Loggers... Adapt and overcome?

[slowp]

Here's some things you need to know to bid on that sale.
It is a lump sum sale, you'll have to pay for it in advance of logging. The volume is based on the cruise, so you'll need to work your bid depending on how accurate you think the cruise is.

Up front, you'll need $100 to bid on the sale. That's the bid guarantee. You get that back if you don't get the sale. If you get the sale, that money goes towards the purchase. It looks like you'll also need(check on this with those guys please because it reads differently than out here) $50 for road maintenance, $50 for slash disposal, a 10% downpayment of the advertised value of the sale (looks like that would be around $38) PLUS 20% of what you bid over that rate. The downpayment is held until 25% of the value of the sale is removed, then you can use it either to make a payment or you can get it back.

Looks like there is an operating restriction. #7 on the bottom. You can't using trails or roads within 2 and a half tree lengths of Glacier Institute roads and trails (whatever that is) May 1 to Oct. 31. Sounds like they don't want ground disturbance there.

The minimum piece size that you are required to remove to is 4" dbh, 8' long to a 3 inch top and it has to be half sound.

To convert ccf to mbf roughly divide the ccf by 2. There is around 10 CCF on a log truck or 5 mbf.

I'd still pay a visit to the district and look at the contract and ask them questions. We're supposed to have some uniformity but there are still differences and I don't know about Glacier Institutes--does that mean you'd have to log on snow? Or are they afraid of getting trees dropped on the Institutees?

Yuck, I had to use reading glasses to read that small print--and it was still hard to read.

 

[forestryworks]

You know it would break my heart to have to camp all summer, and drop trees all day!! LOL

that sounds like fun

 

[funky sawman]

It looks like yarder ground to me, Does that job allow yarders or just ground tractor logging?

 

[Metals406]

Here's some things you need to know to bid on that sale.
It is a lump sum sale, you'll have to pay for it in advance of logging. The volume is based on the cruise, so you'll need to work your bid depending on how accurate you think the cruise is.

Up front, you'll need $100 to bid on the sale. That's the bid guarantee. You get that back if you don't get the sale. If you get the sale, that money goes towards the purchase. It looks like you'll also need(check on this with those guys please because it reads differently than out here) $50 for road maintenance, $50 for slash disposal, a 10% downpayment of the advertised value of the sale (looks like that would be around $38) PLUS 20% of what you bid over that rate. The downpayment is held until 25% of the value of the sale is removed, then you can use it either to make a payment or you can get it back.

Looks like there is an operating restriction. #7 on the bottom. You can't using trails or roads within 2 and a half tree lengths of Glacier Institute roads and trails (whatever that is) May 1 to Oct. 31. Sounds like they don't want ground disturbance there.

The minimum piece size that you are required to remove to is 4" dbh, 8' long to a 3 inch top and it has to be half sound.

To convert ccf to mbf roughly divide the ccf by 2. There is around 10 CCF on a log truck or 5 mbf.

I'd still pay a visit to the district and look at the contract and ask them questions. We're supposed to have some uniformity but there are still differences and I don't know about Glacier Institutes--does that mean you'd have to log on snow? Or are they afraid of getting trees dropped on the Institutees?

Yuck, I had to use reading glasses to read that small print--and it was still hard to read.

The Glacier Institute thing is because the two sections to be logged border (literally) Glacier National Park. Prime Grizzle Bear country, with a healthy mixing of Mountain Lion and Wolves. Mmmmm, wolves... My favorite.

The whole road and trail thing could turn out to be a huge pain in the ass too. I'm going to ask and see if I can do a 'Payment Unit' to cover the upfront costs? We'll see though.

Thanks for all the info slowp!!

 

[funky sawman]

It says on that paper the average DBH is 4.9---is that inches I assume? If so that is very small wood and would require the use of a firewood processer to make any money on this sale.

 

[Metals406]

It looks like yarder ground to me, Does that job allow yarders or just ground tractor logging?

It's not all that bad... That picture is a bit deceiving. A skidder or Cat could navigate most of it... Lot's of roads in the area to use too.

A forwarder would be kick butt on this one!

 

[Metals406]

It says on that paper the average DBH is 4.9---is that inches I assume? If so that is very small wood and would require the use of a firewood processer to make any money on this sale.

Yeah, I don't know? I know the area, and the stuff I've seen would average closer to 12-15 IMO... With some Bigger stuff scattered through.

Might not be worth bidding at all... A guys gonna have to drive up there and walk it to see what it's going to take.

According to slowp's rough estimate (based on the prospectus's rough estimate LOL)... There's 38-39 truckloads to come out'a there.

Average 12 cords a load... $150.00 a cord retail... $69,300.00. Even if you lost 2/3 to expenses... $23,000.00 for 3 months work?

I know they're just numbers... But I'd take less than that for 3 months pay. I'm a simple guy, with simple means.

 

[Metals406]

that sounds like fun

 

[funky sawman]

Sure wish the forest cirkus would do somthing like that in Idaho. Anyways Nate, I am jealous. Nice to see you gots some prospects going.

 

[Metals406]

Sure wish the forest cirkus would do somthing like that in Idaho. Anyways Nate, I am jealous. Nice to see you gots some prospects going.

Well hell Forrest, you're just down the street... Come chop some stuff down with me for a month this summer.

And Idaho would have more stuff like this... You just need more catastrophic wild fires... Who's got some matches? LOL

 

[funky sawman]

That size timber would be a blast to cut with a 242 or 346 husky. I asked the forest cirkus about small sales and they just tell me to pound sand because the envirocrats are suing them for everything the do and the fact that it takes a log truck load of logs turned into paper for the sale to take place. The ranger told my to try the state office but they have no sales yet.

Firewood is still a thriving market here but I too see the prices dropping due to high supply-----that wont keep me from cutten'. I'll even cut for gas and food and dont care about much profit. I have cut firewood for full time work before and made enough money to buy saws, and eat out every night with the ole lady and still had money for dessert. The main thing to firewood success is getting the most amount of wood out of the woods with the least amount of fuel for the truck, Hence bigger truck that hauls more wood per turn and or a trailer, this will keep overhead cost down.

 

[Metals406]

That size timber would be a blast to cut with a 242 or 346 husky. I asked the forest cirkus about small sales and they just tell me to pound sand because the envirocrats are suing them for everything the do and the fact that it takes a log truck load of logs turned into paper for the sale to take place. The ranger told my to try the state office but they have no sales yet.

Firewood is still a thriving market here but I too see the prices dropping due to high supply-----that wont keep me from cutten'. I'll even cut for gas and food and dont care about much profit. I have cut firewood for full time work before and made enough money to buy saws, and eat out every night with the ole lady and still had money for dessert. The main thing to firewood success is getting the most amount of wood out of the woods with the least amount of fuel for the truck, Hence bigger truck that hauls more wood per turn and or a trailer, this will keep overhead cost down.

My cousin John has 3 logging trucks just sitting there... I have 18 acres to stage the wood on. The biggest problem I see is the logistics of selling said wood in a timely manner... And how many dudes will I bid against on this sale? I'm thinking there's gonna be a lot of competition on this one.

I think I'll head to the FS on Tuesday to see whats up.

I wonder if there's any more of this going on around the country?

 

[funky sawman]

It might also be an option of selling truck loads of logs. Are those trucks self loaders?

 

[Metals406]

It might also be an option of selling truck loads of logs. Are those trucks self loaders?

I wish... I could always buy a loader and fit it on one of the trucks?.. Seems to me a local yard had a loader or two for sale off the truck.

Last time I paid for a load of logs, the guy charged me $260 bucks to load them, and run them roughly 80-100 miles... He had a self loader.

My buddies excavator's just sitting idle... I could probably get him to let it sit here, and use it to unload? Throw him a bone for the use and fuel?

I dunno? Lot's to calculate and figure.

You're right, selling at log length, by the truck, would definitely make it easier.

 

[funky sawman]

It looked like most of the timber on that sale is lodgepole pine, which I consider decient wood. A guy could mix the larch and other species to make the firewood selling price more. What is firewood going for over their? If it is smaller wood you dont have to split it so that's less work. How many miles is it from a major city?

 

[spencerhenry]

that sounds like a post and pole sale. you will get way more out of poles than firewood. i get timber sale notices frequently but in this log market i wont cut it unless i get paid to cut it and take the logs also. to buy the timber around here is foolish, there is plenty of private property that can be cut for free. but you still have to sell the logs. i just bought a load of big dry lodgepole, butts up to 20" delivered with a self loader was $2000. the small stuff like poles goes for about $1500 right now. but the end market? no one is buying in quantity. big spruce, now that is something that may still have a market, we will have to see what happens to that this summer.

 

[Metals406]

that sounds like a post and pole sale. you will get way more out of poles than firewood. i get timber sale notices frequently but in this log market i wont cut it unless i get paid to cut it and take the logs also. to buy the timber around here is foolish, there is plenty of private property that can be cut for free. but you still have to sell the logs. i just bought a load of big dry lodgepole, butts up to 20" delivered with a self loader was $2000. the small stuff like poles goes for about $1500 right now. but the end market? no one is buying in quantity. big spruce, now that is something that may still have a market, we will have to see what happens to that this summer.

Post and pole is in the toilet here as well... One of the surviving mills here is looking for a lot of Piss Fir this summer... I haven't heard about anyone wanting spruce.

I think firewood will be the best seller... Lot's of folks here (and everywhere) are switching back to wood for heat because it's cheap... Especially when you don't have a job--and the power or gas company can't take your heat away.

I'll have to check this sale out more thoroughly, to see if a guy can make a dollar or two?

 

[slowp]

Here is a site that starts the vortex of contracting information. Not Timber Sale, but other types. Scroll down and click on what you might be interested in.
http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/purchasing/

 

[Metals406]

Here is a site that starts the vortex of contracting information. Not Timber Sale, but other types. Scroll down and click on what you might be interested in.
http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/purchasing/

Thanks again slowp... You're the tops for looking for me.

I'm going in to the FS tomorrow to go over every detail of the sale. There's a commercial firewood processor in the valley, and if he'd buy all the timber in tree length, this just might be worth doing.

Either way, I'd have to have some operating capitol (LOC) from my bank... And if they said no, then I wouldn't be able to do it anyway.

 

[Metals406]

Well, I've been on the phone all day looking into this sale. There's a mill that'll buy it all for $35.00 a ton (pulp)... But the haul is 280 miles round trip. The trucks gonna want 400-500 bucks per haul... And he can probably only get 18 ton on per load cause this is all dry fire kill.

It's not looking great, but it doesn't mean it's not worth doing yet.

I have a call in to a firewood processor that would take all the white wood... I'm waiting for him to call me back, and let me know what he pays a ton? He'd be waaaay closer to haul to.

I talked with the the guy I use, with the self loader--for like a hour. He said all the loggers he knows aren't working at all, and one guy was talking about trying to go to Washington to log for Weyerhaeuser.

I called Plum Creek and the Forester/buyer said he didn't even know if they'd buy any wood this year at all!!

More research is needed to see If I could maybe make a buck or two for 3 months or so of work?