depending on the relation in tank to cylinder position. The crack opens, less impulse, less fuel is pumped. The crack closes, more fuel. As the saw will run typically leaner, the operator adjusts while at rest at idle, impulse line crack closed. Then he buried the saw into a tree and pulls the trigger wide open and bears down in the dogs it handle and opens the crack, the saw accelerates to a high speed but is running lean and tgat means hitter and less lubrication and eventually it seizes. That line costs $10 but requires an almost complete tear down. This translates to that saw going to the shop indefinitely and is out of service. If the Sawyer has no backup saw, he is not working. So they don’t take them in cuz they be broke. Hense, due to a $10 impulse line failing under normal operating circumstances, a $700 saw is reduced to a pile of junk. I call that a poor design and I never looked at another Stihl again. Consequently, I can’t tell you anything except in this discussion, an 026 was their pro thinking saw and their 056 was one of their larger pro falling saws. That’s all I got.
Husky Dude
ArboristSite Lurker
Addendum: this last post by Bob Hedgecutter is correct in that there are plenty of home use saws in the pro world, but as a pro logger, I would say not in large timber harvesting operations. Here in the northern sierras where we harvest large trees, it’s Stihl and Husky pro saws, and a truck bed rack full of them. These guys have a short season to put a large volume of wood on the ground and need reliability and a quiver of falling and bucking saws. They need to be able to cut all day, every day. I know this is an arborist site and tge rules are different, I can only post about what I know. And as for the clamshell design? Not sure I understand that? My pro saws are all a split crank case made of magnesium and a gasket between, with a flat surface to bolt on the cylinder. The tanks are either also aluminum or magnesium in the earlier days (2100), or plastic as early as 1982. Trying to find one now! So I’m not sure if I have my definitions right, but my pro saws are split cases. Is that “clamshell”
Sierra_rider
Piss revver
On the climbing saws, it really depends on what you're cutting. On broad trees, I agree most of the time is spent rigging and with position changes. Get on a large conifer like some of our pines, firs, redwoods, etc and the saw might not shut off until you take the top out of it...you can make hundreds of cuts on a large tree.No, the MS180 is not a pro saw, but like 192,194 and the likes- 100's of them are used by professional users- landscapers, arborists, maybe even professional chainsaw carvers.
Top handle saws- used properly in an arborist type roll, are fired up- make one or two fairly easy cuts and are shut down again until the next position is reached- certainly not the same demands as someone contract felling big old trees, or even a skid site (landing for you guys?) saw.
Because its a clamshell it should not be on any pro list? Maybe- I mean who actually loves a clamshell saw?
Not saying anyone is wrong- we all have opinions of what should be on or off any such list and odds are we would never agree fully with any one list- but there are plenty of consumer grade saws that either have been or are in use daily as professional equipment.
Sierra_rider
Piss revver
Clamshell would be the non-mag case saws...e.g. plastic homeowner saws. The ones that have a "pan" for the crankcase rather than 2 case halves.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2019
- Messages
- 4,558
- Reaction score
- 9,230
Yeah, you can- but in my own experience- you shut the saw off to advance your position vertically. You don't make hundreds of cuts from the one position.
Sierra_rider
Piss revver
If I'm going to be cutting again in several seconds, I'll leave it running. I'll get a high tie-in point early, so once I do start cutting, it goes really quickly.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2019
- Messages
- 4,558
- Reaction score
- 9,230
Yeah, na- I never claimed tree fallers were using clamy saw to cut down big old live trees- no room for plastic saws in that arena.
Having said that, I did a long time ago buy a horrid little Partner designed saw in the form of a Jonsered 2045, which is a clamshell saw and used it professionally daily for around 18 months to thin 10 year old Pine plantations, limb the thinnings and cut them into post lengths to be sleded out and peeled before being pressure treated. The saw near fell apart in the end- but it made me a LOT of money before it died, never missed a beat and performed admirably. Not a pro saw- but used in a pro environment.
Husky Dude
ArboristSite Lurker
Amen, Bob. I did basically the same thing with my little home user Husky thinning. It didn’t die though. I left it for my Ex wife when we separated, cuz she could handle it. I pulled the 24” bar and put back the 18” tho. Because of my big tree experience and saws, I got moved to slashing log jobs on that reforestation crew. Loggers fall and haul, and leave what looks like 1000 lb bombs demolished the units. We had to drop everything after they crash timber through the oaks and madrone to soften the landing. So lots of death defying large splintered up hazard trees. So my little saw “retired” from pro work before I wore it out.
I’m am learning a lot here from you all. I do NOT climb. I have friends that do. I have a huge respect for anybody who can climb up and tie into a tree at terminal height with a chainsaw and then cut chunks of wood out that can kill you or who is beneath you or destroy houses and decks and cars and…. Watching you guys work amazes me. One associate calls out how many flips a round will make on its way to the ground and nails it 90% of the time! Sometimes standing them on end! Pretty cool. Then there’s the stamina. Climbing is HARD EXCRUCIATING work! All my buds who pick cones are totally buffed! No fat on them anywhere! Frigging super human strength in their forearms. I don’t arm wrestle them for money…. Anyway, yeah, saws to fit the job, right? Thanks for the clamshell definition.
I’m am learning a lot here from you all. I do NOT climb. I have friends that do. I have a huge respect for anybody who can climb up and tie into a tree at terminal height with a chainsaw and then cut chunks of wood out that can kill you or who is beneath you or destroy houses and decks and cars and…. Watching you guys work amazes me. One associate calls out how many flips a round will make on its way to the ground and nails it 90% of the time! Sometimes standing them on end! Pretty cool. Then there’s the stamina. Climbing is HARD EXCRUCIATING work! All my buds who pick cones are totally buffed! No fat on them anywhere! Frigging super human strength in their forearms. I don’t arm wrestle them for money….
Anyway, yeah, saws to fit the job, right? Thanks for the clamshell definition.
Saw list is updated on my site.
288xp = Pro Saw
465 Rancher II = Not a Pro Saw?
288xp has crankcase which separates into two halves with a flat-bottomed cylinder head which bolts to a flat spot on the crankcase.
288:
465 has rounded lower half-circle on the cylinder head which mates to a rounded half-circle feature on the crankcase. Is this the "clamshell" people refer to?
465 Rancher:
Lower cylinder head rounded feature on 465:
Flat mating surface = good?
Curved mating surface= bad?
Does this have to do with modification for more power? More "squish"?
465 Rancher II = Not a Pro Saw?
288xp has crankcase which separates into two halves with a flat-bottomed cylinder head which bolts to a flat spot on the crankcase.
288:
465 has rounded lower half-circle on the cylinder head which mates to a rounded half-circle feature on the crankcase. Is this the "clamshell" people refer to?
465 Rancher:
Lower cylinder head rounded feature on 465:
Flat mating surface = good?
Curved mating surface= bad?
Does this have to do with modification for more power? More "squish"?
For a visual ID Don't know about pre 80s or saws from the last ten or so years, but Stihls that have a black over white rear handle are pro saws. Might be exceptions.
Sierra_rider
Piss revver
The being able to able to easily deck the squish band and cut squish, is a factor. You actually mill the squish band to flatten out the combustion chamber and then deck the base to both decrease the distance between the squish band/piston and to increase it's width across the bore.
As far as why pro saws are generally vertically split mag cases, that design is more rigid/offers better support for the crank.
Close, but the 045, 051, and 075 fall outside that mark. @Farmer_Nate the 465 is not a pro saw. Outside of the old 480 I would not say any 4-series Huskies are pro saws.
