Log skidding winch DIY

[kevin j]

I should clarify my late night post above.
-I am not at all saying it won't work. Farmi and Wallenstein and others are cadillac machines with thousands of units and years of service.

-I realize clutches are much more torque capacity than the pure torque of the sammy engine. Thermal issues usually are the limiting factor, so a given clutch will be capable or much more actual slip torque than what I said above. It was just illustrating order of magnitude, that there needs to be a very significant clamping force from the ramps/cams that engage it. Also, the torque capacity increases directly with the increasing diameter, so I would go with the largest possible disc that would fit your drum flanges. Area of contact is not so important, not much increase in torque capacity but does increase the life because there is more friction material to wear.

-I'd go with a couple hundred dollar hydraulic motor mainly because I don't have lathe capability for the shaft and center parts, but could do all the other fabrication.
One I built many years with hydr motor ago worked well but only got used a few times over several years just because the need was not there.

-The farmi clutch design has a huge advantage of being able to operate it from the ground, not from tractor seat. For logging, that would be almost essential for one person using it many times a day.

-So, go for it. Use the largest possible clutch disc, or rivet the material directly to the drum like farmi does. There are not many clutch/brake shops around any more that have the bulk material.

And, pics with progress of course.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Some very good suggestions and engineering has come forward. However for most part already been there done that. To start with your structure is not going to cut it. Not even close unless you are going to be moving logs under a foot. The first thing is you need a A frame mounting to the back of the tractor. Heavy gauge 2 X 2 square tubing maybe. Very easy to fabricate. They are often mounted to the rear axles with some U bolts. If you can not find them make them at least two per side start with 1/2 '' or 3/4'' better. A high quality snatch block needs to be mounted at the top with at least 20,000 lbs capacity with no scrimping here. They can be fabricated in house with misc. junk yard stuff. It needs to have a shield around most of it so that the cable can not come off no matter what. Then the A frame needs to be braced which can be a pain because it could interfere with getting on and off the tractor so massive gussets might be a solution. BTW hydro units are easy to come up with both new and used. The clutch idea will not cut it either. Your set up will experience 10,000 lbs likely every time you get on your ride. A disk brake off of a motorcycle or car will be all you need for braking. To engage a belt or two will be the easiest to set up. Just a variable idle pulley will engage your power source. A electric air conditioner clutch times two would meet the torque requirements at the power source not the final drive. If you want to build your own winch which is not too tough but will have some fringe benefits in that you might want 200 feet of cable. Get some heavy wall tubing about 6'' diam. cut two end plates with 1 1/2'' holes stick your 1 1/2'' rod through those and weld it up for your drum. It does not have to be perfect because it will turn a hand full of RPMs. If you want to use sprockets that will work with some fabrication. Most skid steer tractors at least the order ones have sprockets that would meet your needs or use a 3/4t or larger rear end will work. I have seen the haft shafts used as a base for the spool. Remember these things turn slow so perfect precision is not needed. About 100 to 200 to one ratio will be in order depending on your power source not knowing any thing about your PTO capacity. When I use a skid steer tractor with a completely independent winch. I winch up to a landing then move the logs around with my Bobcat.

 

[dave_dj1]

Some very good suggestions and engineering has come forward. However for most part already been there done that. To start with your structure is not going to cut it. Not even close unless you are going to be moving logs under a foot. The first thing is you need a A frame mounting to the back of the tractor. Heavy gauge 2 X 2 square tubing maybe. Very easy to fabricate. They are often mounted to the rear axles with some U bolts. If you can not find them make them at least two per side start with 1/2 '' or 3/4'' better. A high quality snatch block needs to be mounted at the top with at least 20,000 lbs capacity with no scrimping here. They can be fabricated in house with misc. junk yard stuff. It needs to have a shield around most of it so that the cable can not come off no matter what. Then the A frame needs to be braced which can be a pain because it could interfere with getting on and off the tractor so massive gussets might be a solution. BTW hydro units are easy to come up with both new and used. The clutch idea will not cut it either. Your set up will experience 10,000 lbs likely every time you get on your ride. A disk brake off of a motorcycle or car will be all you need for braking. To engage a belt or two will be the easiest to set up. Just a variable idle pulley will engage your power source. A electric air conditioner clutch times two would meet the torque requirements at the power source not the final drive. If you want to build your own winch which is not too tough but will have some fringe benefits in that you might want 200 feet of cable. Get some heavy wall tubing about 6'' diam. cut two end plates with 1 1/2'' holes stick your 1 1/2'' rod through those and weld it up for your drum. It does not have to be perfect because it will turn a hand full of RPMs. If you want to use sprockets that will work with some fabrication. Most skid steer tractors at least the order ones have sprockets that would meet your needs or use a 3/4t or larger rear end will work. I have seen the haft shafts used as a base for the spool. Remember these things turn slow so perfect precision is not needed. About 100 to 200 to one ratio will be in order depending on your power source not knowing any thing about your PTO capacity. When I use a skid steer tractor with a completely independent winch. I winch up to a landing then move the logs around with my Bobcat.

Ted, while I appreciate your input, I am confident that my base frame will be fine. I will however be adding some more material, you'll see as it progresses. I am only doing firewood for myself, not as a business.
I used a friends Igland on his Ford tractor last year and it worked great. I don't even have to winch a whole tree, i can cut them in half and in fact do just that from time to time. In my design there won't be any real machining, I am going to do this with off the shelf parts so that others can duplicate it fairly easily. The name brands make them all the way down to 3500 lbs and up to 16,000lbs
.
Kevin, point taken, I will go with the clutch disc from the Camaro then or even a Jeep one. I was just going for cheap...lol
Now that I understand a little more about how it will work I will definitely go bigger.

 

[dave_dj1]

I found this 1999 Ford Ranger clutch, off a 4.0
10" with 1" center
Rockauto M-Pact 381116 $34.89

 

[dancan]

the clutch on my 180 is basically a round disc with pockets that you stake in what looks like a small brake pad , 3 of them I think .

 

[dave_dj1]

OK so I stopped at a machinist a town over a direction of which I seldom go but knew of him, I was looking for the elusive 2.5" x .250" wall DOM tube (which he didn't have). He did have a great suggestion however, take a piece of 2.5" diameter x 8" long solid round bar and drill a 1 1/16" through it then bore the two ends to 1 1/4" by the depth of the bearing, to accept the needle bearings and machine in an internal c clip groove. He said the labor would be $65 bucks and the piece around $10. I think I will take this route, it will save me two welds on the ends of the tube welding in the two type x weld in hubs which would cost me $15 each plus tax and freight from SC. Overall it will give me a much heaver wall drum center and should eliminate the worry of the hubs shrinking after welding.
He made it sound so easy! I guess it is if that's your thing, I have never dealt with machine work to an accurate level I'm glad I stopped at his shop. I'm going to have do a 4" piece the same way for the drive sprocket axle shaft. Stay tuned, I've got to get back to him with the bearing specs.

 

[dave_dj1]

Which has more grip, a brake pad or a clutch disc? For my intended purpose? I was originally thinking about using about 5 or 6 brake discs bolted to the sprocket. This may be a viable option.

 

[dancan]

I dunno nuthin but if you look at any Scandi winch ipl you'll see that they're pretty basic but I can tell you from experience that they work .

 

[dave_dj1]

Small update. I ended up having a local machinist take a piece of 2.5" solid round bar 8 3/8" long and run a 1 1/8" hole through it then bore it to 1.25" diameter in about 1" on each end to accept the bearings. It was almost a wash money wise to pay him than to buy the DOM , the type x hub adapters and weld it all together then machine in a couple of internal snap ring grooves. It's all done in one strong package now and saved me two welds.

built a makeshift positioner out of some bearings I had for another project

Stay tuned

 

[dave_dj1]

Got my bearings from mcMaster Carr today, talk about quick service, I ordered them online Sunday evening

 

[dave_dj1]

I had a little shop time today
Got the PTO adapter welded to the 1" shaft for the drive sprocket, I had to grind down the 1" shaft where the splines were on the adapter, got it close and drove it home then welded it.

I also go the 14 tooth drive sprocket welded to the hub

Took a new snatch block from TSC and cut it off to make my top sheave and to have it pivot

I have some 7/8 solid bar that goes inside the pipe for a nice fit and swivel. I don't know what the metal on that snatch block is but it welded like crap! Plus I needed a new liner for the welder, finally put it on.

This is the drive sprocket and hub just so I have the part numbers documented

Any questions feel free to ask.

 

[dave_dj1]

I ordered some R16-2RS bearings from McMaster Carr last night for the drive sprocket shaft and for the driven sprocket.
I got a little bit done today.
I measured the ID of the bought type X hubs which was listed as 1 1/4", they were close. I checked my drum center that I had milled and it was a hair tight so I honed them out just a little, the bearings drove in nicely

I am putting up a picture of the way I intended to do the drum center so that if anyone wants to do it that way instead of having a piece milled it will be here as a reference for everybody.
This piece of 2 1/5" x .250 wall (2" ID) DOM is 5" long, you can make it whatever you like, the two type X hubs have 2" shoulders to fit into the DOM and have 1 1/4" centers to accept the needle bearings.

I got the top sheave mostly ready, it has to keep the cable on in all conditions so I did it similar to some store bought units. I will cut the nipple back to about a 1/2".

I cut a 3/4" piece of the 2 1/2" DOM and lined it up on the big sprocket hole, I am going to have two of the R16-2RS bearings in it, the sprocket is 3/8" thick and each bearing is 1/2".

The drive end will have a bearing in each end of the DOM, that shaft is all set waiting on the bearings.

I am contemplating just building a new frame and keep the one I have as a carry all type thing. I think it may be a little on the light side for pulling trees. Time and money will decide. I have some heavy wall 3/16" 1 1/2" x 3" rectangular tubing that I was going to use for my ROPS so I may use that for the frame and get some more material for the ROPS.

 

[dave_dj1]

Got my bearings from McMaster Carr (love that store, always quick shipping)
I got the bearings all in, ground the groove for the key in the shaft and got the drive shaft all assembled. I think the large sprocket is going to be pretty stout.
I am now thinking I may just order the same clutch disc that the Farmi winch uses that way at least I know it's a known set up. I'll look up the cost tonight, If my memory serves me right i don't think it was much more than a Camaro clutch disc.

Cut the nipple off for the cable.

I picked up the 11 gauge sheets today for my dump trailer so tomorrow I will be putting that back together

Damn rust belt!

 

[dave_dj1]

Small update, my steel got delayed but should be here tomorrow. I ordered the last of the pieces (I think) I ordered a clutch disc from RokAuto for a 94 Dodge truck, 1500, 318 v8, it's 26 bucks and then I ordered an idler sprocket for the back side of the chain (I was debating using one or not) it was $8.08 from The Big Bearing Store

Once I get my 2x6x3/16 tube I will go to town on it. I was in town today and saw a buddies winch, I took some closeups of the brake, the mount and took some overall measurements. His drum is only about 5.5" wide but I think I am going to be OK with 8" drum. I was surprised to see how sharp of an angle the PTO shaft was with the winch in the air, I assume you aren't running it when the winch is lifted? I will have to remember not to. Oh that reminds me, I will have to buy a PTO shaft as I don't have one...lol

 

[morewood]

You are dead on about the angle when picked up. I cringe at the idea of it binding up if I had it picked up and had weight on it. Put it on the ground and you alleviate two issues. No bad angle on the pto and no leverage used against you when pulling.

Shea

 

[Sawyer Rob]

The pto does NOT come out in the same place on the different models of winches, and they are used on many "different tractors" that have THEIR pto shafts coming out at different heights too...

SO, YOUR tractor may have a straighter drive line with that particular winch in the ground than it will on some another tractor...

You can't "generalize" on when the drive line will be straightest, in the ground or raised for all tractors.

SR

 

[dave_dj1]

Picked up two 4' pieces of 2x6x3/16 tube today

Left over 1/8 from my dump trailer floor project

My press brake I cobbled together a few years ago, the uprights are from an old camper frame. It has bent anything I have ever asked of it including some 3/8 x 6 flat bar that I made my 4 and 6 ways out of

The resulting piece, not perfect but it's pretty good.

I'll be back at it tomorrow. Stay tuned

 

[dave_dj1]

Finally feel like I got something accomplished today!
Picked up where I left off yesterday. Got the shaft in, everything set in place. Put in the uprights to hold the cross piece with the adjuster, put a new handle on the cam, i decided not to use the center cam I made earlier, I think two pieces will be fine. Cut the center out of the clutch, put the lower mounts on, put the mount for the sheave on top. It was nice to see the drum and everything it it's place for the first time

Like a new father

Broom lives matter

Access to the bolt that will hold the cross piece with the adjuster on

Top sheave mount

I still have to drill out some rivets and get some longer ones to hold the clutch on to the sprocket. Or should I bolt it on with some 1/4" flatheads?

 

[Alu]

This looks fun, keep on the Good work !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[dave_dj1]

Small update:
Got an old 7.5' Fisher plow from a buddy, I cut out what I needed for my blade.
I got it tacked on after work today.
I don't have a lot of pictures as Imgur was acting up yesterday. I did get the chain cut to length, still have to install the idler pulley.
I got the handle sort of figured out for the clutch, I had it all mocked up, I think I can start to paint parts of it

Stay tuned, more coming soon